Jump to content
IGNORED

How has this not been posted yet? Retro VGS


racerx

Recommended Posts

 

Or, instead of messing with the arm or fpga and the engineering they don't seem to have, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to set up business relationships (which I'd be a lot more confident this team could do) with manufacturers and retail shops to provide the service of publishing/distribution of new carts for a retro system somebody already has--like a SNES.

 

This is what I thought when I first heard their idea. If he wants to make money off his Jaguar mold equipment then just do different runs in different colors or themes. An Alien VS Predator or Tempest 2k themed Jaguar would be pretty cool and I'm sure people in the community would support it. He could have used that money to go towards homebrew projects, retro ports of indie games, or anything else. I just preordered my first homebrew game last night. It's called SLaVE for the Dreamcast and it's one of the rare homebrew games that isn't a vertical\horizontal shmup or puzzle game. I think we need more of this kind of variety instead of another system to start over again with. Edited by xenomorpher
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed. Right now, my favorite console is the Playstation TV. I don't like handheld gaming, but I jumped in with the PSTV once they reduced the price. It's a shame that it never caught on as Sony hoped, as it's a nifty little box. The graphics are about halfway between the PS2 and PS3, the cart format provides the quick loading times and durability that the RVGS team is always blathering about, the network connectivity allows for online purchases, patches, DLC and trophies, it supports both PS3 & PS4 controllers, does a little bit of streaming video, you can play PS1 and PSP games, and the box only draws something like 2.5 watts. With the new hack, the number of supported Vita games has increased by a lot and you can even do Netflix (although it's supposed to be a bit of a dog). I wonder how difficult it would be to produce aftermarket cart games for the PSTV? That would be a lot better platform for the demographics that the RVGS is targeting than their vaporware box.

 

I also bought the PS TV at the reduced price, used it for an hour then it went straight to the countless console-filled plastic containers in the depot. I could find nothing good about it, at all. I have a lot of different dirt cheap Android boxes, each one of those are better. Using my PS3 controller with the PS TV is nice though.

 

 

This is not over for me yet. I need to see how this all plays out. I'm not wanting to dance on the grave, or anything, but I just can't look away.

 

I am in it for the long haul as well. I have to see the end game as it happens. Not when it is over.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I also bought the PS TV at the reduced price, used it for an hour then it went straight to the countless console-filled plastic containers in the depot. I could find nothing good about it, at all. I have a lot of different dirt cheap Android boxes, each one of those are better. Using my PS3 controller with the PS TV is nice though.

For me the PSTV has been great because I like JRPGs. My only reason for buying it was so I could play Persona 4 Golden. Games like Muramasa and Dragons Crown have been gravy.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be so amazing if People could release a game, like, for Windows or Linux, in a CD or DVD, have that in a box, with a Manual and nice cover art, you know? DRM free, you could run it off the CD, or just copy it to a HD and Play it. But unfortunately Optitytis kills you if you buy games on optical media. Not to mention if you rub your DVDs against sandpaper they get completely unusable.

 

Of course there would be the possibility of just selling the same game on an SD Card, being sure you put decent Flash in there.

 

But that's not possible, because next Windows update None of those games will run anymore.

 

 

Hmmm... or do they?

 

I have seen People talk about PS Store and Steam as alternatives to the RVGS and that sorta pisses me off. These closed Services with DRM don't let you legally Keep your games and do whatever the heck you want to with them. But DRM free Distribution does, and there are tons of good drm-free games out there.

 

I'm not sure what Steve Woita has been doing, but I'll say People who consistently make good games tend to get a decent Name and at least stay afloat. I know it's not easy, but if the issue is letting indie game devs have a place it's pretty obvious the RVGS isn't what's going to fix that.

 

But I do agree that for the time being the horse is dead enough. I wish the RVGS Team success in their future Projects, but I just can't see this getting off the ground.

Edited by leods
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 Days left. Looks like they have either disabled likes and comments on their Facebook page or they finally blocked me. Comments on the IGG have seem to come to a grinding halt with the exception of the three uber-fans that mostly post incoherent cheer leading.

