Two Versions of Translator disk?

[+Allan]

I got this document from a bunch of stuff I got from eBay. I didn't know Atari had two versions of the Translator disk. Does anybody have an image of one or both of these? I always thought there was just one version.

 

Allan

 

Translator.pdf

[russg]

I got this document from a bunch of stuff I got from eBay. I didn't know Atari had two versions of the Translator disk. Does anybody have an image of one or both of these? I always thought there was just one version.

 

Allan

There are 'A' and 'B' versions, to load 800 OS A and 800 OS B. I think I have both.

XLATOR-A.ATR

XLATOR-B.ATR

[+Allan]

Thanks, Russg.

 

Allan

 

[a8isa1]

There are 'A' and 'B' versions, to load 800 OS A and 800 OS B. I think I have both.

Are there any known programs that require OS A? I mean programs that not don't work with XL/XE OS but also don't work with OS B.

[+CharlieChaplin]

Are there any known programs that require OS A? I mean programs that not don't work with XL/XE OS but also don't work with OS B.

 

Yes,

 

take a look here: http://a8.fandal.cz/search.php?search=OS-A&butt_details_x=x

Afaik there are even some more programs.

[russg]

Are there any known programs that require OS A? I mean programs that not don't work with XL/XE OS but also don't work with OS B.

I may be wrong about Translators A and B.

Here's from the A8FAQ......

 

'The Translator disk is a two-sided disk, providing two slightly different

versions of the Translator. The Side A Translator provides a version of the

400/800 OS that is slightly modified to allow the [RESET] key to be pressed

without reverting to the XL/XE OS on ROM. The Side B Translator provides an

even higher degree of compatibility, including support for programs that boot

the 850 interface, but the 400/800 OS in RAM would be disabled if the [RESET]

key is pressed.

Atari shipped two versions of the Translator disk:

- Atari Translator DX5063 NTSC version: 400/800 OS Rev.B/NTSC

- Atari Translator FK100807 PAL version: 400/800 OS Rev.A/PAL'

 

I just tested XLATORA and XLATOR B in 800XL. Both return 0 in PEEK(58383), which means both are 800 OS B.

I have a 800 OS A and it returns a 56 on PEEK(58383) in a real 800, like it should and has the 'A' after the 12499 chip.

800 OS 'A' is the older OS and has a few problems 'B' fixes. But the XLATOR disks, 'A' and 'B' are both 'B' OS ROM.

 

The FAQ also lists programs that don't run on XL/XE and require the translator disk.

There is no mention in the FAQ about A and B compatibility.

The FAQ doesn't distinguish between A and B versions.

I know there are A and B ROMs for the 800.

It seems there may also be NTSC and PAL translators.

I'm sure the XLATOR that I have are NTSC.

Edited August 29, 2014 by russg

[a8isa1]

I may be wrong about Translators A and B.

Here's from the A8FAQ......

 

'The Translator disk is a two-sided disk, providing two slightly different

versions of the Translator. The Side A Translator provides a version of the

400/800 OS that is slightly modified to allow the [RESET] key to be pressed

without reverting to the XL/XE OS on ROM. The Side B Translator provides an

even higher degree of compatibility, including support for programs that boot

the 850 interface, but the 400/800 OS in RAM would be disabled if the [RESET]

key is pressed.

Atari shipped two versions of the Translator disk:

- Atari Translator DX5063 NTSC version: 400/800 OS Rev.B/NTSC

- Atari Translator FK100807 PAL version: 400/800 OS Rev.A/PAL'

 

I just tested XLATORA and XLATOR B in 800XL. Both return 0 in PEEK(58383), which means both are 800 OS B.

I have a 800 OS A and it returns a 56 on PEEK(58383) in a real 800, like it should and has the 'A' after the 12499 chip.

800 OS 'A' is the older OS and has a few problems 'B' fixes. But the XLATOR disks, 'A' and 'B' are both 'B' OS ROM.

 

The FAQ also lists programs that don't run on XL/XE and require the translator disk.

There is no mention in the FAQ about A and B compatibility.

