TheAtariKing Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 The Atari 1040STe that I bought on eBay turns out to be a PAL machine. Seller did not mention this in the auction. When I refurbished the computer I noticed that the TOS roms are soldered to the board. What do I have to do to change this Atari 1040STe to NTSC ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_ Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 The Atari 1040STe that I bought on eBay turns out to be a PAL machine. Seller did not mention this in the auction. When I refurbished the computer I noticed that the TOS roms are soldered to the board. What do I have to do to change this Atari 1040STe to NTSC ? Did they come soldered from the factory? If you are using an ultrasatan you can put a 60hz program in the auto folder. That might be the most simple way to get 60hz short of un-soldering the tos chips and replacing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAtariKing Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) Did they come soldered from the factory? If you are using an ultrasatan you can put a 60hz program in the auto folder. That might be the most simple way to get 60hz short of un-soldering the tos chips and replacing them. Yes, they were soldered in at the factory. I do not mind unsoldering the roms, soldering in IC sockets, and plugging in new roms. There are none on eBay except from Europe. I hope TJ still burns roms. So, if I replace the roms will I have an NTSC computer? I have to let the seller know. If he is willing to pay for the roms I will not give him a negative feedback for not stating that the computer was a PAL machine, and I think he knew this. I was really pissed today. I finally finished refurbishing the computer, install 4 matching 1 meg simms, hooked it up, and the monitor starts rolling. I'm thinking WTF?! And then I noticed that the GEM desktop was in another language. At least I know that the computer and the simms work. I hate giving people negative feedback, so, I will just wait until I have had a good nights sleep and have calmed down. I just hope that the seller pays for the new roms, I think that would be fair. Edited October 19, 2014 by TheAtariKing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_ Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 If you play games most are going to switch to 50hz anyway. Probably best to get a monitor that displays 50hz properly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I believe that the master clock of PAL vs NTSC is slightly different. But playing games on a monitor you'd notice no difference. The problem you will probably have is that the RF output will almost certainly have PAL encoding, same for composite and S-Video output. The STe uses the same TV encoder chip that the Amiga 510 modulator does, it can do both standards but requires clock input for whatever standard it's set to output and there's a pin set to either GND or +5V to determine the standard. Likely the video could be modded to NTSC but some work required. Best option might be just an RGB monitor that can do 50 Hz, PAL/NTSC is irrelevant for RGB, it's only the framerate to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 If it is European then composite video is PAL certainly. Changing it to NTSC is not so simple - need to replace crystal + filter(s) . And it may happen that will have too much interference after that, because main clock in machine is set for PAL. NTSC machines have little faster main clock. Above means practically that you must use RGB cable and monitor. What is good, since picture quality is then better. Replacing TOS ROMs with NTSC will not make it complete NTSC machine. it will only set initial refresh rate to 60 Hz instead 50. What is better than nothing. If TOS language is not English, then best to do ROM replacement, of course. You need first to determine is you monitor/cable RGB or composite. 60HZ.ZIP In ZIP you have 60HZ.PRG - need to place in AUTO folder of floppy. There is ST image too, with same. it will switch video to 60 Hz refresh rate after reset, so Desktop will be stable. Then you may see colors or B/W pic. If B/W then cable/monitor is not RGB, just composite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Fixing the TV and RF generation would probably be sufficient - many computers differ slightly from the "proper" line and/or frame rate and most TVs will handle it. Also the chance the audio/video seperation over RF is different to what's needed but really, in the modern day who cares about using RF when you have better options built in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAtariKing Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) First of all I live in the US and we use NTSC. I do not want to use PAL. Second, what the heck are you guys talking about?! I never use the RF modulator and I never use a TV with my Atari ST computers. I have this Atari 1040STe connected to an Atari SC1224 RGB monitor (JVC version). I just need to know 2 things: Where do I get a new set of ROMs (US NTSC version) and what do I need to do to convert this computer to NTSC? I do not want to use PAL. I have a few thousand games and programs for the Atari ST and they are all US NTSC. As you know, I also have and use the Amiga computers. I do video production work (now with more modern equipment), so I can tell you that 60 Hz NTSC is much better than 50 Hz PAL. I will never use PAL, especially when using an RGB to