bretthorror Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Yeah, I don't get it either. Some people collect for their e-peen, ie if it is rare, it's worth pursuing, not because a game is good or worth playing. I own the NWC repro as well, translucent blue cartridge that plays identical to the original. Probably saved a good 5 grand at the time when I bought it to the tune of $55, more like ten grand now in today's economy. Then there are turds from a gameplay perspective like Air Raid and Stadium Events. I wouldn't even want a repro of one of those. But there are gamers and there are shelf collectors. Really everyone in this retro collecting/gaming hobby is somewhere between the two extremes. Most gamers own games they've never played, and most collectors have picked up and played games at some point. I agree, we all exist to some extent between those two extremes. But for some reason, from Youtube views or website hits, whatever, the "rare" titles seem to at this point in time draw the most attention and that's just absolutely ridiculous. It'd be like the shittiest movie ever getting main bill over Casablanca. That's why movies and music are true art forms and video games get the shit end of the stick. Not even the hardcore video game fans have true respect for their chosen artform. As I'm primarily a film buff guy, I'd watch Gone With the Wind over the rarest stupid title ever released on home video because 7 copies were made because it sucked. It's a matter of pride. Only in the ridiculous world of video games does anyone care about Eli's Ladder over Pitfall. And for that reason is why no one can respect the platform. I'm sorry to say it, but it's true. Movie critics still bust a nut over Citizen Kane because it re-invented the wheel in terms of movies. In video games, the most sought after cart is NWC, a couple minute compilation of Tetris, Mario and Rad Racer. Gaming gets no respect because its most hardcore, influential people fans don't even give it respect. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I've felt all along that there are some great new retro titles being made and I believe there are gamers who would enjoy having them on a cartridge. Yes, many of these great homebrew games are coming out on carts for original systems, but I have friends who grew up gaming on those classic consoles who I know still are retro gaming on their mobile devices, and have absolutely no idea that new games are still being made for them (original legacy systems). When I mention to them a NEW console that plays games like they enjoyed playing growing up they immediately love the idea of having a system like this. [..] Unless they are playing emulators and the original roms on their phablets, then no, they are not retrogaming. Not even close. They might think they are - because some company called their release a retrogame. But they don't know any better either, or are falsely/mistakenly capitalizing on the word "retro". I'm not sure I like the new-style neo-nuvo-retro material out there, regardless of its distro method - carts or digital d/l. Theres a world of difference between the original retro and new retro stuff. True classic gaming requires the original code to be running somehow. Not stylized fodder crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) I love how everyone went from being interested in this machine, to 60 pages of ripping on it, and Mike/Steve/John, to pull a complete 180 and start butt-groping their imaginary work again. The project got pulled, it should have died then and there... Sorry guys, but maybe if you had something other than a dream and promises that big name developers were working on a machine that didn't exist yet, maybe you wouldn't be stuck holding the molding to a dead console (that should also have stayed dead). Indeed. But it's these group dynamics that add another layer of interest to this console's story. I've made another video with my thoughts: Fear and Loathing in Retro Land... and other assorted fairy tales Enjoy! Edited October 8, 2015 by StopDrop&Retro 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I guess that depends on one's stance on the morality and/or legality of downloading ROMs. I can't argue your statement, I just don't think it's a big issue to most people. Take from that what you will. You're going to heaven, I'm going to hell. I didn't even make it personal! I'm not a collector, but maybe those types like the thrill of the hunt? Or it's like finding treasure in real life? One thing that's pretty awesome about AtariAge is its, and many of the users', stance against ROMs of homebrew games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I think the cart collecting has to do with nostalgia. I grew up with mostly tapes and floppies. I don't care that much having a game on a cartridge. For my GB Micro non-flash carts are nice since they draw less current than the flash ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AE35 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) Indeed. But it's these group dynamics that add another layer of interest to this