The FAQ doesn't distinguish between A and B versions.

I know there are A and B ROMs for the 800.

It seems there may also be NTSC and PAL translators.

I'm sure the XLATOR that I have are NTSC.

Thanks Russg.

 

I'm sure the OS A translator will show up again. In the meantime I know the OS A ROM image is available and I seem to recall a utility to make your own translator. It was called "Homemade Translator" or "Homebrew Translator" or something similar.

Edited August 29, 2014 by a8isa1

[BillC]

Thanks Russg.

 

I'm sure the OS A translator will show up again. In the meantime I know the OS A ROM image is available and I seem to recall a utility to make your own translator. It was called "Homemade Translator" or "Homebrew Translator" or something similar.

Homemade translator available at: http://www.atarimax.com/flashcart/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1212

 

The poster mentions using it in the Atari++ emulator, so it should be easy to easy to use a version A ROM file to create a version A Translator disc.

[russg]

Thanks Russg.

 

I'm sure the OS A translator will show up again. In the meantime I know the OS A ROM image is available and I seem to recall a utility to make your own translator. It was called "Homemade Translator" or "Homebrew Translator" or something similar.

That 'Homemade Translator' is from ANALOG 32 I think. Angelo Giambra. It is apparently for OS B only, that's what the article says.

[+MrFish]

On a related note, I know one program which will only run with BASIC Rev. A. ESI Instedit (and probably the APX version too) boots up and looks like everything is fine under Revs B and C, until you start to edit a character. Then, as you click to change pixels, it starts to mangle your character. I don't think the OS version matters though.

Edited August 30, 2014 by MrFish

[russg]

That 'Homemade Translator' is from ANALOG 32 I think. Angelo Giambra. It is apparently for OS B only, that's what the article says.

It is tough to tell if the translators I've been working with are correct. I only know OS B is supposed to give a 0 at 58383 and OS A a 56. I'm assuming the XLATOR-A and XLATOR-B

I posted here of OS B translators are correct,

just slight difference in code to protect erasure from a RESET.

However Translator OS-A returns a 249 at 58383, both in emulator and on a real 800XL.

Atari800winplus, selecting OS A machine type gives a 56, as does a real 800 with OS A 10K card.

I can't find a 800 OS A translator that is correct using a real or emulated 800XL.

That Translator OS-A .ATR has DOS.SYS, DUP.SYS, ANDRU.BAS, BACKUP.OBJ and QB.OBJ files.

I dumped the OS A from my 800 to a file and CRC32 agrees with the ATARIOSA ROM that comes with A800WP and is used in Altirra, so I'm sure

the OSA ROM I have is correct.

I can't find a program to make a Translator disk from a real 800, the HOME program in issue 32 ANALOG is only for OS B.

No big problem, I just wanted to complete the translators with a good OS A one.

If I can find where the ROM is in Translator OS-A.ATR, I could substitute a correct one.

Edited August 30, 2014 by russg

[a8isa1]

It is tough to tell if the translators I've been working with are correct. I only know OS B is supposed to give a 0 at 58383 and OS A a 56. I'm assuming the XLATOR-A and XLATOR-B

I posted here of OS B translators are correct,

just slight difference in code to protect erasure from a RESET.

However Translator OS-A returns a 249 at 58383, both in emulator and on a real 800XL.

Atari800winplus, selecting OS A machine type gives a 56, as does a real 800 with OS A 10K card.

I can't find a 800 OS A translator that is correct using a real or emulated 800XL.

That Translator OS-A .ATR has DOS.SYS, DUP.SYS, ANDRU.BAS, BACKUP.OBJ and QB.OBJ files.

I dumped the OS A from my 800 to a file and CRC32 agrees with the ATARIOSA ROM that comes with A800WP and is used in Altirra, so I'm sure

the OSA ROM I have is correct.

I can't find a program to make a Translator disk from a real 800, the HOME program in issue 32 ANALOG is only for OS B.

No big problem, I just wanted to complete the translators with a good OS A one.

If I can find where the ROM is in Translator OS-A.ATR, I could substitute a correct one.

