Gazoo Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 The only suggestion I would make at this point is upping the programming voltage (VPP). The steps you are taking are correct. 13.5v or 14v might do the trick. When it starts programming correctly, you'll see the bars filling in from left to right in the rectangular box above the program and cancel buttons. There's also the chance that you're not getting enough current from your USB port to program the eprom. You might want to try a 5v flash chip and see if that works. Gazoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary from OPA Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 There's also the chance that you're not getting enough current from your USB port to program the eprom. You might want to try a 5v flash chip and see if that works. Gazoo Yeah that can be a problem, for my usb programmer, I run a y-cable that adds in power from a second usb port, so there is two ports suppling power to the device, I get no programming errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dphirschler Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 Rather than loading the binary file, use the fill option to fill the memory with the value FF. I know Blank EPROMS should contain the value FF but it's something I'd try, if this were my programmer/EPROM. See if you get a failure again. It programmed! So what does this tell me? I can put FF's on it. Why not code? Darryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRetrogamer Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Hmm. I'm afraid all it proves it the programmer can complete a pass if it's fooled into thinking it's writing successfully. It looks like the write operation is not actually changing values in the EPROM. Because your blank EPROM already consists of only FF values, the write operation has passed over each cell but the verify option is now succeeding. If you look into Gazoo's answer above and Gary's which follows it, there's a suggestion that either you need to increase the VPP to 13.5 or 14v as well as potentially using a Y-cable to supply additional current to the programmer. Try setting VPP to 13.5V. If this fails, increase to 14v. If this also fails, don't increase the VPP any further but try a Y-cable like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/C2G-USB-2-0-B-Male-to-2-USB-A-Male-Y-Cable-NEW-/121330279449?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item1c3fd92419 Edited October 21, 2014 by UKRetrogamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazoo Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 You can also use a powered USB hub in lieu of the splitter cable. Silly thought... are you using a laptop for this? It IS plugged into AC power if you are, correct? Gazoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dphirschler Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 It's a desktop PC, mid tower. The programmer is plugged into the front port. The chip fails blank check after writing FF. Doesn't that suggest that it actually wrote something? Darryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Try plugging into one of the ports directly on the motherboard. Also, if you have USB3 try using one of those ports as they provide more power by design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRetrogamer Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) The chip fails blank check after writing FF. Doesn't that suggest that it actually wrote something? What does the data window show? You should only see FF in each value. I suspect if it's writing something, it's writing random garbage somewhere. If it's showing every value as FF, it's effectively blank. Whether there's a flag somewhere which "locks" the EPROM until re-erased I'm not sure but it has always been my understanding that an EPROM containing only FF values is blank. Each time mine has failed to verify (up until now), it's been because of a configuration error and it's not been able to actually write anything to the EPROM. A blank check after a failure in this case, means I've not had to erase the EPROM again before correcting the configuration and trying again. In fact, the only time I've burned something and then had to immediately erase the EPROM was when I inadvertently programmed an EPROM with one of Kazoo's "Inverted" binary files, made for use with Classic99. Doh! As OLD CS1 says, ideally, you should use one of the USB ports which are directly connected to the motherboard (around the back of the PC). I've read mixed responses about using USB3 ports for power-hungry devices. My own laptop has a BIOS setting relating to power for charging external devices on its single USB3 port. I've never worked out how this effects a device plugged into it, so unless I'm using a USB3-capable device, I don't use it. Edited October 21, 2014 by UKRetrogamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRetrogamer Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 You can also use a powered USB hub in lieu of the splitter cable. Silly thought... are you using a laptop for this? It IS plugged into AC power if you are, correct? My minipro has only ever been connected to a USB2 port on my Asus laptop and I've programmed EPROMs on battery power without a problem so I guess it comes down to the laptop's configuration. I agree though, a laptop should ideally be plugged into the mains when being used to power an external device on its USB ports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRetrogamer Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Just a thought... Do you have any other EPROMS or AVRs? As well as some random BBC Micro and Dragon 32 EPROMS, I've played around and read in an Atmel ATMega328 (Arduino AVR), saved the entire thing as a project and then re-wrote the contents back to test the minipro works with these devices. I love messing around, trying to break things experimenting with devices like this - it's how I learn the quickest. If possible, you might like to try with a different device plugged into it, test to see if the EPROM you're struggling with is faulty. Edited October 21, 2014 by UKRetrogamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrax27407 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Have you tried my suggestion? I initially got similar results to the ones you got. 1) Erase the chip for <>30 minutes 2) Uncheck the "check devic ID" box 3) Enter the nominal values (i.e., Vpp 12.5V, etc.) 4) Program the chip That procedure solved my problems with "imported" chips of Chinese origin. It appears that the Chinese chips were counterfeit. They programmed, verified, and functioned fine but the device ID bytes were wrong. If you are going to be at the Chicago Faire, bring along yor chips and I'll see if I can program them for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dphirschler Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 It's all FF when I read a freshly erased chip. If I fill the buffer with FF and then "Program", it works. After reading it, I see all FF. Blank check after this still reports that it's blank. Then I load gamecart.bin and try to program. It fails after the first byte. I then do a "Read" and see it's all FF except for the first byte which is AA. It appears to have written the first byte but cannot verify it. This works if I write one byte at a time. Darryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Darryl--as Bob suggested: try another chip to see if the results are the same. If you have another size/type/brand, that is even better. What you are trying to do here is isolate the problem (chip or programmer), so you need to be able to test multiple objects when possible. Note that all of the chips in the same lot may respond just like your original test chip, which is why using one from a different source is a good idea here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary from OPA Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 It fails after the first byte. I then do a "Read" and see it's all FF except for the first byte which is AA. It appears to have written the first byte but cannot verify it. This works if I write one byte at a time. Have you uncheck the deviceid? -- Is there a setting to change the 'type of write-style'. -- Sounds like your programmer is using the wrong type of writing protocol for that type of chip. most likely it is not am AM27 chip but some other kind. Also is there any 'firmware updates' for your programmer. I once had a problem with a programmer, and it was due to fact it shipped out of factory with a buggy set of software and firmware on the programmer itself, I had to update the chip on the programmer itself to the latest version, guess what this is back in day before flashing firmware via usb, i had to remove the chip and reprogram, it on ANOTHER programer that worked! (haha) And finally have you tried a different pc, windows, I had some problems getting external usb shit to work correctly on my 64bit windows 7, but on my 32bit it worked no problem. -- check to make sure there is not special usb driver updates needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrax27407 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 If you are using a MiniPro, the latest software version is 6.10. Search for TL866Cs and the latest version will appear among the choices. Or, you can use the Help menu and update it from the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dphirschler Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 Well, I think I've tried everything I can for the moment. I have ordered a powered USB cable. I don't have any other EPROM chips other than this lot. But I have a friend with some, so maybe someday soon. Not sure what EPROM chips he has. He's into pinball. Or maybe I can order some more chips on Ebay. Darryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRetrogamer Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) I tend to buy my EPROMs pre-owned. Usually from local (UK) sellers on eBay. They're generally stripped out of old electronics (PBX systems, etc.) and blanked before sale. They can be purchased for around $1 each if bought 10-20 at a time and I've never found a dud which wouldn't re-program. Buying new CMOS-type EPROMs, especially from China is a bit hit and miss in my experience. It might be worth getting an AVR chip to test the programmer with. An Atmel Atmega328P/U is common, cheap, supported directly by the programmer and doesn't require blanking in a UV eraser between writes. For a couple of dollars, you could find out if the programmer is working properly or not. I could PM you a project to load and burn. Edit: I'm taking for granted that you've already run the hardware diagnostics from the software's menu? Edited October 22, 2014 by UKRetrogamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRetrogamer Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Just as an aside, are there any modern/still in production, pin-compatible ICs which can be used to replace 27C-type EPROMs and don't require a UV eraser? It's a question I've been meaning to ask for some time but CMOS EPROMs are still readily available and cheap (especially pre-used) but lately, I've been wondering if such a thing exists since playing with Arduino and not needing to UV erase between writes is a miracle of modern science, as far as I'm concerned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrax27407 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 There should be some EEPROMs in a compatible DIP package. I think most of them can be electrically erase about 100,000 times before failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dphirschler Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 Swapped three of my AMD 27C040 eproms with a friend of mine for some Intel 27512 eproms. And I have been able to program these with no problems... even the Check ID works. Darryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRetrogamer Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) That's good news. At least you've confirmed your programmer is fine. Did your friend test your EPROMs at all? Edited October 25, 2014 by UKRetrogamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Note that the 27512 chips are 64Kx8, not the 512Kx8 of the 27C040 chips (and you need the 512Kx8 chips for the Gazoo images). It is good to know that your EPROM burner is good though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dphirschler Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 I burned a Gazoo inage onto the EPROM. It seemed to fit. Are you telling me it won't work? Haven't tested it in a cartridge yet. That's tomorrow. Darryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) It definitely won't work right. Note that you have to change the board jumpers to the positions for a 64K chip--and you have to install it as far away from the 74LS378 as you possibly can in the socket (leaving the two socket rows closest to the 378 empty). the 27512 should be a 28-pin chip, which is why the changes are made. Edited October 25, 2014 by Ksarul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRetrogamer Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) I've just tried this on my minipro. The software blindly reads the 512 KiloByte binary and only writes the first 512Kilobits of the file into the buffer. No errors, nothing. I'm pretty sure I've seen the software throw an overflow dialog in the past. That's what I was expecting, anyway. The fact it didn't throw any errors will be the reason Darryl thought everything was working fine. I have to admit, I was so caught up in the "Yay, it writes EPROMs!" moment, I managed to skip the part numbers and just assumed he'd made a like-for-like exchange of EPROMs. Looking on the bright side though Darrly, at least you know the minipro works. Edited October 25, 2014 by UKRetrogamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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