 

I can't seem to look away from any of it at this point. As StopDrop&Retro put it best - I want to go to Retro Land at this point. I almost feel like Mike Kennedy should abandon this IGG and start an IGG for a Retro Land theme park. At this point that's what it seems like he's talking about a Theme Park more than a Video Game Console. A place where he can truly be the Willy Wonka of all things Retro.

 

Let me just say this. I was 100% behind this project when it was first announced. I wanted a Super Jaguar or an Ultra Megadrive type console that had new exclusive titles and sequels to long forgotten franchises from deceased developers. I half expected Greg Pabich to jump on board from the start and announced Cheetahmen III or "Action 52 the Reunion". When it turned into a FPGA emulation box, I didn't understand what that was - I had to look it up. I was REALLY on board with that idea thinking that a SD card slot or USB stick would let me play my ROMs on this beast of a dream console. Cartridge adapters were "leaked" and I was confused. Why would I even want such a thing when I own all the old consoles with everdrives already? Then the price hike...

 

I'd love for Kevtris to create his FPGA Console, I'm so interested in many of his cores because I don't own some of those consoles and I love the idea of being able to experience everything all in one place. I'm sad that the RVGS is just the mascot of Retro Land at this point. It could have been so much more. What do I know though? After all I'm just a hater troll.

Edited by InnovaX5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, how's this (they've now put some real specs on the IGG page) ...

 

After spending months of decrying any comparison between the RETRO VGS and the Ouya ...

 

RETRO VGS OUYA

CPU 1.6GHz Quad Core ARM Cortex-A9 1.7GHz Quad Core ARM Cortex-A9

RAM 1GB DDR3-800 1GB DDR3-800

PROTOTYPE Manufacturer's SoC eval board Manufacturer's SoC eval board

OS We won't have one (NetBSD?) Android

CONTROLLER Yes Yes

CARTRIDGE Yes No

COST $300 $100

 

 

 

Wow. So the 'absolutely nothing like the Ouya' RVGS is now actually a worse Ouya?

 

So... If I pull the fan off my Ouya, yank out it's networking, underclock it by .1Ghz, solder on a cartridge connector and then flush $300 (+S/H) down my lab grade toilet - I have made my own RVGS kit?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

retroland.jpg

 

LOL that's perfect!

 

And to answer your previous question, I agree, I think Steve will be the first to leave. Mike and John seem to be fighting for control of the project and Steve is sitting out most of this, which is probably why he didn't know about the whole Kevtris thing. I bet he's looking for a quiet exit from the project. Out of the three he's probably the best known for his classic gaming credentials so it's kinda sad that this fiasco will always be stuck to his resume.

 

This explains what happened to me. Early on, I allowed myself to go to retro land. He had so much starry eyed optimism. I got caught up in it.

The thing is, Mike really does seem to want all of this to be real.

This is not over for me yet. I need to see how this all plays out. I'm not wanting to dance on the grave, or anything, but I just can't look away.

 

His optimism has really been the only selling point and it's easy to get caught up with it. Our culture tells us to fight for the little guy and the underdog. But that kind of thinking can be dangerous in the world we live in. Think of it this way- Mike likes to make analogies to their game Tiny Knight and says that like that character, he's a little guy fighting against the big dragons. That's all great and good for him, but I doubt there's a part in the game where the knight has to raise 1,850,000 pieces of gold from the townspeople. You can't just look at the story Mike tells, you have to look at how all the parts are trying to fit together, and then you realize it makes no sense.

 

It would be so amazing if People could release a game, like, for Windows or Linux, in a CD or DVD, have that in a box, with a Manual and nice cover art, you know? DRM free, you could run it off the CD, or just copy it to a HD and Play it. But unfortunately Optitytis kills you if you buy games on optical media. Not to mention if you rub your DVDs against sandpaper they get completely unusable.

 

Yeah, that pretty much exists. As I said in my video I use Indiebox and it's working out great for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks to Jibbajaba for his help in making this happen:

 

 

It is embedded in the original post too.

 

This was a great interview, and I came away with two major thoughts.

 

1. They should have done this interview WEEKS ago, and had it as part of the IGG page DAY ONE. Both Steve and John were very forthcoming, and they made a heck of a lot of sense regarding what things cost at a consumer level. They explained how classic systems would be emulated, as well as got into aspects such as producing a plug-in for game making software, that would be compatible with their OS. They talked about the FCC regulatory costs, something homebrewers don't bother with.