I found an OS A translator. It's titled, "Atari OS-A Disk & Cassette Translator", and it was created by Witold Trenkler.

[russg]

I found an OS A translator. It's titled, "Atari OS-A Disk & Cassette Translator", and it was created by Witold Trenkler.

That's great! Thanks. It gives a 249 at PEEK 58383 like the Translator OS=A I have, I guess that's the way it is supposed to do.

[Kr0tki]

Some clarification: PEEK(58383) returns 0 on an NTSC rev. B, 56 on an NTSC rev. A, and 249 on PAL rev. A. Therefore, This Witold Trenkler's translator contains a modified PAL OS-A ROM. (Nb. checking 58383 is a bad way to determine OS revision, as all XL OS-es also have 0 there; the correct way is to check values at $FCD8, $FFF8, $FFF9 as described in the Atari OS Manual - XL Addendum p. 28.)

 

I doubt that Atari manufactured an rev. A Translator for NTSC systems. The OS-B was available in the US fairly early, so the chances of commercial software requiring rev. A OS are practically none in that region. On the other hand, OS-A was everything we got in Europe, as there was no PAL rev. B released. So there's a higher chance that European software would work on OS-A only.

 

Note that all software that requires OS-A from the link provided by CharlieChaplin, originates from the UK or Germany.

 

The PAL version of Atari Translator (only side A) is downloadable here - choose "Translator.xfd". It contains a PAL rev. A OS.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Kr0tki

[+Allan]

Here is B & C's auction for an original translator disk and as you can see it's got both versions on the disk. Anybody have this actually disk? I want to put a copy on Atarimania but I want to make sure sure it's an original copy and not something that has been modified.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-Translator-Disk-A-B-800XL-130XE-65XE-XEGM-810-1050-Atari-NEW-/141374485030?pt=US_Other_Video_Game_Accessories&hash=item20ea937226

 

russg, did your copy come from an original disk or something that you had on your computer from one of the large collections out on the Net?

 

 

Allan

 

[bandit]

This is the disk Atari mailed me way back, I have a couple of them . two sides.

 

Picture of disk

TRANSAB.ZIP

Edited September 2, 2014 by bandit

[+Allan]

Thanks, Bandit.

 

Can you get a more strait on picture of the disk or better yet a scan of it so I can put a picture of it on Atarimania.com?

 

Allan

 

[russg]

Here is B & C's auction for an original translator disk and as you can see it's got both versions on the disk. Anybody have this actually disk? I want to put a copy on Atarimania but I want to make sure sure it's an original copy and not something that has been modified.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-Translator-Disk-A-B-800XL-130XE-65XE-XEGM-810-1050-Atari-NEW-/141374485030?pt=US_Other_Video_Game_Accessories&hash=item20ea937226

 

russg, did your copy come from an original disk or something that you had on your computer from one of the large collections out on the Net?

 

 

Allan

 

The original .ATRs I posted (XLATOR-A.ATR and XLATOR-B.ATR) give the same loading 'TRANSLATOR' and Fuji on a gold screen that my floppy copies gave.

I don't think I actually dumped my floppy, side A and B, so it did probably come from Holmes, CTH or other source.

Back when the translator originally came out, I got a copy from a lady in the Atari user group, so my original floppy isn't an original direct from Atari, but I don't

believe it has been modified.....

..... I found my original floppy with translator on it. I was like you, Allan, I didn't know there were A and B versions. I only had one translator disk.

So, definitely, the translator A and B I posted are from someone's collection (CTH, Holmes most likely). I learned about the A and B versions by

reading the A8 FAQ about them just recently.

Edited September 2, 2014 by russg

[+Allan]

Here's a new entry on Atarimania.com

 

http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-400-800-xl-xe-translator-_29943.html

 

There was one up for the PAL version but not even an entry for the NTSC version (until now.) I need to get the year though. I think I see a copyright year on Bandits pic but it is to blurry to see which one.

