Albert Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Ghost vs Monster: Does it really matter? No. ..Al 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+darryl1970 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Not at all if there's hard feelings over it. Pac-Man was my first obsession. I was upset when Atari changed everything around, as were many of my friends. I got excited when I saw a couple comments like, "I wish I could like this X amount of times. . ", as well as people stating they hadn't noticed that before I shared the bezel image. Again. I didn't mean anything as argumentative or disrespectful if it was came across that way. I am assuming it may have been perceived by some as that. The last thing I'd want to do is cause hard feelings in this forum, because we all share something in common to be here. Additionally, I don't want to take away from this great conversion anymore, but didn't want anybody to think I was trying to be a jerk. It was just me getting excited about my childhood passion. I got caught up in the moment and didn't realize how it may have come across. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 For the record… they're actually Jell-O. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yell0w_lantern Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Very impressive - especially considering it is 4k. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 For the record… they're actually Jell-O. vintage_jello_2.jpg When their edible, they taste like marshmallows. Mmmm, yummy. Pass the Smores, plz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 It was not solved above as "ghosts". I said that I respect that point, but it is plastered "monster" on every arcade machine; thus, we should stick to the arcade experience, even if that may be a mistranslation. It is the history of the game, The US history to be precise. Other countries translated correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Toru Iwatani called them ghosts, monsters, ghost-shaped monsters, and ghostly enemies in this interview: programmersatwork.wordpress.com/toru-iwatani-1986-pacman-designer/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) The interview was "conducted in Japanese, with Mr. Leach acting as the interpreter". Edited October 10, 2014 by Thomas Jentzsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I'm sure there's a compromise to be had here. How about calling them "Mhosts" or "Ghonsters"? Or we could modernize with "The Dearly-Departed" or "Living-Challenged". In all seriousness, I think there's solid arguments for going with Ghosts or Monsters, so it comes down DINTAR816's whim. Stellar work here, DINTAR816, no matter what your final decision is on the naming. The fact that people are debating minor details shows how much we love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+darryl1970 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) The US history to be precise. Other countries translated correct. That's cool. I am not referring to what inspired the characters, I am going by the instruction cards that are found on the actual arcade units. To me that is what makes history. Although almost all of the historical sites use the term Ghosts, because that has become popular. I always believed it was because the Atari version became so popular. In fact, it was the only version that some people have played. Additionally, as much as Pac-Man purists despise that version, some people prefer it, because it was the only version they played as a child. I am just glad that people don't refer to the dots as "Video Wafers!" haha! As for the arcade machines, I have only seen three instruction cards. The US, the Euro cocktail, and the Japanese card. The first two used the English translation of "monster", and the Android Google Translator app translated a word on the Japanese card to "monster" also; So, I personally like to stick to the actual arcade machine as reference, not how it was translated in other literature -- even if that literature follows the inspiration of the character. In the end, I figure they became what they were presented as. I do enjoy the history of the inspiration and stuff. I also see you're from Germany, so I am sure our childhood experiences may differ. It's kind of cool to think that we wouldn't have even been able to discuss this back when the game was popular, unless we found each other in a penpal magazine or something. lol. I have only been able to find ARCADE instruction cards translated in English or Japanese. I assumed that Germany got the "Puck-Man" version, which I believe was used in Europe. All of the cards I found used the translation Monster. I even tried to Google, "Pac-Man arcade german bezel", and I couldn't find any with German language on them. However, I did find a Puck-Man service manual in German. The arcade service manual (see below) even used the term "Monster". On the other hand, EVERY site for arcade history uses the term "Ghosts". In fact, I think Namco has started using "Ghosts" in some manuals. They do look like Ghosts (or at least like they have colored sheets over themselves). As a "Monster" purist, I used to argue that a ghost couldn't have their outfit torn, as in the 2nd and 3rd intermission. They wouldn't have a fleshy foot!.. lol. I am just sharing my "logic" from back in Junior High School, when that was an important issue... lol. I do enjoy this subject. Is there a way to move all of the "ghost/monster" threads to their own topic? I think it's a great piece for Pac-Man history, but it's pretty much played out, unless somebody has images of arcade bezels in other languages, where it was translated differently. I wouldn't want to create a thread just to repeat everything that was here.. lol. However, I do not want to take up much more space in this thread. Then it could be a really cool piece of Pac-Man history to preserve and collaborate on. It is pretty cool all of the different images I did manage to find: Cool Puck-Man. It's English, but laid out like the Japanese card. Japanese Instruction Card (Namco DS version?) Puck-Man in English? Check out the German manual! I was looking through the manual, and it does actually use the term "monster" for the arcade service manual! HEY!!!! I found the old thread. I had forgotten about it.. This is where it belongs!!! http://atariage.com/forums/topic/140569-pac-mans-enemies-ghosts-monsters-ghost-monsters/ (YES! My side is not the popular vote.. haha.. but I still say the ARCADE machine SHOULD define history!) Edited October 10, 2014 by darryl1970 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+darryl1970 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) I'm sure there's a compromise to be had here. How about calling them "Mhosts" or "Ghonsters"? Or we could modernize with "The Dearly-Departed" or "Living-Challenged". In all seriousness, I think there's solid arguments for going with Ghosts or Monsters, so it comes down DINTAR816's whim. Stellar work here, DINTAR816, no