 

2. Had he not been one of the founders, Mike Kennedy should have been REMOVED awhile ago as the PR face of this project. His interaction with the public has been so damaging to the perception and reputation of the RVGS, and has single-handedly ruined any shot this project ever had. Steve and John frequently (and wisely) were forced to cut him off from both rambling, and doing another round of immature squealing. Steve had no idea that KevTris had even left the project! He thought he was still providing them with the licensed cores.

 

It's definitely a shame. I'm still skeptical that a cartridge-based system, even if it could play games like Axiom Verge or Shovel Knight, could ever succeed. I think everyone who immediately looks at the $2 million campaign and scoffs at it frankly is being very childish themselves. Producing a quality, durable, FCC-legal, consumer retail product is not cheap. Retro gamers are a frugal bunch, but I find it pretty comical that they would belittle this product yet support Kevtris who is proposing a device that only plays old games, and probably won't be sold for much less than RVGS should it include 16/32 bit system support everyone is begging for. I think that if you're more interested in what old hardware RVGS can run, then you are not the target audience. The target audience are gamers who like to collect physical copies, a practice quickly to be extinct, and completely extinct for most "indie" style games. Woitka made a good point, selling download-only indie games on modern systems is not easy, and true monetary success is very, very rare. At least with RVGS, the developer stands to make a decent profit IF (big IF) the console sells and has a healthy install base.

 

I know Gamester81 has taken flack for his Mike interview, because he is developing for RVGS. However, John is one of the most vocal supporters of physical media, but he's not alone. Plenty of other retro gamers WHINE nonstop about this subject, and very few have offered support for RVGS. I know Kennedy has bungled PR badly, but yet again retro gamers opine, but when presented with something that could fulfill their yearning, they object. This happens time and time again. Old game collectors are the LAST people I would rely on to fund a project of this sort. From what I saw on Facebook, and in private, I found younger collectors were far more enthusiastic than the over 35/40 crowd.

Edited by Greg2600
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Plenty of other retro gamers WHINE nonstop about this subject, and very few have offered support for RVGS. I know Kennedy has bungled PR badly, but yet again retro gamers opine, but when presented with something that could fulfill their yearning, they object. This happens time and time again. Old game collectors are the LAST people I would rely on to fund a project of this sort. From what I saw on Facebook, and in private, I found younger collectors were far more enthusiastic than the over 35/40 crowd.

 

Now wait a second. I will complain that Publishers are selling "physical" copies of PC games that are a steam code in a box. Screw them. I won't buy that. I used to buy PC games that I could just install and Play. Or sometimes even Play out of the disk. I also will complain that "physical copies" of many console games just won't run without a day one patch. That bullshit, and there is no reason why that Needs to be the case. It just happens because Gamers put up with it. Well guess what, I don't.

 

It's really making a HUGE jump between defending physical Releases, and wanting to pay 300 bucks for an underpowered System and then 30 bucks a Piece for indie games that cost 10 bucks on average if you buy them digital. And all that with terrible PR and misinformation from the developers themselves? It's ridiculous to blame the potential customers of this for not supporting it in this condition. You can say People didn't Support physical. We didin't Support this broken Project. Befor the Project was obviously broken I actually supported it.

 

People Forget that you CAN have big console games that run day one without patches. We just have to enforce and give companies backlash if they screw up. Maybe you call that whining and not actually supporting physical Releases. Well, I see it differently.

Edited by leods
  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

leods, let me clarify, because I've come to see there are two sources of complaint with downloadable content. One is from the camp that wants a physical item, to display and to trade and to collect. This is the camp which RVGS is geared at. However, another camp complains about waiting for patches, and that games will disappear and no longer be playable (excluding online-only network play, which obviously people should realize will not infinite). This is the camp that RVGS is marketing to. This is a big mistake on Kennedy's part, because the as you said, the public has made it clear they don't care about the latter. They complain, but still buy the games and wait 6 hours for patches. They buy popular titles over and over again as they get re-released on future platforms. The rest of us just download them and play them on modded systems.

