New Console: RETRO Video Game System

[Dan Iacovelli]

I agree that if they didn't have the molds that the cost of the sysytem will be higher then 150.

I think as the 9 prong plug could have been avoided if they went with 4 usb connectors and have deal with al to supply

a stella apapter for controllers.

[Clint Thompson]

I'm not trying to sour the topic but I thought the whole ordeal with Sega/Atari over their 9-pin usage on the Genesis is what brought them (Atari) 90-million dollars back in the 90s? Seeing as how Atari is going after anything/everything legal-wise that can be traced back to them (most recent being TxK), why would they not seek action in regards to something like this as well?

 

To be quite candid from the onset, I seriously doubt I'll be picking this up unless something truly exclusive and stellar comes out for it so usb this or 9-pin that discussion is noise to me because software is key. The pack-in title looks 'ok' but it's not something I personally want to try and would probably be more suited or aimed toward a younger kid... at least, that's what it looks like to me and I'm just giving feedback from first impressions and for many, that's all you get. Like mentioned by others as well, the controllers look meh too... but I get it, you have to have something affordable/realistic to offer, it just doesn't look like it belongs to the system is all. Lastly, the name of the console slightly irks me but I can get over it, I guess it's no worse than other Retro consoles but I don't own them either so... I'm not sure what that says. The one thing this thing does seem to have going for it is an original hardware ecosystem that makes it somewhat exclusive and not just another SNES or Genesis released in 2015 - then again, I could be speaking too soon as no one really knows the tech specs of the thing.

 

It'll be interesting to watch unfold at very least and I sincerely appreciate the fascinating videos documenting the story along the way, very intriguing to watch.

[Greg2600]

I know the molds may save them money, but not having to pay for constructed new molds. However, one of the BIG selling points of this console is retro collectivity, and to me at least, something that is not unique or aesthetically pleasing will not have the same value to collectors as something new and unique and cool looking. Whatever interest I had is sterilized by the Jag molds. I don't hate them, they are fine for the Jag, because that's what they were designed for and sold as. To reuse them is to really bury potential creativity. I'm not alone in this sentiment, most of my local classic gaming friends are of the same opinion.

[Bill Loguidice]

I know the molds may save them money, but not having to pay for constructed new molds. However, one of the BIG selling points of this console is retro collectivity, and to me at least, something that is not unique or aesthetically pleasing will not have the same value to collectors as something new and unique and cool looking. Whatever interest I had is sterilized by the Jag molds. I don't hate them, they are fine for the Jag, because that's what they were designed for and sold as. To reuse them is to really bury potential creativity. I'm not alone in this sentiment, most of my local classic gaming friends are of the same opinion.

 

I can't see console or cartridge aesthetics or size having much, if any, baring on interest levels. Ultimately - my opinion - I think the games, and, to a lesser degree, having the proper minimum technological foundation, will be the make or break of the response from the niche audience they're trying to target.

[Greg2600]

 

I can't see console or cartridge aesthetics or size having much, if any, baring on interest levels. Ultimately - my opinion - I think the games, and, to a lesser degree, having the proper minimum technological foundation, will be the make or break of the response from the niche audience they're trying to target.

 

Bill, I don't see the reason then to have a cartridge-based system without it being for collectors? They could have designed and manufactured an Ouya-style device that is 100% digital then for that matter. If you're marketing this as a classic and collectible system, shouldn't it at least appeal aesthetically? Otherwise, why add all these costs onto the customer for cart manufacture?

[Bill Loguidice]

 

Bill, I don't see the reason then to have a cartridge-based system without it being for collectors? They could have designed and manufactured an Ouya-style device that is 100% digital then for that matter. If you're marketing this as a classic and collectible system, shouldn't it at least appeal aesthetically? Otherwise, why add all these costs onto the customer for cart manufacture?

 

The point is, even if it's not everyone's ideal look, I don't think that in and of itself will dissuade the vast majority of the target audience from getting it. It's going to be the quality of the content that will make or break the system, not whether or not it's cosmetically aesthetically ideal, which not everyone will ever agree on. I can't think of any console or handheld where how the thing LOOKED affected sales in any way, and I don't think that will start being a factor with the VGS. With all of that said, I'd be shocked if the Jaguar console and cartridge molds weren't considered at least reasonably attractive to most people. The fact that it's a re-use is not entirely without precedent either, as the Arcadia 2001 re-used the console and cartridge molds from the APF M/MP1000.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Bill Loguidice

[Greg2600]

The Jaguar is huge though, maybe I'm in the minority, but the whole concept seems so crazy for 2015. Why use cartridges at all? Why not just leave it in a digital format? Honestly, to reuse the console and cartridge molds of ANY classic console is in poor taste to me.