console's story. I've made another video with my thoughts: Fear and Loathing in Retro Land... and other assorted fairy tales Enjoy! I have always called this 'the Star Wars Effect' - meaning that the small, the few are the good guys(the rebels) and the big/many are evil(the empire). It also applies to real life: The masses were pro-Israel since they are small country against half a billion arabs, but when Israel won the six day war against Egypt, Jordan and Syria(and Iraq as backup) they became the strong ones. Germany were the strongest country during WW2...the USA had a smaller army than Poland in the early years. But at the end of the war, when the firebombing of Dresden took place Germany was on its heels. That is why it is so popular to blame Great Britain for using excessive force these days. Now Germany was the weak. These things turn all the time...during talks at the watercooler, locker room or other. What my brother supports one day, he may not support the next day. This is changed to fit his peers, his boss(raise) or which way the wind is blowing. That is why I hardly follow politics any more, and I sure as hell do not discuss it. Some time ago the sales figures for the Wii U was 10 miliion and the xbox one was 13 million. The Wii U was considered a failure and the xbox one a succes. So, somewhere between 10 and 13 there is a line that seperates failure from success. Or maybe it is due to word on the street and....watercooler talk. Love the video, thanks!! Edited October 8, 2015 by AE35 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 You just did a whole paragraph on politics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Indeed. But it's these group dynamics that add another layer of interest to this console's story. I've made another video with my thoughts: Fear and Loathing in Retro Land... and other assorted fairy tales Enjoy! Screen grab of most epic transition ever!!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Some time ago the sales figures for the Wii U was 10 miliion and the xbox one was 13 million. The Wii U was considered a failure and the xbox one a succes. So, somewhere between 10 and 13 there is a line that seperates failure from success. Or maybe it is due to word on the street and....watercooler talk. That's because the Wii U was a full year older than either the Xbox One or PS4, and, in that specific comparison, the Xbox One was on a steady upward trajectory, while the Wii U was not. It's a matter of momentum and future projections, not specific numbers at any one moment that are out of context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Wii-U is doing fine IMO and has better games out than either the PSbore or Xbone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Wii-U is doing fine IMO and has better games out than either the PSbore or Xbone. Objectively, it's not doing fine sales-wise, but if you like the games available for it, that's all that matters in the end. As for better games than those found in the libraries of either the PS4 or Xbox One, that's completely subjective, and objectively not true when it comes to third party software. Since many Wii U owners are super into the first party stuff, that doesn't really matter, however. In any case, you'll find plenty of people who play one or the other more and like the libraries of one or the other more. As an owner of all of them, for me, they each have their purposes, and each have their respective failings. And if you want to go back to school day "my system is better than yours" (because that's what I own) juvenile name calling, so be it, although it doesn't make a particularly compelling point. Let's face it, it's a crowded market and easily the best time ever to be a gamer. You not only have two successful major consoles and a third that offers a compelling alternative/addition, but also a killer modern PC ecosystem powered by the likes of Steam, Origin, GOG, etc. There's of course a whole range of niche offerings to take up even more of our time, including Nvidia's Shield line, as well as countless mobile options. It would be quite an accomplishment for a system like the Retro VGS to carve out a sustainable niche in the type of competitive landscape we're presently in. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BydoEmpire Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I've heard it all and experienced it all and I just can't fathom how people still bash emulation like it's some kind of terrible experience in playing virtually the exact games we all love. I didn't read anyone bashing emulation. Some people prefer playing on real hardware and feel something is missing on emulation, which is perfectly fine. It's also true. I don't see what's so hard to fathom about that. For me, it's about the experience - picking out a cartridge, clicking it into the slot, playing on a real TV, playing with real controllers. It's about more than the games themselves. Emulation can do a lot of that in some cases - I've really enjoyed the recent Flashback units. If you prefer emulation, great, there are advantages. I don't