 

I would say that RVGS is not just low-powered indie titles, at least not as Steve Woitka described it. However, the message has been so confusing frankly it's tough to say WHAT it would actually be. That goes back to my point #2. I think there IS a market for a collectible system, for collectors. Is it enough to justify a new platform like this I don't know? I suspect they figured it would catch on with collectors first, then more and more people would want to get in on the game. However, the message is much too open ended to make sense. No, few in their right minds would play the system as is, perhaps it has potential, but that's a catch-22. How do you promise something that may not happen?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's definitely a shame. I'm still skeptical that a cartridge-based system, even if it could play games like Axiom Verge or Shovel Knight, could ever succeed. I think everyone who immediately looks at the $2 million campaign and scoffs at it frankly is being very childish themselves. Producing a quality, durable, FCC-legal, consumer retail product is not cheap. Retro gamers are a frugal bunch, but I find it pretty comical that they would belittle this product yet support Kevtris who is proposing a device that only plays old games, and probably won't be sold for much less than RVGS should it include 16/32 bit system support everyone is begging for. I think that if you're more interested in what old hardware RVGS can run, then you are not the target audience. The target audience are gamers who like to collect physical copies, a practice quickly to be extinct, and completely extinct for most "indie" style games. Woitka made a good point, selling download-only indie games on modern systems is not easy, and true monetary success is very, very rare. At least with RVGS, the developer stands to make a decent profit IF (big IF) the console sells and has a healthy install base.

 

I know Gamester81 has taken flack for his Mike interview, because he is developing for RVGS. However, John is one of the most vocal supporters of physical media, but he's not alone. Plenty of other retro gamers WHINE nonstop about this subject, and very few have offered support for RVGS. I know Kennedy has bungled PR badly, but yet again retro gamers opine, but when presented with something that could fulfill their yearning, they object. This happens time and time again. Old game collectors are the LAST people I would rely on to fund a project of this sort. From what I saw on Facebook, and in private, I found younger collectors were far more enthusiastic than the over 35/40 crowd.

 

I disagree with you here because it's not like they have a physical product out there to simply purchase, people are being expected to put up $300 to get this thing started and they may never get a product out of it. And if that price point isn't high enough, that's just the backers price, it's going to be higher for regular retail. With this even higher price point, one can expect the console to sell even less. And they're not guaranteeing any but a 2600 core if I read correctly, everything else they're going to make up on the fly as evident through their entire campaign. I wish Kevtris would just put a cart slot into his system and then we'd have it all, but people are supporting him because his shit is done. He'll demo it. They aren't showing us anything and as someone posted earlier, its specs are that of the Ouya, a somewhat marvel of a machine in that it's the size of a rubik's cube.

 

I still say the people who this is aimed at really don't exist in a united mindset. I could never figure out how people have the entire NES library or missing a few games here and there from many libraries yet don't support homebrew. They'll spend tons on Eli's Ladder and Color a Dinosaur and other garbage, but not support new, real games developed for the hardware? A lot of people are more nostalgic than actually wanting new retro games. And what do you get, really? A retro game for 40 bucks that there's probably something similar for 99 cents on mobile? I think spending extra money for physical is one thing, but quadrupling (at least) costs is a whole different can of worms. I think most everyone wouldn't mind something like this, but the price has gotten out of control.

 

At the end of the day, they want us to buy a new console to play games our old consoles are perfectly capable of and we already own them. If it's 50 bucks for a true 16-bit game on the VGS, why not just buy a SNES homebrew of it and be done with it? It's like they want to control the retro homebrew scene with their own console. It just makes no sense for anyone but them since they are the ones to profit.

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Retro gamers are a frugal bunch, but I find it pretty comical that they would belittle this product yet support Kevtris who is proposing a device that only plays old games, and probably won't be sold for much less than RVGS should it include 16/32 bit system support everyone is begging for. I think that if you're more interested in what old hardware RVGS can run, then you are not the target audience. The target audience are gamers who like to collect physical copies, a practice quickly to be extinct, and completely extinct for most "indie" style games. Woitka made a good point, selling download-only indie games on modern systems is not easy, and true monetary success is very, very rare. At least with RVGS, the developer stands to make a decent profit IF (big IF) the console sells and has a healthy install base.