 

Look I love Mike's magazine RETRO, and that he's kept CGE going (I really hope to attend the next one), so I don't doubt his drive and passion. At the base of it, I just don't "get" the concept. I wish him luck on the project regardless, but there's simply no way I'm clearing precious shelf space for a Jaguar shell.

[Bill Loguidice]

The Jaguar is huge though, maybe I'm in the minority, but the whole concept seems so crazy for 2015. Why use cartridges at all? Why not just leave it in a digital format? Honestly, to reuse the console and cartridge molds of ANY classic console is in poor taste to me.

 

Look I love Mike's magazine RETRO, and that he's kept CGE going (I really hope to attend the next one), so I don't doubt his drive and passion. At the base of it, I just don't "get" the concept. I wish him luck on the project regardless, but there's simply no way I'm clearing precious shelf space for a Jaguar shell.

 

I don't see how the Jaguar can be considered huge. It's a reasonable size. While it's bigger than a Wii U, it's smaller than an Xbox One and PS4, and roughly the same size as a RetroN 5. If you're going to go the cartridge route for nostalgic reasons, it's not a bad idea to have a reasonably sizable console for all the putting in and pulling out of cartridges.

 

I do wonder aloud though along with you how much empty space is going to be in the case. After all, you usually design a case around components, not the other way around. Hopefully it will be engineered in such a way where any extra space is put to good use from a ventilation standpoint.

[romeoteknik]

Interesting project. However, there is no way they can guarantee a game will be released bug-free. Leaving out the option to patch is a mistake IMO. Unless each studio is going to offer replacements for free. Even with Nintendo's seal of quality, it sure didn't guarantee quality at all.

 

What is great though is it's an HDMI system, so with all the interest in pixel perfect video like RGB NES and the such, this should be something to look forward to. Is 1080P/60 fps possible with retro games?

Edited April 10, 2015 by romeoteknik

[Keatah]

Interesting project. However, there is no way they can guarantee a game will be released bug-free. Leaving out the option to patch is a mistake IMO. Unless each studio is going to offer replacements for free. Even with Nintendo's seal of quality, it sure didn't guarantee quality at all.

 

This hi-speed crazed cycle of create - release - customer beta test - online update.. Seems something of a modern trend.

 

Uhm shouldn't they like get it right in the first place? Like they used to. Like games of yore. And the bugs of yesteryear were called easter eggs. And I don't ever recall having to update the BIOS in my VCS or Intellivision or other consoles. Even my 8-bit computers were stable. Nor did I have to patch Zork or Missile Command or Centipede. The code was stable and mostly bug-free. If they did it yesterday, they can do it today, unless they're too stupid.

 

 

What is great though is it's an HDMI system, so with all the interest in pixel perfect video like RGB NES and the such, this should be something to look forward to. Is 1080P/60 fps possible with retro games?

 

This is somewhat of a conflict. It would seem that there are now two camps. People wanting the fuzzy, blurry, distorted low-resolution of a CRT. And then you got console modders trying to get computer-videocard-like clarity and sharpness from consoles by rigging in better interface standards like HDMI and S-video and component. Where is the middle ground? What will the console be setup as?

 

 

Is 1080P/60 fps possible with retro games?

 

Why not? I play my emulators through a 4K LCD display, or a 1080P display if you prefer. Scale it up or render at that resolution. Whatever works. I jam on Gyruss and Tac/Scan and all sorts of 8-bit classic computer and console and arcade games. If an emulator can do it so can dedicated hardware! They just gotta wanna do it.

 

60FPS? Try 200FPS with power to spare 10X over. If a cheap computer can do that. Just imagine what nice custom console hardware can do.

 

MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Edited April 10, 2015 by Keatah

[roland p]

This is somewhat of a conflict. It would seem that there are now two camps. People wanting the fuzzy, blurry, distorted low-resolution of a CRT. And then you got console modders trying to get computer-videocard-like clarity and sharpness from consoles by rigging in better interface standards like HDMI and S-video and component. Where is the middle ground? What will the console be setup as?

What video interface will still work in 50 years?

[Greg2600]

What video interface will still work in 50 years?

 

What gamer will still work in 50 years?