 

Allan

 

[Kr0tki]

Here is B & C's auction for an original translator disk and as you can see it's got both versions on the disk. Anybody have this actually disk? I want to put a copy on Atarimania but I want to make sure sure it's an original copy and not something that has been modified.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-Translator-Disk-A-B-800XL-130XE-65XE-XEGM-810-1050-Atari-NEW-/141374485030?pt=US_Other_Video_Game_Accessories&hash=item20ea937226

Fascinating, so there actually exists a Translator with NTSC OS-A!

 

Summing things up, there seem to be three different releases of the Atari Translator:

#1. The one with NTSC rev. A and NTSC rev. B on different sides of the disk (as seen on eBay, not yet dumped);

#2. The one with both sides being NTSC rev. B, but differing in Side A being reset-proof (as posted by russg and bandit; the disk images posted by both of them are virtually identical, apart from the empty sectors, which are filled with $1a bytes in bandit's dump and $00 in russg's dump);

#3. The PAL equivalent of #2, with PAL rev. A on both sides instead (only Side A dumped).

 

Out of curiosity, bandit, what utility have you used to dump the disk?

[russg]

The original .ATRs I posted (XLATOR-A.ATR and XLATOR-B.ATR) give the same loading 'TRANSLATOR' and Fuji on a gold screen that my floppy copies gave.

I don't think I actually dumped my floppy, side A and B, so it did probably come from Holmes, CTH or other source.

Back when the translator originally came out, I got a copy from a lady in the Atari user group, so my original floppy isn't an original direct from Atari, but I don't

believe it has been modified.....

..... I found my original floppy with translator on it. I was like you, Allan, I didn't know there were A and B versions. I only had one translator disk.

So, definitely, the translator A and B I posted are from someone's collection (CTH, Holmes most likely). I learned about the A and B versions by

reading the A8 FAQ about them just recently.

I tested XLATOR-A.ATR and XLATOR-B.ATR that I first posted. The main difference I see is that A stays the same after RESET and

B re-boots. Both A and B are the OS B of the 800.

I didn't read the OS manual, but I did read $FCD8, $FFF8 and $FFF9. The results were:

Stock 800XL no translator first, second, third locations 76,140,108.

with XLATOR-A, it reads 162,243,230 and stays the same after reset

with XLATOR-B the same as A, but re-boots with RESET.

[bandit]

Thanks, Bandit.

 

Can you get a more strait on picture of the disk or better yet a scan of it so I can put a picture of it on Atarimania.com?

 

Allan

[Kr0tki]

I didn't read the OS manual, but I did read $FCD8, $FFF8 and $FFF9.

The XL Addendum I mentioned is downloadable, if you're interested. I didn't mean to suggest that you made any mistake. Your results definitely prove that both your images are NTSC rev. B.

[Kr0tki]

#1. The one with NTSC rev. A and NTSC rev. B on different sides of the disk (as seen on eBay, not yet dumped);

Come to think of it, it's possible that the label on that eBay disk is a replacement made by B&C, which is simply erroneous, and the disk might be in fact identical to the other ones, ie. no NTSC rev. A. It surely doesn't look like a typical Atari label. Edited September 2, 2014 by Kr0tki

[russg]

The XL Addendum I mentioned is downloadable, if you're interested. I didn't mean to suggest that you made any mistake. Your results definitely prove that both your images are NTSC rev. B.

I may download it.

But to make Allan unhappy, here's the CRC32 of all the Translators I have collected over the past few days. I think part of it may not be that they are different when loaded, but

maybe have slightly different .ATR headers.

(Make Allan unhappy because there are almost no agreement of CRC32)

 

TRAN_A.ATR ------------- 003CB47C

TRAN_B.ATR ------------- 61AC5D7

Translator OS-A.atr ---- 39DC1BB2

Translator OS-B.atr ---- 54F2F5FC

Translator Pal OSA.atr - 26292C79

Translator PAL.atr ----- E493F8FE

Translators.atr -------- E137BE88

XLATOR-A.ATR ----------- 542A902E

XLATOR-B.ATR ----------- 7786CF11

XLATORA.ATR ------------ 542A902E