triverse Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Thanks to Jibbajaba for his help in making this happen: It is embedded in the original post too. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenegg Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 OK, how's this (they've now put some real specs on the IGG page) ... After spending months of decrying any comparison between the RETRO VGS and the Ouya ... RETRO VGS OUYA CPU 1.6GHz Quad Core ARM Cortex-A9 1.7GHz Quad Core ARM Cortex-A9 RAM 1GB DDR3-800 1GB DDR3-800 PROTOTYPE Manufacturer's SoC eval board Manufacturer's SoC eval board OS We won't have one (NetBSD?) Android CONTROLLER Yes Yes CARTRIDGE Yes No COST $300 $100 Remember that only the 'early bird' price is $300. The actual price is supposed is be $350. That means a cart connector, FPGA and removing ethernet/wifi is worth an extra $250. Oh ... let's not forget it's all housed in the shell of one of the most beloved and successful consoles of all time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brento Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Geez, so the thing is somewhere between a "cartridge Ouya" and an "indie-steam carts" console. The main selling point of the console and why I was excited was for the use of Core's and FGPA to have perfect compatibility of old systems. That is how a number of the more tech orientated parts of the community became interested. It wasn't having software emulation. The current console iteration isn't focussed on the past, just retro-looking newly released games, but isn't as powerful enough to be competitive on that front Yes. The only reason I wanted the Retro VGS was to play older games flawlessly on it, and maybe cool if I could play new 'retro style' games on it. But what it has morphed into since I first heard about it no longer leaves me interested. I just hope that the Retro VGS team goes back to the original concept, straightens things out, maybe works with Kevtris (???) and all will be fixed and well? Here's hoping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmer Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Remember that only the 'early bird' price is $300. The actual price is supposed is be $350. That means a cart connector, FPGA and removing ethernet/wifi is worth an extra $250. Oh ... let's not forget it's all housed in the shell of one of the most beloved and successful consoles of all time And don't forget ... the FPGA is now so neutered that it's not going to do anything but provide some glue-logic and allow for the old-console-cartridge expansions, just like the FPGA on a Retron 5. John Carlsen already said that the old console emulation is now going to be software-based, again, that's just like a Retron 5. Except that the RETRO VGS guys will want to charge even more money for the cartridge adapters! Edited September 28, 2015 by elmer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triverse Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Only 8,757 views separate my interview from Gamester81's on Youtube. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxpressed Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I made a video with my thoughts on this project with an explanation as to why I'm so fascinated by it. Mike Kennedy or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Retro VGS Enjoy! Thanks for this. It helped me to understand what is so engrossing about this whole endeavor. At first, I thought it was the conflicting stories about who said what and what happened when. But if I'm honest with myself, all that intrigue pales in comparison to why all this happened in the first place. Your "Retro Land" explanation nails it, and, like you, I realized that I was getting caught up in mapping the contours of Retro Land. Even Carlsen's video is part of Retro Land, like that weird subplot in a dream. Kennedy's stubborn insistence that Retro Land is possible and desirable is endlessly (or at least 119 pages) fascinating to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninja_gaiden2015 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 And don't forget ... the FPGA is now so neutered that it's not going to do anything but provide some glue-logic and allow for the old-console-cartridge expansions, just like the FPGA on a Retron 5. John Carlsen already said that the old console emulation is now going to be software-based, again, that's just like a Retron 5. Except that the RETRO VGS guys will want to charge even more money for the cartridge adapters! .... do you think that they will go via the Retron5 route and just use previous emulation software without consent from the coders that wrote it? I don't imagine that writing a good emulation package for 8-16 bit games from scratch is an easy or quick thing to do and most emulation software is available for non-commercial purposes only. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Nick Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 OK, how's this (they've now put some real specs on the IGG page) ... After spending months of decrying any comparison between the RETRO VGS and the Ouya ... RETRO VGS OUYA CPU 1.6GHz Quad Core ARM Cortex-A9 1.7GHz Quad Core ARM Cortex-A9 RAM 1GB DDR3-800 1GB DDR3-800 PROTOTYPE Manufacturer's SoC eval board Manufacturer's SoC eval board OS We won't have one (NetBSD?) Android CONTROLLER Yes Yes CARTRIDGE Yes No COST $300 $100 Wait, the RVGS is .1GHz slower than the Ouya? A console that was already slightly out of date by the time it launched? And was completely out of date a year later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmer Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) .... do you think that they will go via the Retron5 route and just use previous emulation software without consent from the coders that wrote it? I don't imagine that writing a good emulation package for 8-16 bit games from scratch is an easy or quick thing to do and most emulation software is available for non-commercial purposes only. I suspect that they've given the whole switch to software-emulation just as much careful consideration as they've given everything else in this project, so far. Their IGG budget allows for $32,000 of software outsourcing, as well as Steve Woita's $80,000. Who here would possibly doubt that that's more than enough to write/port some boot code, an OS, libraries, Unity plugins, GameMaker plugins, a proprietary SDK, a development environment, and a complete suite of emulators ... all without using any GPL'd Open Source so that they won't have allow end-users to swap DLLs in their copy-protected cartridges? That lot is all so trivial that it'll definitely be done in less than 9 months, so that they can then get all the cartridge games tested for release in a year! Edited September 28, 2015 by elmer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Thanks for this. It helped me to understand what is so engrossing about this whole endeavor. At first, I thought it was the conflicting stories about who said what and what happened when. But if I'm honest with myself, all that intrigue pales in comparison to why all this happened in the first place. Your "Retro Land" explanation nails it, and, like you, I realized that I was getting caught up in mapping the contours of Retro Land. Even Carlsen's video is part of Retro Land, like that weird subplot in a dream. Kennedy's stubborn insistence that Retro Land is possible and desirable is endlessly (or at least 119 pages) fascinating to me. Thanks! I was afraid I wouldn't be able to correctly articulate why following this whole saga is so fascinating to me. I don't blame the man for having his head in the clouds but he would have much more success with turning those dreams into reality if he would keep his feet on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) OK, how's this (they've now put some real specs on the IGG page) ... After spending months of decrying any comparison between the RETRO VGS and the Ouya ... RETRO VGS OUYA CPU 1.6GHz Quad Core ARM Cortex-A9 1.7GHz Quad Core ARM Cortex-A9 RAM 1GB DDR3-800 1GB DDR3-800 PROTOTYPE Manufacturer's SoC eval board Manufacturer's SoC eval board OS We won't have one (NetBSD?) Android CONTROLLER Yes Yes CARTRIDGE Yes No COST $300 $100 Wait .. how come they can keep on changing the IGG page as they see fit and there seems to be no "history" of changes? Really IGG is weird, so the pledgers don't even know what changes after they pledged? I do not know if KS is the same way but heck this is just all wrong. It's like rewriting a contract after signatures have been put .... no way. At least backers can bail out and ask for a convenient refund ... right. And yeah with those spec may as well buy the new Amazon Tablet, for 50US$ there's even a touch screen and a camera and a wireless but it is only 1.3GHZ .... wait I see a business plan here: Buy 5 of those 50US$ and gut them and just connect them and find an "easy way" to mix their output and "as simple as that" pronto, 40 cores for 250US$ and penta touch screen one for each hand and foot and one for .... (fill in front or back part you prefer) ... whatev... now can I get 2M$ please?????? EDIT: actually it turns out if you buy 5 you get the 6th for free ... wow, both front and back can have a dedicated touch screen and 4 cores. Imagine the possibilities. Edited September 28, 2015 by phoenixdownita 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaperman Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) So I was playing an old video game today--virtua racing on saturn, and noticed that when I accidentally pitted on the desert track, then resumed the race, my engine sounds were gone. Sure would have been nice to have a patch for that. Even though my car sounded a lot like a commuter plane rather than a car, the engine sounds were nicer to have than nothing. Especially since the music comes in 10-second jingles at checkpoints. Just sayin' awesome game all in all, but that wouldn't fly today. ---------------------------------- also: DO TEH MATHS! https://youtu.be/XtcSPViFiFk?t=16m54s See, it's not jagtarded--because they said! [/drunkposting] Edited September 28, 2015 by Reaperman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Is that a freakking dental Xray in the background? Who the hell has one of those just lying around?!?! Common inspection equipment when working with BGAs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Alright, let's not derail the thread with facts, okay? Yes, in spirit with the Retro VGS theme it is only fitting to keep all posts exclusively satirical in nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Just a quick update on another day in the red for the RVGS campaign. They picked up a few pledges throughout the day, many of them relatively small and some from previous backers, but the ones they lost were bigger than the ones they picked up. So, they begin Day 10 at 192 backers and $63,825 raised, or $1,320 below where they started