I actually take strong issue with your stereotyping and generalizations about retro gamers. There may be some very vocal posters here and elsewhere that are frugal, but plenty of us who are retro gamers give generously to Kickstarter projects and buy homebrews and other small run items that are fairly expensive all in the interest of supporting something we believe to be worthwhile. Similarly, I am far more likely to support someone like Kevtris who has actually put in a lot of hard work on a project and who has given back to the community over the years versus a team of folks who I have had very little interaction with and who seem to have poor business and decision making skills.

 

As I pointed out to Mike on Facebook in the run up to this project, there are other groups and entities supporting physical releases, including small publishers and companies like IndieBox, Gamers Edition and others. Creating a whole new platform to support physical releases was both unnecessary and ignorant of the marketplace. It would have been a much better use of the time and resources to create a company that helped small developers publish games on physical media with high quality packaging and media.

 

I don't know Mike personally, but I do know his previous work and I have been largely disappointed with all of it. From his attempt to compete with Ebay that offers no benefit to buyers and frankly less protection (indeed, he allowed a fraudulent seller that was banned from Ebay to sell on Gamegavel even after being made aware of the previous fraud and banning, explaining that the guy hadn't done anything similar on Gamegavel yet and so he was going to give him a chance) to a magazine that seems to lack editorial direction or even basic proofreading and doesn't even have much "retro" content, I have found his work amateurish at best. I know it's popular to bash on "haters" nowadays, but sometimes I think it's ok to say to someone that has too many bad ideas and schemes, "hey, maybe business isn't for you and maybe you should stop wasting your time and money and that of your family and friends on ideas that have no future". I personally believe there are such things as bad ideas and bad products and all of the good intentions in the world won't bring back money or time that has been wasted.

Edited by bojay1997
  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

At the end of the day, they want us to buy a new console to play games our old consoles are perfectly capable of and we already own them. If it's 50 bucks for a true 16-bit game on the VGS, why not just buy a SNES homebrew of it and be done with it? It's like they want to control the retro homebrew scene with their own console. It just makes no sense for anyone but them since they are the ones to profit.

Strongly agree with this point. I've never understood the need to force people to buy a whole new platform to play games when many collectors and retro gamers already own the original hardware or systems capable of playing the original software.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After reading and listening to Carl Williams interview I think these guys are all over the place with ideas. Many things you could argue for or against. The 3 that would give this a chance seem drowned in a sea of awkward communication. This system has to do striking and unique things in order to succeed:

 

A. Focus on fostering a game making community. Those people who could mod a game but never grasp C or assembly. Ooya had their chance but instead catered to the me too Android crowd.

 

B. FPGA equals real hardware. Our original systems are dying. Our livingrooms are crowed with too many gadgets. You give me one system that can play real 2600, 7800, SMS, Inty, Genesis, Nintendo, etc.. carts and you've got a guaranteed customer.

 

C. If you must go ARM/Android then give me unique titles I can't find anywhere else. I don't want to purchase Tiny Solar Shoveled Knights yet again.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

After reading and listening to Carl Williams interview I think these guys are all over the place with ideas. Many things you could argue for or against. The 3 that would give this a chance seem drowned in a sea of awkward communication. This system has to do striking and unique things in order to succeed:

 

A. Focus on fostering a game making community. Those people who could mod a game but never grasp C or assembly. Ooya had their chance but instead catered to the me too Android crowd.

 

B. FPGA equals real hardware. Our original systems are dying. Our livingrooms are crowed with too many gadgets. You give me one system that can play real 2600, 7800, SMS, Inty, Genesis, Nintendo, etc.. carts and you've got a guaranteed customer.

 

C. If you must go ARM/Android then give me unique titles I can't find anywhere else. I don't want to purchase Tiny Solar Shoveled Knights yet again.

Preach it brother!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Strongly agree with this point. I've never understood the need to force people to buy a whole new platform to play games when many collectors and retro gamers already own the original hardware or systems capable of playing the original software.

 

And yet you support Kevtris's system which does exactly that?