see why it's hard to understand why some people prefer the real thing. To me, this is why the emulation aspect of the RVGS is a side bar. I'm more interested in new games in the old style. There are already a lot of great ways to play emulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) I didn't read anyone bashing emulation. Some people prefer playing on real hardware and feel something is missing on emulation, which is perfectly fine. It's also true. I don't see what's so hard to fathom about that. For me, it's about the experience - picking out a cartridge, clicking it into the slot, playing on a real TV, playing with real controllers. It's about more than the games themselves. Emulation can do a lot of that in some cases - I've really enjoyed the recent Flashback units. If you prefer emulation, great, there are advantages. I don't see why it's hard to understand why some people prefer the real thing. To me, this is why the emulation aspect of the RVGS is a side bar. I'm more interested in new games in the old style. There are already a lot of great ways to play emulation. Nobody is saying emulation is bad. For some platforms such as MAME, it is the only practical way to experience them. But I prefer real hardware when given the option. Just like My Raspberry Pi bartop MAME cab (Porta Pi) is like a shrunken down arcade cab, even though it's still emulation, it just feels more legit in a nice form factor, as opposed to a PC or laptop with a USB gamepad. Edited October 8, 2015 by stardust4ever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) In any case, you'll find plenty of people who play one or the other more and like the libraries of one or the other more. As an owner of all of them, for me, they each have their purposes, and each have their respective failings. And if you want to go back to school day "my system is better than yours" (because that's what I own) juvenile name calling, so be it, although it doesn't make a particularly compelling point. I wasn't trying to incite a schoolboy type fanboy war. Though I admit I am a Nintendo fanboy from NES / Game Boy to Wii-U / N3DS. And Nintendo has been turning meager profit for the past couple years and stocks are up recently since Mario Maker launched. Edited October 8, 2015 by stardust4ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) I have always called this 'the Star Wars Effect' - meaning that the small, the few are the good guys(the rebels) and the big/many are evil(the empire). It also applies to real life: The masses were pro-Israel since they are small country against half a billion arabs, but when Israel won the six day war against Egypt, Jordan and Syria(and Iraq as backup) they became the strong ones. Germany were the strongest country during WW2...the USA had a smaller army than Poland in the early years. But at the end of the war, when the firebombing of Dresden took place Germany was on its heels. That is why it is so popular to blame Great Britain for using excessive force these days. Now Germany was the weak. These things turn all the time...during talks at the watercooler, locker room or other. What my brother supports one day, he may not support the next day. This is changed to fit his peers, his boss(raise) or which way the wind is blowing. That is why I hardly follow politics any more, and I sure as hell do not discuss it. Some time ago the sales figures for the Wii U was 10 miliion and the xbox one was 13 million. The Wii U was considered a failure and the xbox one a succes. So, somewhere between 10 and 13 there is a line that seperates failure from success. Or maybe it is due to word on the street and....watercooler talk. Love the video, thanks!! You're absolutely right, the Empire vs. Rebels side switches all the time but usually it's small going to big. That's because they no longer satisfy the important condition of "high external disadvantages" so they lose their underdog status and a lot of the free support that was gained with it. There's also a good point there that I was going to add to this video, but decided not to because it was becoming too long and I didn't want to go in too many different directions. But let's look at how advertising can backfire if you don't use the underdog effect correctly. Nintendo is not a market leader this generation, but that does not automatically make them an underdog. Nintendo is still seen as "old money" by everyone so they're seen as having very low external disadvantages. That affects advertising because people don't see a need for a top dog to advertise their own high passion/determination, so when they do it's looked upon as propaganda and their fans are labeled "fanboys". Coca Cola has a similar advertising/propaganda problem. Meanwhile a Kickstarter with the same "let's go, team!" high passion/determination advertising shtick will be seen as a rally cry for an underdog who needs it, even though it's the same message. Screen grab of most epic transition ever!!! RetroVGS_Illuminati.jpg WAKE UP, SHEEPLE!!!! Edited October 8, 2015 by StopDrop&Retro 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRedEye Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 We also met with Mika Mika and his team at Other Ocean up in Oakland a few months ago (Thank's Mike, btw for chiming in here a few pages ago). Actually I'm not Mike, this is Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bretthorror Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I didn't read anyone bashing emulation. Some people prefer playing on real hardware and feel something is missing on emulation, which is perfectly fine. It's also true. I don't see what's so hard to fathom about that. For me, it's about the experience - picking out a cartridge, clicking it into the slot, playing on a real TV, playing with real controllers. It's about more than the games themselves. Emulation can do a lot of that in some cases - I've really enjoyed the recent Flashback units. If you prefer emulation, great, there are advantages. I don't see why it's hard to understand why some people prefer the real thing. To me, this is why the emulation aspect of the RVGS is a side bar. I'm more interested in new games in the old style. There are already a lot of great ways to play emulation. We're basically in agreement that however people game, it's cool. The part that I don't understand is the "experience" aspect of it. I get absolutely no different experience or feeling playing NHL '95 on my Genesis or my Ouya. It's like my previous example of watching Superbad. At the end of the day, I see no upside to me of a ritual of putting my DVD in versus watching on Netflix. I'm really glad it makes them happy to use original hardware, but I think it's individual based nostalgia and absolutely nothing to do with experiencing the game or logic. But there's nothing wrong with that as long as the person is still into games. I just think anyone who says I haven't properly experienced Ninja Crusaders because I've only played it at work on a DS when it originally was on NES - which is what they're saying even unintentionally with every 'yeah but I play things on real hardware' comments. And I don't think it's done with any intentional malice, it just is the fact the stone is always thrown at emulators first. A lot of this is aimed at Youtubers like I said before. In one video they're saying roms are illegal and the next they're reviewing bootleg Famicom multicarts. Funny how logic changes when something physical is rare that they can show off on their channel to these YouTube guys. I will tip my hat to you for wanting the RVGS to have its own new games, I did as well. But I think we're in the minority. So many collectors just want things they grew up with. And we really need those types to support the RVGS if it is to come to fruition. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosquare Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I've made another video with my thoughts: Fear and Loathing in Retro Land... and other assorted fairy tales Great video. You deserve much credit for actually doing research on your claims. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-type Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) I've said all my points and advice, this is just a quick thank you to Steve Woita for programming one of my top twenty favorite 2600 games... WP_20151007_16_18_56_Pro.jpg Taz is a lot of fun. Try it out here: http://www.free80sarcade.com/2600_Taz.php Its the same game as Asterix with a couple of sprite modifications. gameplay kind of reminds me of fruit ninja. Edited October 8, 2015 by G-type Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_convoy Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 More Pat and Ian: 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Here is something constructive, a new chip, that is an ARM and a FPGA in the same dye. The Xilinx Zynq that features either a 667 MHz ARM Cortex A9 and a 430k gate FPGA (in the low-end configuration) or an 866 A9 and 1.3M gate FPGA. EDIT: Devboard https://www.crowdsupply.com/krtkl/snickerdoodle 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Ouch. More Pat and Ian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVFoHkpFJzE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 EDIT: Devboard https://www.crowdsupply.com/krtkl/snickerdoodle Nice! That would even look great underneath a transparent Jaguar shell! But seriously, it blows my mind what the SoC industry is doing. The degree of integration is incredible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Here is something constructive, a new chip, that is an ARM and a FPGA in the same dye. The Xilinx Zynq that features either a 667 MHz ARM Cortex A9 and a 430k gate FPGA (in the low-end configuration) or an 866 A9 and 1.3M gate FPGA. EDIT: Devboard https://www.crowdsupply.com/krtkl/snickerdoodle I kan haz tek-knowledge-gee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipercub Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Socal's representation of my Uk Mike's and my involvement could have not beet more inaccurate to a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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