phoenixdownita Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) RGB and S-video are not relevant in the consumer sphere. They are legacy. HDMI is the way forward. Whether you like it or not. That is what the industry says. That is what SOC & ASIC makers strongly prefer. Composite for simplicity and economy, HDMI for top-quality. Not sure if you're trying to correct me or just restating a fact that's been obvious for the last 49 pages. They, not me, decided to support Composite, SVideo and RGB with simultaneous HDMI output and they, not me, also decided to have a power jack allegedly for a Sony RF unit. Now they dumped SVideo but kept the rest .... not sure why ... maybe they are afraid that the cacophony of random connectors on the back would look unbalanced or something. The randomness/sloppiness of the last few days is what disheartens the most for a group that seeks 3M$. They amended the FAQ to remind that during campaign at 349 you can chose the transparent (called Jewel) or classic (called Legend) colors ... well what about those metal (called Treasure) colors that they are showing off ... what are those for? If you ask for 3M$ you have to have some ATTENTION to DETAILS. Edited September 18, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 maybe they are afraid that the cacophony of random connectors on the back would look unbalanced. The paper couldn't absorb that much glue. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 If this thing was ANYTHING worth while, Mike and company would have invested there own money to have at least a working prototype and some hello world code running on it from a "year" plus of this "hard work". If they are not willing to seriously invest in this console why the fuck should anyone else? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Yes, should have been more specific. https://github.com/rossumur/Arduinocade Nice. This looks even more promising than Uzebox. Call me intrigued... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 If this thing was ANYTHING worth while, Mike and company would have invested there own money to have at least a working prototype and some hello world code running on it from a "year" plus of this "hard work". If they are not willing to seriously invest in this console why the fuck should anyone else? Exactly. Speaking of "HardWork," the RVGS project is starting to remind me of this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Exactly. Speaking of "HardWork," the RVGS project is starting to remind me of this. I was gonna say that Knight Rider could end up being the pack in title. They both have the same chance of making it to market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Total cost: ~$30 including PCB... That's where something like this needs to start. The fun and discovery of "new" hardware for the tinkerers, real oldskool type games rather than "retro" ones with their 64x64 rotating pixels and alpha effects... thire whole concept of an all-powerful "future-proof retro console" is a nonsense for me, that's not where I'd be attempting to approach this from. $30 to make, $75-$100 in a customer's hand, and it's now more in line with real old hardware and you're meeting the expectations of that crowd. RVGS went from something that appeared to be somewhat like this to an industry-serving indie box to further monetise existing IP/software at least that's how I now view it and why it hold absolutely zero interest. That's the sad part. There can't be too many reasons for this, but is it my place to $peculate...? Anyone with an ounce of sense wouldn't bother updating here. I said it before, I'll say it again, this thread is nothing but bad press for them. AtariAge has done them no service. If I was project manager I wouldn't. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees with me - I don't really care. I don't care, ner ner ner? AtariAge should be exactly the kind of place you'd get honest, fair and useful feedback if you were attempting a project such as this. The guys and girls of AA seem to have little positive to say regarding this indie box micro console they refer to as the "retro" video game system... that might be because it's pretend retro on a pretend console with pretend cartridges. And maybe people are too old and cynical to play make believe at an upwards of $300 entry point...? I'll chime in on RVGS... What I don't understand is why, at this stage, they don't have a PCB or a prototype. If they've been beavering away you have to have SOMETHING. Block diagram, schematic, whatever.. Because, despite their claims of having "...architecture and circuit design they have spent almost a year on..." we know that is stretching things a little. When it was being teased (around 8 or 9 months ago?) all the way through to just a few months back, we know their idea of what exactly would be inside the plastic was all over the place... when was it they were talking about Amiga technology, for example? All the "spend a little more here, and we can do this... spend a little more there and we can do 10x more of that" stuff did more than hint at any design work being of the order you could limit to the back of a cereal packet with a large brown Crayola. It seems shitty and anti-community to have to say stuff like this, but RVGS went, week by week at times, from being something the majority of the really active userbase of a site like AA might at least be interested in, to being this Ouya-besting industry-courting hipster device, with a price tag tailored to just that kind of audience rather than the much more frugal and thrifty classic gamer types. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I'll chime in on RVGS... What I don't understand is why, at this stage, they don't have a PCB or a prototype. If they've been beavering away you have to have SOMETHING. Block diagram, schematic, whatever.. They could easily put this to rest by just showing a PCB. One thing that worries me is that nothing has been mentioned about the tool-chain. For me that was the hardest part. I ended up creating a secondary board that connected to my PC to download data and relied on not-so-great free assemblers and what not. No debugger at all. I may well be too generous here, or simply misunderstanding what he wrote, but I think they do have a working board most of us are clamoring for. At the very least he mentioned a "processor eval board"; whatever that is. The cardboard design pictures were something I always figured was a part of the gritty reality of sausage making; the problem is that we never got the next stage -- or even a simple explanation that it was just a part of designing. I also think the amount of comparisons to OUYA's Kickstarter is silly. That was 2012; this is 2015. There's been enough failed well-intentioned campaigns and plenty of straight-out con jobs to warrant caution. I had to step away from this thread yesterday, as I was about to start posting pictures of cardboard money. Like others here, I don't think they are out to scam anyone. Even if I may not agree with their handling of the campaign (as a casual observer), I do think their hardware guy knows his stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 That's what puzzles me, too. If they've been working on this for "nearly a year," where are the tangible results to show for it (except the plastic shells, which we all know are from preexisting molds). I'd have a hard time working steadily for a year on new hardware without having to make some sort of prototype. It's easy: they don't have the money to build a prototype, and need the backers to get the money needed. All money they have invested are in the jag molds and paying the guy for 3d renders. That is why, since KS forbidds it, they move on to indigogo with more loose rules. Good intentions? Yes, I believe they would try to put together a prototype and a finish machine if they are able. But will backer like to wait for all that? And in the end, will they realy make it the entire distance... who, knows. It's always hard to put a price tag on something you don't know the final cost for............................................... risky 7 of 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 100% loooonngg wait for backers.... frustration at 100%Speculations at 99% will follow the entire way through this project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Expansion port; need a Sega 32X video connector for S-video signals: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) It's easy: they don't have the money to build a prototype, and need the backers to get the money needed. All money they have invested are in the jag molds and paying the guy for 3d renders. That's bullshit. They've more than made that back selling overpriced cases to the Jag fans. Sorry, I obviously mean 'Deluxe Special Edition Colour Packs' instead of 'overpriced cases' ....... Edited September 18, 2015 by CyranoJ 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 That's bullshit. They've more than made that back selling overpriced cases to the Jag fans. Sorry, I obviously mean 'Deluxe Special Edition Colour Packs' instead of 'overpriced cases' ....... I withdraw my case. Small, smaller ... *pop* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draikar Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 There is a pod cast that clears up some things at http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/shownotes/2015/roundup091_2015.09.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giltygear Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 If this thing was ANYTHING worth while, Mike and company would have invested there own money to have at least a working prototype and some hello world code running on it from a "year" plus of this "hard work". If they are not willing to seriously invest in this console why the fuck should anyone else? Why invest their own money when they can take it from everyone else? Mike Kennedy/ Parrothead's silence here is VERY telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickcris Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 There is a pod cast that clears up some things at http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/shownotes/2015/roundup091_2015.09.php Can you let us know what it clears up. No way I'm listening to an hour and a half podcast. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Expansion port; need a Sega 32X video connector for S-video signals: The 32X/Genny2 cable does NOT support SVideo because the 32X/Genny2 NEVER output SVideo. [you need to mod the console to do that, and tap directly the signal from the encoder, and use your own connector at that point] So the "it's pretty easy to find cables" statement is simply false!!!!!!!! All there's on the 32X/Genny2 cables is RGB, stereo audio, compo-shit, and CSync (and not everyone bother with CSync either). Here: http://www.gamesx.com/avpinouts/genesisav.htm Obviously they can make a custom wiring for it but then it is not a 32X/Genny2 cable anymore, as I said elsewhere the Saturn pinout does indeed support also SVideo as it ALWAYS did: http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:saturnav Who said that their hardware guy knows his stuff??? Nevermind, retro schmetro, did he ever own a 32X or a Genny2? Actually did he ever own any retro console? If he did he would know that 7800, SMS, SMS2, Genny, Genny2, SNES Mini all need mods to do SVideo .... well they should have used the Nintendo port (SNES, N64, GC) that one supports SVideo natively. http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:nintendomultiav Edited September 18, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Can