 

 

 

I disagree with you here because it's not like they have a physical product out there to simply purchase, people are being expected to put up $300 to get this thing started and they may never get a product out of it. And if that price point isn't high enough, that's just the backers price, it's going to be higher for regular retail. With this even higher price point, one can expect the console to sell even less. And they're not guaranteeing any but a 2600 core if I read correctly, everything else they're going to make up on the fly as evident through their entire campaign. I wish Kevtris would just put a cart slot into his system and then we'd have it all, but people are supporting him because his shit is done. He'll demo it. They aren't showing us anything and as someone posted earlier, its specs are that of the Ouya, a somewhat marvel of a machine in that it's the size of a rubik's cube.

 

I still say the people who this is aimed at really don't exist in a united mindset. I could never figure out how people have the entire NES library or missing a few games here and there from many libraries yet don't support homebrew. They'll spend tons on Eli's Ladder and Color a Dinosaur and other garbage, but not support new, real games developed for the hardware? A lot of people are more nostalgic than actually wanting new retro games. And what do you get, really? A retro game for 40 bucks that there's probably something similar for 99 cents on mobile? I think spending extra money for physical is one thing, but quadrupling (at least) costs is a whole different can of worms. I think most everyone wouldn't mind something like this, but the price has gotten out of control.

 

At the end of the day, they want us to buy a new console to play games our old consoles are perfectly capable of and we already own them. If it's 50 bucks for a true 16-bit game on the VGS, why not just buy a SNES homebrew of it and be done with it? It's like they want to control the retro homebrew scene with their own console. It just makes no sense for anyone but them since they are the ones to profit.

 

KevTris is not developing a retail-oriented product. This is not a dis-qualifier on his part, but he will not be able to take what he's selling, and distribute it to Wal*Mart. Hence the far higher cost. Should they have sought outside backing instead? Perhaps, but that's probably not realistic. The goals are different, Kev is just building a box that does X, Y, Z, for a niche audience, which he's fine with. Retro VGS are attempting to build a new "consumer" game platform. Whether that's viable or not (probably not), that's the gist of it. I said from the beginning I never thought a retail-driven model was possible.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

After reading and listening to Carl Williams interview I think these guys are all over the place with ideas. Many things you could argue for or against. The 3 that would give this a chance seem drowned in a sea of awkward communication. This system has to do striking and unique things in order to succeed:

 

A. Focus on fostering a game making community. Those people who could mod a game but never grasp C or assembly. Ooya had their chance but instead catered to the me too Android crowd.

 

B. FPGA equals real hardware. Our original systems are dying. Our livingrooms are crowed with too many gadgets. You give me one system that can play real 2600, 7800, SMS, Inty, Genesis, Nintendo, etc.. carts and you've got a guaranteed customer.

 

C. If you must go ARM/Android then give me unique titles I can't find anywhere else. I don't want to purchase Tiny Solar Shoveled Knights yet again.

 

Lots of good ideas have come out of this topic on different ways to take this project. I'm really liking the hobbyist-target game making console and the right technical support staff could make it a really cool project. Dunno if Mike and his guys are gonna be the ones to make something out of this (kevtris is already on a roll) but I think how heated and ongoing this thread has been shows there is definite interest for this kind of project.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After reading and listening to Carl Williams interview I think these guys are all over the place with ideas.

 

Mike Kennedy's been marketing FPGA emulation and ARM for modern retro-styled games. Pretty much would do whatever you, the consumer, want it to do.

John Carlsen wants mostly ARM, including for emulation. FPGA for glue, or something.

Steve Woita sounded pretty firm about wanting FPGA emulation. I'm not sure how he feels about ARM. I think FPGA was originally his idea.

 

You know; stuff they should have hammered out long before asking for money,

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

And yet you support Kevtris's system which does exactly that?

 

 

 

KevTris is not developing a retail-oriented product. This is not a dis-qualifier on his part, but he will not be able to take what he's selling, and distribute it to Wal*Mart. Hence the far higher cost. Should they have sought outside backing instead? Perhaps, but that's probably not realistic. The goals are different, Kev is just building a box that does X, Y, Z, for a niche audience, which he's fine with. Retro VGS are attempting to build a new "consumer" game platform. Whether that's viable or not (probably not), that's the gist of it. I said from the beginning I never thought a retail-driven model was possible.

Sorry to burst your bubble man, neither are these jokers. You aren't going to find the RETRO VGS in a retail store like Walmart, Gamestop OR Best Buy even if this thing did get funded. You aren't going to walk into a Target and find the Target Exclusive colored system for $399.99. Does Mike know that you escaped from Retro Land? I bet that Kid Chameleon and Aero the Acrobat are already on their way to take you back as we speak.

