NeoGeoNinja Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) We've all done it. Pretty much EVERYONE who is here on the Jaguar forum. Sat down with that one Jaguar game that has a distinctly unsavoury reputation, played it and given it more attention than most would on average... more than it deserves, in a quest to try and extract some level of enjoyment from it. Not only that, but to try and understand the game more; maybe what it was trying to achieve, regardless of it falling way, way short. DDV has been this game, for me, this last couple of week nights for an hour or so after work/before bed. So, I just wanna discuss my thoughts and feelings on this title as I now have a better understanding of it, on the whole. Most of which, isn't positive. This isn't actually what I would consider a review. More of a general perspective and overview. BEAR IN MIND, all of this is based off playing 1P Tournament Mode. Doubt I could ever subject anyone to playing this in 2P. Anyway... I'll start off with the visuals etc. VISUALS: The graphics are (objectively speaking) very, VERY poor. Shitty, is no doubt, the optimum word that pops into my head. The design style is typical western dev horror of the 16-bit era and the character 'designs' are just shocking. As I say, the distinctly western look and feel of the game is just ugly. Obviously, it extends beyond 'design' and goes into the animation too. Outside of Bimmy, Jimmy & Sekka, all the other punch and kick animations just flat-out 'suck'. GAMEPLAY This is the big one really. The make or break, regardless of lacking visual quality. The game has gamebreaking issues throughout. I'd be absolutely delighted to talk you through them now, in more detail than most would be bothered to go into. Maybe I did this because fighting games (2D, especially, if my username hadn't given it away already) are my favourite gaming genre? Most probably. But I really wanted to sit down and analyse it. I'll try and keep it all as simple as I can. The core gameplay mechanics of 3P & 3K is fine. A lot of games used a similar system and there's no issue here. However, obviously trying to utilise the standard Jag Controller for a 6-button game is a logistical nightmare, control wise. It doesn't work. However, you CAN configure the buttons, so that is something. I always recommend just programming 2x Medium & 1 Hard or 2x Hard & 1x Medium - your choice, depending on preferred character and their relative attacks per button input basis. I play using a Pro Controller, so you can use 4x Face buttons (like a NeoGeo layout, funnily enough) and RH Shoulder. NOT... that bad tbh. I tend to map 2x Medium and 2x Hard to the face buttons and LP to RHS and LK to keypad. But, about the gameplay itself. Several issues: Firstly, when ever you attack the opponent, as you all know, all the opponent does is block, block, BLOCK! However, there IS a little more going on than you might realise. The game is actually cheating! Now, some of you more savvy about fighters will probably get this. The CPU actually cancels/interrupts their own attack animation with the block command. This means that. technically, whilst on the ground (as their is no mid-air block) the computer will ALWAYS interrupt/cancel their attack if YOU counter. Meaning, unless you throw the opponent, you will VERY RARELY, IF EVER hit the opponent whilst on the ground. If you will, block is done in-game a la Street Fighter; hold back to block. However, it's almost as though the CPU uses (in laymans terms) button style blocking, like Mortal Kombat or Virtua Fighter, enabling it to automatically cancel any of it's attacks mid frame/animation. Yeah... Broken. That's the main one. However, there's more. The game doesn't allow you to cancel QC motions from standard attacks mid frame (not that there are any real frames to speak of, but most of these characters moves have approx 3 frames of animation - Stand: Chamber > Execute > Chamber: back to Stand). QC motions should be cancellable (in most 2D fighters) on the move being executed and connecting with the opponent. You can't do that in this game (think Street Fighter, when you accidentally fumble a fireball up-close and you do a crouching uppercut INTO a fireball. That's a cancel). The game doesn't allow you to "buffer" charge moves either. So, when using Bimmy & Jimmy and you wish to use their Fireball attach (Charge < then > +P) you can't be buffering whlst doing other moves. Again, something you can do in other 2D fighters. You have to go out of you way to charge and then execute the move, which, if you are playing 2P, is MASSIVELY obvious as you both probably know each characters moves (Bimmy & Jimmy specifically). Also, you cannot jump over you opponent at will. You hit an invisible wall in mid air. Lame as f*ck. This also breaks for game for obvious reasons I won't elaborate on. You CAN, very rarely get over them (happened to me ONCE the other night) but, out of a 100% ratio, 95% of the time, you won't jump over the other character. The gameplay also crunches down to a a terrible slowdown fest at points in the game. The music and gameplay just slow right down, almost like there is a scratch on the non-existent disc! This happens on the 64-BIT Jaguar Multimedia System when the going gets tough in game. Embarrassing. SOUND: Now, I haven't played the SNES or MD versions of this game, but will admit, I am now tempted to pick up one of the two (probably MD tbh) just to compare various aspects of both games. Now... I've listened to the OST for all 3 games, the MD & SNES via YouTube. I find it a bit weird saying this, but so far, I like the Jag music compositions and