yesterday. That's the lowest their cumulative total has been since Day 3. They are now $14,175 away from finally bringing their cumulative total above 3% of their minimum goal; they would need to raise about $51K per day through the remainder of the campaign to meet their goal. As others have pointed out, they seem to be hoping for a surge of pledges on 10/1 to rescue the campaign. Here are their totals at the start of each day that I've been keeping track (in other words, the figures for each day are "snapshots" which show the state of the campaign at the beginning of that day, midnight CST):Day 03 (09/21): 172 backers, $60041 raisedDay 04 (09/22): 186 backers, $66188 raised, +$6147Day 05 (09/23): 187 backers, $65956 raised, -$232Day 06 (09/24): 193 backers, $67580 raised, +$1624Day 07 (09/25): 192 backers, $65970 raised, -$1610Day 08 (09/26): 188 backers, $64920 raised, -$1050Day 09 (09/27): 191 backers, $65145 raised, +$225 Day 10 (09/28): 192 backers, $63825 raised, -$1320 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 .... they seem to be hoping for a surge of pledges on 10/1 to rescue the campaign. Is that kinda like how Wal-Mart assumes they will make more sales on Welfare\Social Assistance cheque day? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 But they're only 48 days away from $0.00 ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 But they're only 48 days away from $0.00 ! At the rate they're losing backers, they might get there even earlier! The new publicity they've been getting certainly doesn't seem to be having the desired effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InnovaX5 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 What exactly is a "Small Playstation"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiru Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 So the HW specs boiled down to an 1.5 year old Android stick/box (MK908 and such), just with a cartridge interface - exactly what Retron5 did. They'd better to hurry up to patent it, sure. I also imagine how much fun they'd have if they ever get to license software emulators for the thing. Retron5 had issues with this for a reason. And the SW emulator+cartridge thing is totally flawed for 'no updates' approach, as emulators have to detect each game they're running in order to access the data properly, so a DB of all supported games is required, making complete compatibility not achievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 These days it totally should be done this way. Considering ARM CPU, expected game data sizes, and other things, it will load code and data into the RAM to execute it anyway. Even N64 didn't run code directly off the cart memory, for the most part. Heck, just take Compact Flash, and you have ready-made cartridge with nice fast and simple parallel interface, totally oldschool yet still available, and that's actually became true retro these days. No he means CF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CompactFlash Which are basically IDE interfaces. EDIT: funny thing is that they were devised to be used with PCMCIA devices, and for the chronicle the NeoGeo Memory Card is a PCMCIA device! Yes, let's bundle in a open standard like Compact Flash inside the RetroVGS cart with an interface adapter to the cartridge bus. That way users can dismantle the cart, remove the Compact Flash, dump it or reflash it with a better game, and share the ROMz on the Internet! Someone comes up with a bootloader you install on a larger capacity Compact Flash, then you throw all the RetroVGS roms you want on there. Boom, instant multi / flash cart... Somehow I believe the RetroVGS team as well as developers would want to avoid a piracy fiasco such as that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbenchley Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 What exactly is a "Small Playstation"? I would assume it is something like the third version of the Sega Genesis, revised hardware with simplified chipset released at low cost for bargain hunters and developing countries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiru Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 What exactly is a "Small Playstation"? That's the question that puzzles me so much, because he constantly reffering to it everywhere, but somehow shy to name it. And no one asking for details by some reason. 'Few years back' can mean a slim PS3, Vita, maybe Portable, but seem it is not one of these, and that's the problem with naming it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninja_gaiden2015 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 What exactly is a "Small Playstation"? A project that never got off the ground apparently. From the way John explained it, it was a cheaper playstation for developing countries. It may have been something like a plug-and-play, or something. That is just a guess really. The only thing for certain is that, for whatever reason the project was canned and never saw the light of day. I'm not suggesting this has anything to do with John's skills or anything, more likely that the market research didn't fit the product. No one can do anything other than guess though as there isn't a finished product to point to for clarity of understanding etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InnovaX5 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Ah, thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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