VGA board, which I plan to hook this Atari 1040STe up to. Is it possible to remove the RF modulator and have the STe more like my STf computer? PS: Who the heck still uses an RF modulator to hook their computer up to a TV? I have not done this since 1982 (my friends VIC 20). Since 1982 I have always had and used expensive color monitors and RGB monitors. I was one of the only people in my city that had a complete Commodore 64 setup. Most people could only afford the C64 and a 1541 disk drive. Also, when I bought my first Atari 520ST, I bought the computer, RGB monitor, and 2 disk drives. Same thing with my first Amiga 1000, I got the RGB monitor too. I never used any of my computers hooked up to a TV via an RF modulator, not even my Commodore VIC 20. I have always used expensive monitors. I guess I am spoiled or one of the lucky ones. But really, who the hell still uses an RF modulator or Scart? And, who the hell still hooks up their vintage computer to a TV?! Edited October 19, 2014 by TheAtariKing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) TheAtariKing: you act pretty arrogant, don't you ? People here spent time to help you, and what is your reaction ? Long blah about that nobody uses now RF modulator etc You could write all details in your first post. And here we saw lot of posts by people using Scart, RF, composite. Not everyone has RGB monitor, or proper cable for. I can solve your ROM problems - programming and posting to US. That will convert your computer to 60 Hz machine. Not to NTSC, because NTSC means not 60 Hz in first place, but color encoding system. You may remove RF modulator and PAL encoder, of course. But that's not so simple, and there is no much sense in it. You will be able to run your SW, and that's what matters. Ah, and saying that 60 Hz NTSC is much better than 50 Hz PAL is typical for people not knowing history of color television standards. NTSC is abbrev of "Never the same color" Edited October 19, 2014 by ParanoidLittleMan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_ Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 If the sc1224 scrolls the screen at 50hz adjust the v hold. My STe is NTSC but it does 50 or 60hz with no troubles.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAtariKing Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 If the sc1224 scrolls the screen at 50hz adjust the v hold. My STe is NTSC but it does 50 or 60hz with no troubles.. I do not want 50 Hz, it hurts my eyes. Even after adjusting the monitor so it stops scrolling the screen still flickers. This is one of the reasons why the US and Japan went with 60 Hz NTSC. It is better than 50 Hz PAL. Japan is one of the world leaders when it comes to video, and they use 60 Hz NTSC-J. Anyway we are getting off topic. So, if I change the roms will I have 60 Hz NTSC at the RGB monitor connector? Or is there something else I have to do too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 AtariKing, you have no clue what talking about. 60 Hz in US and some other countries for TV was chosen because it is frequency of electric power - what was established decades before B/W TV invention. In EU electric power freq was 50 Hz . Then, there is PAL at 60 Hz in some South American countries. Surely that 60 Hz flickers less on CRT monitors. But if you want really flicker less go on LCD . And right now we have some threads about some LCD monitors good for Atari STs. You already got answer what need to do to make it work at 60 Hz. And even SW for that. Thank you for your time 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galax Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) I have always used expensive monitors. I guess I am spoiled or one of the lucky ones. But really, who the hell still uses an RF modulator or Scart? And, who the hell still hooks up their vintage computer to a TV?! No comment on the first two sentences, but SCART can carry multiple signals, one of which is RGB. I do not want 50 Hz, it hurts my eyes. Even after adjusting the monitor so it stops scrolling the screen still flickers. This is one of the reasons why the US and Japan went with 60 Hz NTSC. It is better than 50 Hz PAL. Japan is one of the world leaders when it comes to video, and they use 60 Hz NTSC-J. Anyway we are getting off topic. So, if I change the roms will I have 60 Hz NTSC at the RGB monitor connector? Or is there something else I have to do too? There's no such thing as PAL RGB and NTSC RGB, you are confusing the vertical refresh rate (50Hz/60Hz) with the analogue television encoding (PAL/NTSC). If you use a US ROM your ST will default to 60Hz, but some games & demos will not run correctly at this refresh rate. Edited October 21, 2014 by galax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I have TOS Roms for sale. Not sure it will turn it into NTSC but they are US ROMs. I know this happens on the Falcon so maybe it will here too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zap! Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 You can check out the for sale threads, there's a nice PAL 1084S-D2 in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 No comment on the first two sentences, but SCART can carry multiple signals, one of which is RGB. Exactly! SCART sounds pretty awesome. I've been jealous of Europeans for having that, for a long time back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAtariKing Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 You can check out the for sale threads, there's a nice PAL 1084S-D2 in there. I would never buy or use a Commodore 1084S monitor. I have and only use the Commodore 1080 "Amiga" RGB monitors. They were made in Japan by Hitachi and are extremely high quality and well made. The Commodore 1701 / 1702, 1080 Amiga monitor, and the Japanese made 1084 (1080 case) are the best monitors that Commodore ever produced, all the rest are crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zap! Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) I would never buy or use a Commodore 1084S monitor. I have and only use the Commodore 1080 "Amiga" RGB monitors. They were made in Japan by Hitachi and are extremely high quality and well made. The Commodore 1701 / 1702, 1080 Amiga monitor, and the Japanese made 1084 (1080 case) are the best monitors that Commodore ever produced, all the rest are crap.The "S" at the end of 1084 just means it's stereo. I have no idea what you are talking about. They are fine quality RGB monitors. They also do composite. Edited October 23, 2014 by Zap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I'll give TheAtariKIng this much, he sure know what he likes and dislikes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I'll give TheAtariKIng this much, he sure know what he likes and dislikes. Exactly - AtariKing deserves not any help. All what he does is bragging about his extra high standards and like Should change name to TheBragKing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Exactly - AtariKing deserves not any help. All what he does is bragging about his extra high standards and like Should change name to TheBragKing Or Doommaster ..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zap! Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Or Doommaster ..... Wow, telling people to throw their TT's in the garbage. Sounds like he should have been warned for that post in 2005. Edited October 23, 2014 by Zap! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebulon Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 First of all I live in the US and we use NTSC. I do not want to use PAL. Second, what the heck are you guys talking about?! I never use the RF modulator and I never use a TV with my Atari ST computers. I have this Atari 1040STe connected to an Atari SC1224 RGB monitor (JVC version). I just need to know 2 things: Where do I get a new set of ROMs (US NTSC version) and what do I need to do to convert this computer to NTSC? I do not want to use PAL. I have a few thousand games and programs for the Atari ST and they are all US NTSC. As you know, I also have and use the Amiga computers. I do video production work (now with more modern equipment), so I can tell you that 60 Hz NTSC is much better than 50 Hz PAL. I will never use PAL, especially when using an RGB to VGA board, which I plan to hook this Atari 1040STe up to. Is it possible to remove the RF modulator and have the STe more like my STf computer? PS: Who the heck still uses an RF modulator to hook their computer up to a TV? I have not done this since 1982 (my friends VIC 20). Since 1982 I have always had and used expensive color monitors and RGB monitors. I was one of the only people in my city that had a complete Commodore 64 setup. Most people could only afford the C64 and a 1541 disk drive. Also, when I bought my first Atari 520ST, I bought the computer, RGB monitor, and 2 disk drives. Same thing with my first Amiga 1000, I got the RGB monitor too. I never used any of my computers hooked up to a TV via an RF modulator, not even my Commodore VIC 20. I have always used expensive monitors. I guess I am spoiled or one of the lucky ones. But really, who the hell still uses an RF modulator or Scart? And, who the hell still hooks up their vintage computer to a TV?! Not sure about the ST, but on the Amiga PAL is better. In fact I've hard-wired one of my Amiga's to default as PAL (switchable to NTSC). I also do NTSC video production and I can safely say that PAL is the better standard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locnar77 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 to answer the original question, yes replacing the TOS with US version does work. I ordered a 1040STE from england, replaced the power supply and tos roms with US 2.06 (from the UK 1.6) and yes everything was in 60hz (except the games that were in 50hz) and couldnt be switched. But the desktop and everything will default to ntsc 60hz. and i totally understand about the 50hz flicker, I can only play 50hz games for a short time before it starts giving me a headache.... now if someone could only make a proper scandoubler, then it wouldnt matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galax Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) Wow, telling people to throw their TT's in the garbage. Sounds like he should have been warned for that post in 2005.I didn't realise it was 'Doomy'; he has entertainined and annoyed the Atari and Amiga forums for years. He is barrie97124 on eBay, George Campbell http://home.comcast.net/~retrogeek/ , HansCampbell on YouTube, DoomMaster, Spenceranne, BoingHead, and TheAtariKing here (with an 8 year gap between his earliest and his recent posts). There are many amazing quotes about him on the Amiga boards if you Google some of his pseudonyms. Edited October 24, 2014 by galax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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