you let us know what it clears up. No way I'm listening to an hour and a half podcast. If it takes 1.5h to clear anything up it means you're making up excuses. Saying "I'm sorry" it's a 2 sec deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Can you let us know what it clears up. No way I'm listening to an hour and a half podcast. I skipped parts, but here's a few things: - 8:28 They're out of personal money and need a cash infusion to continue - 51:30 Something about some cores have to be officially sanctioned by the original console makers; they really sounded uncomfortable when someone asked about a homebrew Nintendo game. I could be mistaken, but the licensing issues may come up if a developer wants to modify the game's FPGA core so the emulated console acts outside its norms. Like a "wouldn't it be cool if a Super Nintendo just had a few extra cycles" scenario, or whatever. - 1:22:57 The new expansion port will allow room for the RVGS to grow, so there will never need to be an "RETRO 2". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariTexas Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I skipped parts, but here's a few things: - 8:28 They're out of personal money and need a cash infusion to continue - 1:22:57 The new expansion port will allow room for the RVGS to grow, so there will never need to be an "RETRO 2". Point 1 is exactly what I suspected since there's an obvious urgency in going on a funding site. I can't imagine what they spent all of their resources on to this point if they weren't developing a prototype. That would be near the top, THEN I would think you would worry about getting devs on board, licensing, etc. All of the fact finding of what was wanted should have been step 0 and been little-to-no expenditure. Either way, if they couldn't afford a prototype, they could at least lock down exactly how this works. It would be much easier to get behind if they were uber-detailed about every component of the prototype that they wanted to build, even if they didn't necessarily have the resources to build it. It still seems like it's all a moving target, which is not really acceptable. Point 2, I'm not sure what to make of. As a retro-inspired console, it shouldn't matter that the specs get forever locked down, particularly if it's designed in a clever way in the first place. It's not meant to compete with other new systems that will always have more power. If the thing lasted on the market for 10 years, I think that would be a major win, THEN you worry about a RETRO 2 that's fully backwards compatible yet incorporates whatever new features need incorporating (8K upscaling, etc.). This point indicates again a lack of certainty about much of anything. This kind of needs a Steve Jobs-like vision of "the Retro will do x, y, and z, and not a, b, and c, because WE know best." 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mux Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I poked around their site a bit more last night and they had an audio block diagram up that was just *insane* and completely going against what they're after with an FPGA. Why have this uber sound system that can do ANYTHING (SID, FM, AY8910, etc)? The point of having an FPGA is that you just pick and choose a SINGLE block for the system you're trying to create, not a giant cobbled together one. With regards to prototyping, I prototype stuff on an Altera DE1 board. They're $250 or thereabouts with much more expensive ones out there. What bothers me about this is that they haven't even shown that. With a hardware engineer on-board, they could EASILY have prototyped stuff on a pre-made board and created a custom one. Not 'being at that stage' is complete bullshit. The hardware guy is working in parallel and has fuck-all to do with the case design aside from chiming in which connectors he can support. -Mux 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Point 1 is exactly what I suspected since there's an obvious urgency in going on a funding site. Point 2, I'm not sure what to make of. Yeah, when you first said you thought they may be out of funding my first thought was that they were afraid to push the project too far past the Summer-to-late-Summer campaign that was promised. Turns out you were right. I'm not sure about point 2 either, other than perhaps it's over-engineered? I guess we'll have to see what info is released in the coming days. I poked around their site a bit more last night and they had an audio block diagram up that was just *insane* and completely going against what they're after with an FPGA. Why have this uber sound system that can do ANYTHING (SID, FM, AY8910, etc)? The point of having an FPGA is that you just pick and choose a SINGLE block for the system you're trying to create, not a giant cobbled together one. Others have made this mistake, including myself: I'm pretty sure that's a user-submitted suggestion and not the actual diagram. The creator obtaining permission to post it makes it sound like it's official. In the later half of that recent podcast they do discuss audio output, but I just skimmed through that part so couldn't tell you the particulars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draikar Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 They will have announcement later today about Indiegogo on there Facebook page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 - 1:22:57 The new expansion port will allow room for the RVGS to grow, so there will never need to be an "RETRO 2". There's no need for the original Retro VGS, let alone a second version. What will it be, even more retro? Twice the retro? An expansion port goes against the entire "retro" ethos, but as others have pointed out, it's not really about being retro anymore. Probably never was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts