How much RAM in my II+ ?

[ctar]

Hi all - I just purchased an Apple II+ and it has no language card. I know the stock II+ has 48K, but the RAM chip where you would normally connect the language card (top left if looking down on the mobo) is missing. Does this mean I only have 46K? Is there a way I can verify how much RAM is on my II+ ? I ultimately want to use ADTPro to load DOS, but I'm worried that this missing RAM chip may prevent me from doing that, or generally have some other problems. Thanks, Chris

[Keatah]

The slot needs to be populated. There will be problems without it or a 16k card cable present.

[MarkO]

Hi all - I just purchased an Apple II+ and it has no language card. I know the stock II+ has 48K, but the RAM chip where you would normally connect the language card (top left if looking down on the mobo) is missing. Does this mean I only have 46K? Is there a way I can verify how much RAM is on my II+ ? I ultimately want to use ADTPro to load DOS, but I'm worried that this missing RAM chip may prevent me from doing that, or generally have some other problems. Thanks, Chris

 

So your Apple ][+ almost has 48K. It had a Language Card at one time in it, because the RAM chip was removed and is most likely still in Language Card. You will need to replace that chip, to get the 48K of RAM because the entire Bank is non operational.. One Bit of each Byte is stored in each of the 8 chips. Look at the chips, they will have a number that indicates the Speed of the memory, my apple ][ has TI 200ns on its Language Card. The number, TMS4116-20 Indicates DRAM, 1 Bit width by 16K, at 200ns.

 

 

You can only use 32K of your RAM at this time.

 

 

ADTPro is run under ProDOS, which needs 64K.

 

 

MarkO

Edited November 19, 2014 by MarkO

[ctar]

 

So your Apple ][+ almost has 48K. It had a Language Card at one time in it, because the RAM chip was removed and is most likely still in Language Card. You will need to replace that chip, to get the 48K of RAM because the entire Bank is non operational.. One Bit of each Byte is stored in each of the 8 chips. Look at the chips, they will have a number that indicates the Speed of the memory, my apple ][ has TI 200ns on its Language Card. The number, TMS4116-20 Indicates DRAM, 1 Bit width by 16K, at 200ns.

 

 

You can only use 32K of your RAM at this time.

 

 

ADTPro is run under ProDOS, which needs 64K.

 

 

MarkO

Super helpful. Thanks much MarkO (and Keatah)

[Keatah]

ADTPro is run under ProDOS, which needs 64K.

MarkO

I wonder if the ADT 2.4 client from the version 1.x series would work on this crippled machine? Just a mere curiosity, that's all.

[Osgeld]

there is a dos 3 client from way back that (current) ADT can bootstrap and work with, dont know its memory requirements though

[ctar]

Well, minimally I'd like to get DOS running, and the ADTPro documentation says that can happen with only 48K, but it's not working for me - transfer seems Ok, so I do believe it is a memory limitation. (ADTPro calls this 'EsDOS][' - anyone know what the Es stands for? )

 

I found two different types of RAM in my machine - both are MOSTEK: MK4116J-3 IRL and MK4116N-3GP. I couldn't figure out the difference between 'J' and 'N'. The specs seem to show that '3' is for 200ns (oddly enough). I've ordered another 3GP, as those are the types in the bank missing the chip. And, I'm on the lookout for a language card.

 

Thanks again

[david__schmidt]

I wonder if the ADT 2.4 client from the version 1.x series would work on this crippled machine? Just a mere curiosity, that's all.

Nope. Even DOS-based ADT always required 48k. From the original source - bear in mind "today" then was the 1990s:

rwtsmod:
    stx    $b98a        ; IS THERE AN APPLE II TODAY
    sty    $b92e        ; THAT DOESN'T HAVE >=48K RAM?

There is a project to do audio transfer out of a 48k machine:

http://knzl.de/poor-mans-adt/

 

But bear in mind none of this works with only 32k.

 

Well, minimally I'd like to get DOS running, and the ADTPro documentation says that can happen with only 48K, but it's not working for me - transfer seems Ok, so I do believe it is a memory limitation. (ADTPro calls this 'EsDOS][' - anyone know what the Es stands for? )

 

I found two different types of RAM in my machine - both are MOSTEK: MK4116J-3 IRL and MK4116N-3GP. I couldn't figure out the difference between 'J' and 'N'. The specs seem to show that '3' is for 200ns (oddly enough). I've ordered another 3GP, as those are the types in the bank missing the chip. And, I'm on the lookout for a language card.

Don't know what ES stands for. But it's a DOS 3.3 variant that is one of several DOS variants that speeds things up by not moving memory buffers around so much. It only needs 48k. The reason you can bootstrap DOS on a 48k machine even with ADTPro (server) is that the client never actually runs there; the server just pushes the DOS code and starts it up. You can't do more disk transfers with audio, but at least you can get DOS running with no disks.

 

You might want to pick up a full sleeve of 8 chips... you never know if you have more bad memory lurking, and it's always best (if only for looks!) that your Apple have matching rows of memory.

Edited November 20, 2014 by david__schmidt