 

 

This is somewhat of a conflict. It would seem that there are now two camps. People wanting the fuzzy, blurry, distorted low-resolution of a CRT. And then you got console modders trying to get computer-videocard-like clarity and sharpness from consoles by rigging in better interface standards like HDMI and S-video and component. Where is the middle ground? What will the console be setup as?

 

I can't understand the reason to play something that looks worse on purpose, but to each his own.

 

Interesting project. However, there is no way they can guarantee a game will be released bug-free. Leaving out the option to patch is a mistake IMO. Unless each studio is going to offer replacements for free. Even with Nintendo's seal of quality, it sure didn't guarantee quality at all.

 

 

That's certainly a frightening proposition. However, the good homebrewers usually get it right when it goes to cart. However, often that's after the rest of us have played them on flash carts or emulators. This system will have no such capability.

[Clint Thompson]

 

I can't think of any console or handheld where how the thing LOOKED affected sales in any way, and I don't think that will start being a factor with the VGS.

 

I think just about every console designed was done so with aesthetics in mind to some degree to attract consumers (outside of the original Atari 800 and Commodore 64 because those are just box ugly imo but beautiful on the inside lol). It's why the 360 has customizable faceplate options (though we see how well that turned out, I did own a few though). The PSP was super sleek and people loved the way it looked.... just like custom computers and even though the specs of that slim Alienware computer is basically shit in terms of real gaming power, people buy it because it looks cool or at least it garners their attention enough to want to look into it more and buy it. To most people it doesn't matter and you're right, the games is what matters at the end of the day but the whole package is part of the end user experience and we as people buy things based on cool factor, lust after cars that looke exotic, etc. etc.

[Keatah]

To most people it doesn't matter and you're right, the games is what matters at the end of the day but the whole package is part of the end user experience and we as people buy things based on cool factor, lust after cars that looke exotic, etc. etc.

 

Sure when the the looks are more exciting than the games.

 

I didn't care what the VCS or Intellivision looked like. I was interested in the games.

[Torr]

I really hope this thing does well.

 

I think the biggest hurdle will be getting games on it. Like any system, it's going to need dev-kits or some kind of "game making software" or something. I doubt any big name publishers will jump on this, which is both good and bad. Big companies big bring bank accounts, but they also bring shady deals and repetitive, incomplete, uncreative releases that litter the modern gaming world. But there are many "small-time" programmers for PC games and classic consoles. If you were to combine all classic consoles, there is a fairly steady release of home brew titles, then factor in "indie" PC game developers that work on shoe-string budgets and this could be the system that all these programmers could be putting games on. But they are gonna need to know how! Classic systems have been figured out and even have 'basic' programming programs to help them make games; PCs are... well... PCs... many programming languages and engines are readily available to work with... Has it been asked/mentioned how people are gonna be able to make games for this? Will there be licensing fees for 3rd parties to put games on it?

 

Like a lot of people on here, I'm afraid I'm skeptical to just how well this could go over, but unlike a lot on here, I feel it's something I'd like to have... if it does well and gets some games. I hope it does do well. I'd love to see a new system that works the day you bring it home, and that's the end of it. Then buy games. You plug in a game and start playing, and don't have to worry about internet connection/bandwidth/updates/servers going down/etc... Just good old plug and play... the games though... that's where I'm afraid it will fall short...

Edited April 13, 2015 by Torr

[Iwantgames:)]

This seems pretty cool to me, I'll be keeping an eye on it. That tiny knight game looks like a pretty cute pack in title, hopefully it gets supported

[Andromeda Stardust]

I really hope this thing does well.

 

I think the biggest hurdle will be getting games on it. Like any system, it's going to need dev-kits or some kind of "game making software" or something. I doubt any big name publishers will jump on this, which is both good and bad. Big companies big bring bank accounts, but they also bring shady deals and repetitive, incomplete, uncreative releases that litter the modern gaming world. But there are many "small-time" programmers for PC games and classic consoles. If you were to combine all classic consoles, there is a fairly steady release of home brew titles, then factor in "indie" PC game developers that work on shoe-string budgets and this could be the system that all these programmers could be putting games on. But they are gonna need to know how! Classic systems have been figured out and even have 'basic' programming programs to help them make games; PCs are... well... PCs... many programming languages and engines are readily available to work with... Has it been asked/mentioned how people are gonna be able to make games for this? Will there be licensing fees for 3rd parties to put games on it?

 

Like a lot of people on here, I'm afraid I'm skeptical to just how well this could go over, but unlike a lot on here, I feel it's something I'd like to have... if it does well and gets some games. I hope it does do well. I'd love to see a new system that works the day you bring it home, and that's the end of it. Then buy games. You plug in a game and start playing, and don't have to worry about internet connection/bandwidth/updates/servers going down/etc... Just good old plug and play... the games though... that's where I'm afraid it will fall short...

I'm afraid it will be the great little box that could with no games. What Retro is doing is a bold move and I wish them all the luck, but previous efforts at homebrew consoles have a less than stellar track record.

 

I got an Uzebox in 2013. There's a few demos, an arcade port of Donkey Kong and Pacman, and a few other retro arcade titles and PC ports that you can play elsewhere. There's also a racing game that plays remarkably like Indy 500 except with a Dpad, only it has a stage editor built in. I haven't checked Uzebox forums in a while but development seems mostly dead atm. I bought the system hoping better things would come. It's a 28Mhz 8-bit processor that handles both drawing the graphics and game logic. In some ways it's like VCS because with the CPU doing double duty spending most of it's time drawing the screen, game logic and controller polling can only be performed during Vblank. It's on par with NES but loads ROMS off the SD card and is hampered to 4kb RAM and 60kb + 4kb of ROM. 60kb for the game and 4kb for the bootloader and display kernel which prohibits overwrites to prevent corruption. Display colors (256 color 332bpp RGB) and audio (4-bits) are handled by simple resistor ladder DACs. Unlike NES, there is no support for bank-switching, so larger games if they existed would have to be split into separate ROMs. It comes with a dev kit that uses a C compiler to create games.

 

I wished I could love it more but it's sort of a catch-22. People won't buy it if devs don't release games, and devs won't release games if nobody will play it. Plus their system of completely free and open source development may off put some. There's also a free Uzebox Emu but hardly anyone uses the console version...

Edited April 13, 2015 by stardust4ever

[Cerebrate64]

Why would someone make games for this when they could make them and distribute them via xbox marketplace and playstation?

The system seems kinda pointless, although I may wind up getting one because it's a neat little niche item,

[Keatah]

Why would someone make games for this when they could make them and distribute them via xbox marketplace and playstation?

 

From a modern marketing and distribution point-of-view, it's a failure already, the way forward is Cloud and DLC.

 

 

The system seems kinda pointless, although I may wind up getting one because it's a neat little niche item,

 

Well that's what this is supposed to be I believe. I niche product intended for a certain audience. The type of audience that likes the feel and heft of cartridges, instant on, permanence, lack of required updates. Pretty much old-school console enthusiasts. That's how I see it anyways.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Keatah

[Keatah]

I didn't care what the VCS or Intellivision looked like. I was interested in the games.

 

The looks and "physical-ness" of the console(s) grew on me over time. Then I came to associate games with the look of the console. So, today, many years later I see a VCS and immediately feel nostalgic about the games I played in grade school years.

 

Building nostalgia and solid and long-lived demand in classic consoles and cartridges is a challenging thing to do today. Not only that, it takes real and genuine time. Not an overnight thing. Hopefully this console can somehow

 

On a wholly different matter in lieu of the original classic hardware of the 80's. I just go to emulation for convenience and versatility. And I get to play the original games too. Initially gathering all the "stuff" needed for emulation is online DLC. and that allows emulation to meet today's requirements of instant delivery. It's a one-time thing too, get it, got it, done.

[Cerebrate64]

Well, do they have any games planned for it? I know of Tiny Knight, but it looks pretty average.

[+5-11under]

It sounds like this is a fairly complex system, similar to a 16 bit system (when I say complex, I'm comparing to typical 8 bit systems which are relatively easy for one person to program in a reasonably short period of time).

 

I think what this system really needs is a simple way to program it.

[Keatah]

How can something complex be considered retro? Personally I will always equate retro with simplicity.

 

Even in the waning days of 16/32 bit hybrids such as the ST & Amiga systems were simple enough to be programmed by 1 or 2 guys all on their own. And *IF* a team was created to do something it wasn't much bigger. Software houses were still sized around the 10 employee size.

 

And absolutely unlike today's multi-billion-dollar productions with hundreds of members. That's just insane and results in lacklustre games. That's more like a theatrical movie.

[Parrothead]

Wow. Trying to stay up on all the comments in three seperate forums is fun . To add more to the speculation the RETRO VGS won't be PC/Linux based nor Android based. We are going the FPGA route. Keep watching the Facebook page for updates - http://www.RETROVGS.com.

[Keatah]

Is there any other place to get updates besides facebook?