instrumental arrangements the best of the 3. Objectively, the SNES is probably the best, but... I really like the sound of most of the Jaguar versions > the others. Especially Metro City Hotel and Outside the Shadow Dojo, as well as the character select screen. As mentioned earlier though, the sound can be really badly effected by what's going on in game, often causing music to play out of key and warble, like when you emulate games on your PC. SFX are just the usual average fair. Nothing of note here. OTHER/CONTENT/ETC: So, this is an intriguing one for me. The game consists of the usual 8 character fare found in Street Fighter 2 at the time. However, the other 16-bit versions have 10 characters. Seemingly, to break it down: MD/GEN & SNES have 10x characters plus 2x bosses (selectable/playable via code/in vs) - one of which, is Dominique. The other is the Shadow Master. JAGUAR has 8x characters, one of which is Dominique - right off the bat. So, technically, there are THREE characters missing from the Jag version: Blade, Trigger Happy and Icepick. All of which look decent. Icepick, especially. However, if you go and grab your DDV box out of storage/off the shelf, you'll see characters listed on the back of the box, NOT INCLUDED in the game and that 1st bold bullet point: "12 big lightning fast characters": So far, as much as I can ascertain, vs the Jaguar version... this is all lies. Also, there's a website called "Doube Dragon Dojo". My DDV research took me there. I found this little excerpt (re: GEN version) that I found intriguing: "This game was originally designed for the Jaguar, then ported to the 16-bit systems" (http://doubledragon.kontek.net/games/ddv/rddvgen.html) Really? I don't see this as being true and I would assume it's a hypothetical opinion based on how 3 versions all turned out(?), however... if it IS true, then that would at least be entertaining to think about and even WORSE, from a technical standpoint: Designed for Jaguar and superior versions were PORTED to the MD & SNES! Anyway, sorry to end this so abruptly, but the whole game became an intrigue for me for a couple of days. I thought I'd share my findings/feelings on the matter. FWIW, this game is STILL more enjoyable/playable than FFLife... Edited April 2, 2015 by NeoGeoNinja 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felyx Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 20 years after its release, we eventually found someone who had fun with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'm not personally familar with the game, other than laughing at it, when i saw it running on a Jaguar Promo VHS tape i bought years ago from Telegames (this along with Aircars etc, were not the best adverts for the Jaguar :-) ).... But are'nt the music, sound effects and speech etc all toned down from the MD/SNES versions along with smaller sprites etc?.Only 'improvements' are extra colours used?. It sounds like a port to myself, not sure where the other site got the idea game was originally designed for Jaguar, perhaps it was originally planned to lead on Jaguar, then get conversions to the 16 Bit systems, but developers simply went for the massive installed user base of both SNES and MD and then opted for a quick port to the Jaguar via the 68000 route so many others did and just wanted the damn thing out and at retail, whilst there was still a commercial market for the Jag, cue missing characters and box blurb, not matching actual game?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 This will probably be the last game I pick up for the Jaguar, when I need it for my oh-so-close to complete retail collection... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAGUAR Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tImdj0k-1h4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jeremiahjt Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Did you beat it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 20 years after its release, we eventually found someone who had fun with it Not sure if "this game is STILL more enjoyable/playable than FFLife" is really the accreditation that gives the impression that DDV was or is 'fun', at any point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 This may be one game that even the nuttiest of our Jaguar mental patients won't defend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Game is truly horrendous, but still better than FFL - ringing endorsement! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Did you beat it? Belongs elsewhere: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/236685-jag-games-you-have-beaten-off-to/ 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynxJagLunatic Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Glad you enjoyed that game. For me I really like Supercross 3D. I played through the tournament mode and had a really good time with it. If you can ignore all the bad points of the game it's decent and fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 If you ignored all the bad points, there'd be nothing left to look at. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Glad you enjoyed that game. What part of his write-up leads you to believe he enjoyed the game? Was it, "Shitty, is no doubt, the optimum word that pops into my head."? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynxJagLunatic Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Just a little sarcasm on my part. Both games are horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete5125 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Believe it or not the grafix where based off the Animated Series that was airing on USA Network at that time, the game is the best version of DD5 that came out...it just had a lot going against it, Double Dragon fans where looking for a side scroller....Street Fighter 2 was such a hit that everyone had joined that band wagon, from ShaqFu, to looney Toons, to JLA, etc. their where a ton of Street Fighter clones. This was an average Street Fighter clone and ver 16 bit looking at that with horrendous control. Otherwise it was an OK game at a time that videogamers had an love affair with fighters something the Jag sucked at and one of the many reasons the system bombed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Good review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 It's been 6 months since I put this 'piece' of research together. Came across it accidentally but thought I'd 'bump' it, just in case anyone missed it first time around who may want to have a look at it. FWIW, I really haven't touched DDV since writing this, however, if held at gun point and asked "Which is the worst fighting game for the Jaguar?!" I'd still answer: "Fight for Life" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LianneJaguar64 Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Actually, I really want to get this one... I love the Double Dragon series (even if I suck at it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 Actually, I really want to get this one... I love the Double Dragon series (even if I suck at it) You realise this is a one-on-one fighter (like Kasumi Ninja) and not a scrolling beat em up... right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LianneJaguar64 Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 You realise this is a one-on-one fighter (like Kasumi Ninja) and not a scrolling beat em up... right? Oh... That suddenly sounds bad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 Oh... That suddenly sounds bad... I know, right? However, Technos managed a really decent one-on-one variant on the NeoGeo, only 9 months after the Jaguar/SNES/MD version released so, no excuse really. The irony is, BOTH the NeoGeo and the Jaguar would have both benefitted immensely from both games being scrolling beat em ups instead tbh. The NeoGeo didn't 'need' another fighter and the Jaguar didn't need another lazy subpar 16-bit port... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporadic Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 The Jag so badly needs a scrolling beat em up too. An arcade port of Double Dragon (1) would have been amazing, or one of the similar classics. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Glad you enjoyed that game. For me I really like Supercross 3D. I played through the tournament mode and had a really good time with it. If you can ignore all the bad points of the game it's decent and fun. I genuinely try to understand others' perspectives when enjoying games, since it's absolutely subjective, but "really liking" Supercross 3D may cross some divide for me that can't be bridged. Other than looking really good when not in motion, the frame rate is one of the worst ever for a retail release, making it all but unplayable. You literally have to time the dropped frames in order to have any semblance of control over the bike. As was stated before, between Highlander, Fight for Life, Supercross 3D, etc., these forums seem to be absolute proof that there are no games out there that can't be liked by someone. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised to find fans of Superman 64, although I'm not too keen on looking. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sd32 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 The Jag so badly needs a scrolling beat em up too. An arcade port of Double Dragon (1) would have been amazing, or one of the similar classics. If we are gonna dream about it, a homebrew port of the Zeebo version of Double Dragon would rock. Its go enhanced graphics and music, but i dont think its that far from what the Jag can manage. As for DDV...Tradewest choose 2 of its worst games to publish on the Jaguar, this and Troy Aikman Football. Its clear DDV had zero invovelment from the creators of the Double Dragon franchise, Technos. Its a shame they allowed Tradewest to tarnish the DD legacy with such a terrible game, and even letting them use the number 5, as if it was part of the main series. If only Tradewest had released Battletoads and Double Dragon for the Jaguar instead of DDV... but that other game was made by Rare, and maybe they didnt want to have anything to do with the Jag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 If we are gonna dream about it, a homebrew port of the Zeebo version of Double Dragon would rock. Its go enhanced graphics and music, but i dont think its that far from what the Jag can manage. As for DDV...Tradewest choose 2 of its worst games to publish on the Jaguar, this and Troy Aikman Football. Its clear DDV had zero invovelment from the creators of the Double Dragon franchise, Technos. Its a shame they allowed Tradewest to tarnish the DD legacy with such a terrible game, and even letting them use the number 5, as if it was part of the main series. If only Tradewest had released Battletoads and Double Dragon for the Jaguar instead of DDV... but that other game was made by Rare, and maybe they didnt want to have anything to do with the Jag. Unfortunately, the Jaguar is the console that, had we not received DDV... we would have been 'gifted' an Arcade Perfect port of DD3 instead A no win situation, for sure... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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