Mux Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Sooooo, with that in mind.. Why not go for software emulation in that case? I mean, if you've got a beefy enough SoC that can output HDMI and all those bells and whistles, the case for including an FPGA becomes kinda moot IMO. Just a thought... -Mux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Sooooo, with that in mind.. Why not go for software emulation in that case? I mean, if you've got a beefy enough SoC that can output HDMI and all those bells and whistles, the case for including an FPGA becomes kinda moot IMO. Just a thought... -Mux Because I believe they really also want to support old console cores with the core embedded in either a cart adapter or with the game itself. Finally you can still develop a nice set of FPGA features over time that can be used for non emulation games and that the SoC doesn't have, think advanced audio processing or special effects [i bet that the GPU in that SoC has a non open source binary blob a la RPi2 so they can't change it much] What’s going on under the hood? (Steve Woita) Think of it as hardware that is reconfigurable by the cartridge. The RETRO VGS will have its own cool configurations (ways to make a game), and it can also be hardware-configured to be other old-school architectures that a lot of developers are used to developing for. Specifically, and at this current time, it’s an FPGA and ARM system. If a developer wants to make a Neo Geo game, they would include an HDL (Hardware Description Language) file that configures the FPGA to operate like a Neo Geo. The developer would code their game to run against the Neo Geo platform. This HDL code along with the actual Neo Geo game will be on the cartridge. Once that cartridge is placed in the RETRO VGS, it will become a Neo Geo and play that game. So in this case, the language is: 68000 and Z80 code. If you wanted to do a new Atari 2600 styled game, you'd include a 2600 HDL file that configures the FPGA to replicate the logic of the original 2600 hardware and then you'd include your new 2600 game on that cartridge too. These two files are then paired up on the cartridge and when plugged into the RETRO VGS, will turn the console into a 2600. So the language that would be used in this case is: 6507 (6502 with less address space). Does that help explain things a little "bit" more? Oh and we’ll have a nice little ARM chip for some more fun stuff. We'll be supplying the validated cores for developers to choose from and you don't have to know how to program an FPGA to make a game, it just gives us a lot of hardware flexibility, I didn't want to lock us in to a specific ASIC design. Edited September 18, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mux Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Additionally, if they're doing that, why not get an ARM micro and add an EVE2 to it? http://www.ftdichip.com/EVE.htm James Bowman did this for Gameduino 2 and all things considered, it's pretty beefy. Thing is, now you're straying away from what's considered, at least in my opinion, retro.. Ahhh, it's getting more confusing by the minute :-) -Mux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) From their FAQ (it's about the style): Is this like the Ouya?No. The OUYA is an "Android" system meant to bring mobile games into the living room on televisions. It is required to be connected to the internet to download games and network updates. Is this like the RETRON 5? No. RETRON 5 is a console that plays old games on old game cartridges. The RETRO VGS is for playing NEW RETRO style games on cartridges moving forward. Edited September 18, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Sooooo, with that in mind.. Why not go for software emulation in that case? I mean, if you've got a beefy enough SoC that can output HDMI and all those bells and whistles, the case for including an FPGA becomes kinda moot IMO. Just a thought... -Mux Along with what phoenixdownita wrote, also a good read is Parrothead's Sept. 2nd post (if you haven't already). This was when the official price was announced and there was much outrage. They apparently briefly considered removing FPGA or having a non-FPGA option. But, I think the cart adapters idea won out. It'll be interesting to see if the adapters make it into the campaign, even as a stretch goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikoInteractive Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Nintendo will never license anything. Sega has licensed all (sms, md, cd, 32x, dreamcast) their hardware stuff exclusively to Atgames. Which is feisable to approach them, and probably way cheaper to sub license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Nintendo will never license anything. Sega has licensed all (sms, md, cd, 32x, dreamcast) their hardware stuff exclusively to Atgames. Which is feisable to approach them, and probably way cheaper to sub license. Can you share with us how SNA3D will be on the RVGS? Legit question, I had assumed it would use a SNES FPGA core but it doesn't sound like that's the case here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikoInteractive Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Can you share with us how SNA3D will be on the RVGS? Legit question, I had assumed it would use a SNES FPGA core but it doesn't sound like that's the case here. I have literally ZERO Idea. As I mentioned, they asked for games and I showed them all of our games, NES, SNES, amiga, Genesis, etc. They picked up SNA3D. Mike mentioned SNES Core was a no go on their end because it has never been made. We have the source code of the SNES version as well as the "HD" Remake but I'm NOT funding development from scratch. I think it had to do with the Steam release, as they announced about the same day it came out on steam; but if you notice, they have barely mentioned compared to the other ones; don't be surprised if they take it off which I would be cool with. Dorke and Ymp is better, or a translation of Ya se Chuan shuo in my opinion. And to be honest, to be very transparent: I agreed to add our games, because one of our "competitor" is providing content. Edit: Fixed grammar Edited September 18, 2015 by PikoInteractive 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Mike mentioned SNES Core was a no go on their end because it has never been made. We have the source code of the SNES version as well as the "HD" Remake but I'm funding development from scratch. Ah you mean you have to rebuild SNA3D with whatever dev tools you get for the RVGS? I remember in an earlier post Mike said something about how original SNES SNA3D carts go for hundreds online, so maybe that's why they chose it? Thanks for sharing the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) .... don't be surprised if they take it off which I would be cool with. ...come again? You own SNA3D and you don't care if it is off the list of this retro VGS? How cheap did they try to get you on this one? Edited September 18, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikoInteractive Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) ...come again? You own SNA3D and you don't care if it is off the list of this retro VGS? How cheap did they try to get you on this one? Yeah, and I don't care because I don't think it was the best game to choose from our 30+ titles. Heck, a remake of Spiritual Warefare would have been better. They had told me they didn't want, Jim power, or legend or Iron Commando, or even Sword of Sodan (Amiga) because they had been released in other platforms before; and then, they picked SNA3D. When I read that I started to feeling detached to the project. Also, it makes us look like we are trying to just grab some quick cash, I didn't liked the community response. But oh well. Edited September 18, 2015 by PikoInteractive 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 This is really interesting news. Another plot twist, it's very cool to hear from someone directly involved who is telling it to us like it is. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikoInteractive Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) This is really interesting news. Another plot twist, it's very cool to hear from someone directly involved who is telling it to us like it is. I didn't sign a NDA and I like to be transparent in our projects. I think if they want developer support they should be very transparent. We'll see. edit: a letter Edited September 18, 2015 by PikoInteractive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I didn't sign a NDA and I like to be transparent in our projects. I think if they want developer support they should be very transparent. We'll see. So basically they talked to you about licensing games, chose SNA3D and yet they have no SNES/SFC core and you're not funding development to port it to ARM. How can they announce it as a launch title or am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) I didn't sign a NDA and I like to be transparent in our projects. I think if they want developer support they should be very transparent. We'll see. edit: a letter Would it be too much to ask what kind of tool chain were you asked to use? Were you supposed to develop your own FPGA core code if you decided to port the HD remake or was it all std Android/Linux tools for ARM? [you don't have to answer if this gets in uncomfortable territory, just share what you feel if anything at all] Edited September 18, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikoInteractive Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Quick reply cause im at HEB grabbing beer lol. Madman- yeah sort of. Phonixdowita- I actually know nothing. Again sent them the list, videos etc. and they picked whatever the linked. Dont even know what language they plan to use or if they are using tools like unity or game maker or notepad lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) On a different note they have to beef up this bio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Woita At Apple (1980-1982), Steve was responsible for debugging and fixing Apple II motherboards after "burn in". He was instrumental in diagnosing and coming up with a solution for fixing a "color noise leak" issue that caused text to appear fuzzy. His solution, replacing a specific resistor on the motherboard with a different value resistor was approved by Steve Wozniak and put into subsequent production. Seriously, being proud for changing 1 resistor from a value to another. I understand it is a nice anecdote of him having interacted (albeit indirectly) with the Woz so it is kool but the specifics are ... ahemmm ... at least he's the SW guy and not the HW guy. It is just a matter of writing style, the fact can still be reported as a fun fact rather than what it seems a career defining moment. Edited September 18, 2015 by phoenixdownita 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Dont even know what language they plan to use or if they are using tools like unity or game maker or notepad lol. NOTEPAD CORE CONFIRMED! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 NOTEPAD CORE CONFIRMED! Minesweeper just confirmed as a launch title. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Quoted for emphasis. Bummer: Also, it makes us look like we are trying to just grab some quick cash, I didn't liked the community response. But oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I'd pick Digikey, but hey.. I sometimes order parts from Mouser.. :-) -Mux RadioShack for the win!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 New GameGavel post, FWIW: Hey Everyone,Just wanted to reiterate that we have had discussions with Kickstarter's, Head of Games, right up to Monday and they point blank said you don't need a working prototype even when their policies say otherwise. We know our crowd and couldn't in all honesty launch there without a working prototype that is nothing less than a real life RVGS board running a game or we would be breaking their policies and would certainly be called out for it.Indiegogo is a very large and successful crowdfunding campaign and have done rather well in the hardware side of things. They have been after us for the past 3-4 months about bringing us to their side of the fence. Needless to say, I would have preferred to use Kickstarter, but again, we don't have the $$ to get a very real prototype made and thusly needed to make a decision to use IGG.Our plan is to get the prototype built very soon. We have the design all locked up and have all our supplier relationships ready to go as well as our CM for the PCB and PCBA.This can all come together quite fast once we know we have the funding. So, if we can hit our goal early on into the campaign we can begin the process before the campaign ends to get a head start. I have confidence in John and Steve, who have been in the video game hardware/software business for 25+ years, and have worked for Atari, Apple, Sega and recently SONY, that they can take the design they have architected the past 8 months and turn into a working prototype. If we had the money to do it ourselves we would have obviously done it.The bottom line is these are career hardware guys and this isn't rocket science. It will come together fast and in front of backers eyes if they let us do it.Only time will tell Seriously, thanks to all of you over here whether you are for us or against us. We've learned a lot and factored much of this and what info we've received on Facebook into our design and engineered this down as much as possible to get it within a price many will be able to afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Fun comments on FB: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 It will come together fast? They've had a year and all they have to show for it are 3D images, inkjet printouts and apparently promises of games that even the publishers don't know how they're going to produce. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 ... and apparently promises of games that even the publishers don't know how they're going to produce. Ya, that is pretty fucked up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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