matter what your final decision is on the naming. The fact that people are debating minor details shows how much we love it. AMEN!! That's what this site is about. We are all able to step back to 13 again and remember what made us love these game. (I got to share my OCD... lol) This version is awesome, and Pac-Man is one of the greatest games ever IMHO. Many of the newer games have elements of Pac-Man (as well as Donkey Kong!). There were no "SAMPLES" back in the day. These games made sounds that had never existed before the game. I have played around with the Pokey on my 800xl, and I am blown away by the closeness in reproducing these sounds on the TIA! STELLAR WORK! Edited October 10, 2014 by darryl1970 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+darryl1970 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 The interview was "conducted in Japanese, with Mr. Leach acting as the interpreter". I read that. It was interesting. I have heard that people argue Mr. Leach's translation. I think not knowing adds to the mystery of what he intended. Although you shared that story "Ghost" was an inspiration. Hard to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+darryl1970 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Very impressive - especially considering it is 4k. In all fairness to Todd Frye and other classic 2600 programmers, they were in a serious time crunch, and they didn't have the tools that we have today. Don't quote me, but I think I recall that changes had to be made, and then they had to upload their changes from a mainframe to debug. They didn't have the instant gratification or fast PC's with Stella back then. It must have been a pain in the butt to wait to see the fruits of one's labor. These newer conversions always make me think of how BLOWN my mind would have been back in the day. I think programming techniques have gotten better in the years, but I also try to realize that the tools were not so great back then either. With all the 32k 2600 homebrew, I can't help but think they would have been NEO GEO priced back in the day.. lol. However, this game really bridges that gap, because 4k was totally doable. The only limitation might have been the development environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Regarding ghosts vs. monsters.. at the end of the day it's nothing ever referenced in the actual video game itself, so no worries. Maybe in any potential instructions booklet, but hey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 How about Monster Ghost or Ghost Monster? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian O Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 How about Monster Ghost or Ghost Monster? This works for me. As a kid, I always said 'ghost monsters' or 'ghosts'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+darryl1970 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) Regarding ghosts vs. monsters.. at the end of the day it's nothing ever referenced in the actual video game itself, so no worries. Maybe in any potential instructions booklet, but hey. Not on screen, but it was on every arcade cabinet with actual Pac-Man or Puck-Man graphics. EDIT: I meant ARTWORK.. Even though I am a stickler about what was presented in the arcades, I want to be clear that I still will accept Mario as the main character in Donkey Kong, as long as a reference is made to him as "Mario * Formerly known as Jumpman"... Ha.. Just kidding. I am not THAT OCD.. Edited October 10, 2014 by darryl1970 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Yeah, the Ghosts vs Monsters debate is roughly equivalent to the Mario vs Jumpman debate in Donkey Kong. Monsters / Jumpman may have been plastered on the original Pacman / Donkey Kong arcade marquees, but everyone today knows them as Ghosts / Mario. Even Namco / Nintendo changed their literature to reflect this change in future console ports. Edited October 11, 2014 by stardust4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+darryl1970 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Yeah, the Ghosts vs Monsters debate is roughly equivalent to the Mario vs Jumpman debate in Donkey Kong. Monsters / Jumpman may have been plastered on the original Pacman / Donkey Kong arcade marquees, but everyone today knows them as Ghosts / Mario. Even Namco / Nintendo changed their literature to reflect this change in future console ports. Similar, but not the same. Mario just didn't have a name yet. Donkey Kong Junior just revealed his name. Monsters were always monsters in the arcade. I think Namco changed caved for two reasons: 1. The world had been brainwashed by Atari and the cartoons. 2. A younger generation took over at Namco, and they weren't authentic "old school"gamers. They are like a hair metal band trying to emulate Van Halen when it comes to the classics. Lol. (None the less, Namco has a lot of talent) That's just me being a "grumpy old man." lol.. "Back in my day we didn't have polygons and texture maps!" This is a little off the subject, but this subject made me think back. I had a friend that called Mario "Little Luigi" before Mario Bros came out. I wonder where she got her clarvoyance! Edited October 11, 2014 by darryl1970 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Awesome game. Can't wait to see the final product. GREAT job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+darryl1970 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Awesome game. Can't wait to see the final product. GREAT job! Hey! Had an idea for the third intermission. How about just change the color of the monster to peach when it comes out from the left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Awesome game. Can't wait to see the final product. GREAT job! I always thought those intermission sequences where Blinky ripped his costume were a bit weird. I always thought the "naked" ghost looked like a squirrel! Edited October 11, 2014 by stardust4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I always thought those intermission sequences where Blinky ripped his costume were a bit weird. I always thought the "naked" ghost looked like a squirrel! Ghosts are just empty sheets, so there would be no flesh underneath. Thus, the intermissions offer definitive proof that they are indeed "monsters". 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+darryl1970 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Maybe like a squirrel monster, since ghosts don't have legs. Lol Seriously though, in 1981, I remember drawing pictures of that in study hall, and I swore there was stubble on his leg. . And I thought the naked one had whiskers. .. I'm assuming it was the pixel pattern in the crt,because the pixels also give Donkey Kong a fur look on the original Sanyo CRT. I always thought those intermission sequences where Blinky ripped his costume were a bit weird. I always thought the "naked" ghost looked like a squirrel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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