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

John Carlsen wants mostly ARM, including for emulation. FPGA for glue, or something.

Steve Woita sounded pretty firm about wanting FPGA emulation. I'm not sure how he feels about ARM. I think FPGA was originally his idea.

 

You know; stuff they should have hammered out long before asking for money,

There where talks about the FPGA doing cool stuff to offload the CPU. Well, that is very not-retro of course. But I do wonder what could be done with it. Kevtris showed at least a realtime fractal zoomer. I wonder what it could do to enhance games (if possible).

 

But that's the whole problem. What is the retroVgs???:

 

1. A console that can do unseen stuff with the FPGA?

2. A console that plays old games through cartridge adapters?

3. A console that plays old games on new cartridges with the emulation core (same as 2 but without cartridge adapter)?

4. A console that plays retro-inspired indie games made by a bloated framework that generates gb's of code?

5. A console that plays games programmed in your favorite language with your favorite vdp?

6. A console that plays games programmed for the ARM with video generated by the FPGA?

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree the RVGS lacks focus and that probably hurts the product when they're trying to get attention either from the media or potential backers. It's like trying to sell a Swiss Army Knife but you can't show it, you can only describe it.

 

There could be a hole in the market to fill if they could ditch all the extras and market the RVGS as a second home for homebrew cart developers. The homebrew cart scene is fascinating but unless you preorder on the first run you end up paying outrageous prices on the used market. If they could make the RVGS into an affordable ($150) console that has homebrew carts at an affordable price ($40 and under) and with steady production runs, then they might find a market. And, yes, I know this idea is included in their whole muddy schtick. But it would help them to focus on that part and concentrate on signing on with those developers instead of going in a million different directions trying to scoop up supporters wherever they can find them.

Edited by StopDrop&Retro
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

And yet you support Kevtris's system which does exactly that?

 

 

 

KevTris is not developing a retail-oriented product. This is not a dis-qualifier on his part, but he will not be able to take what he's selling, and distribute it to Wal*Mart.

 

And what, Mike will sell his Retro VGS at wallmart? Seriously? Do People actually buy that crap? amazing...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

And yet you support Kevtris's system which does exactly that?

 

KevTris is not developing a retail-oriented product. This is not a dis-qualifier on his part, but he will not be able to take what he's selling, and distribute it to Wal*Mart. Hence the far higher cost. Should they have sought outside backing instead? Perhaps, but that's probably not realistic. The goals are different, Kev is just building a box that does X, Y, Z, for a niche audience, which he's fine with. Retro VGS are attempting to build a new "consumer" game platform. Whether that's viable or not (probably not), that's the gist of it. I said from the beginning I never thought a retail-driven model was possible.

 

And yet, I think KevTris' angle has a better chance at hitting the shelves than this thing does, purely from an economic prospective.

 

KevTris-style FPGA emulation is near 100% accurate, works with a huge library of old games people already own and love, and has a homebrew community that already caters for it. So a console like the Analogue NT has a really nice niche carved out already. Sure you can argue 500 dollars is way too much for an NES clone. I wouldn't pay for it either. But I wouldn't buy an iPhone, nor do I have a huge NES cartridge collection. If we were talking accurate Sega Megadrive clone, I could be parted with 150 bucks give or take easily. If I had a collection worth 4-5 digits, 500 bucks is pretty cheap.

 

Now my point is, there is money to be made in these niche markets. Console clone makers and hombrew developers alike. And people, whether they buy a clone or just use their old NES can have fun in this niche market.

 

What I find kind of impossible, economically speaking, is for something like the retro vgs to succeed. It's trying to be everything that modern gaming platforms are, without differentiating on anything at all. No way it can compete with android on price. No way it can compete on AAA titles with Sony or Microsoft. And no way it can beat the old consoles on nostalgia factor.And without differentiating on anything, no way it's gonna sell enough pieces for developers to make exclusive titles for it. Targeting the Genesis or the (S)NES, already gives you a huge install base compared to this.

 

It needs to target a niche market for it to gain an install base as I see it.

Edited by 001 Influence Device
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...