Mario Bros XE

[+Stephen]

There's the rub. I didn't choose to go the AtariMax way. I instead went with a SIO2PC USB cable from (a vendor who shall not be named) and am loading ATR images from my hard drive via the Aspeqt peripheral emulator. It's working OK but not quite perfectly. Who knows, maybe I made the wrong choice. I went back and forth as to which to choose and finally settled on this method. Anyway, that's why I need an ATR image, so that my software might have the chance to *maybe* boot it.

If I understand correctly, you are using the MaxFlash cart studio. I am pretty sure the only ATR that will create is one for burning one of the MAaxFlash carts. This will not make a bootable ATR of the game.

[SS]

Thanks Stephen. At least then I know that I'm not missing something completely obvious then. A bootable ATR is what I was attempting to make. It is very possible that I am out of luck here and didn't quite understand what tep392 was telling me in the first place.

[tep392]

I said you could run off a maxflash cart. The advantage is a cheaper cart compared to the original. You can't run off a disk. You need the extra RAM in the machine or extra ROM in a cart.

[SS]

Thanks, I think that I've got it through my thick skull now. Maybe I should have gone the AtariMax cart route instead. Ah well, maybe I will get one in the future anyway. Thanks for all your help.

[tep392]

I like the Maxflash carts but their main problem is the lack of flexibility in supporting multiple bank switching schemes. If you are going to use a cart to run the bank switched games that won't work within your 64k RAM limit, then you probably want to get a cart that supports more formats. Or, maybe consider installing a RAM upgrade, since you already have the SIO2PC for file loading. That would open up the opportunity for a lot more software.

[SS]

Actually, what I am hoping is that there will be a second run of THE!CART sometime soon. Then I *should* be able to write to it with my SIO2PC cable and it does support a huge number of disc and cart types as well as file formats.

[Marius]

Actually, what I am hoping is that there will be a second run of THE!CART sometime soon. Then I *should* be able to write to it with my SIO2PC cable and it does support a huge number of disc and cart types as well as file formats.

 

The!Cart is -indeed- one of the finest and most versatile cart solutions there is at this moment.

 

If you are interested in read/write features, you might consider (also) get a AtariMax MyIDE ][ interface. That one will run your Mario BROS XE cart also on 64K machines.

[Wilheim]

Bumping this thread.

 

Interesting way to make the XE games work on an Atarimax cartridge. Has anyone tried this technique with Commando?

 

Besides, I see that Mario Bros is lacking sound effects. Have anyone tried to solve it?

Edited October 8, 2021 by Wilheim
Adding some more.

[johannesmutlu]

On 4/6/2015 at 12:33 PM, tep392 said:

I modified the games to run on 64k machines using the Atarimax cart bank switch method. They run great on my 800XL.

Hi did you also moddified that game to run on a stock atari 400 system??

it would be cool to have that version ,

even if that game would be still 64K,you could in theory put a mapper,moddify that game around it and break that game into chunks of 8K to make it run on a stock atari 400 ,

either way whether your version do have to sacrify stuff or use bankswitching tricks or whether it’s the 5200 ported to the atari 400,it would be cool anyway whether in disk or cassette form or as a homebrew cartride,

it makes me wonder why atari didn’t had think of that once making the atari xe version,because i have bought that version on enay (not knowing being incompatible with the atari 400)

i am very frustrated about this since i paid over €100 euros for it,and while my atari 400 is yet about to arrive any soon,i still do need a power supply for it,so thus wasting more time & money then neccesary,also my atari 400 hasn’t be even tested so i had to hope for the best with other games anyway,at the otherhand it is good to realize that mariobros on the xe is sadly not compatible on the atari 400 or otherwise i would,ve consider my atari 400 to be not working,only time will tell,but still,am very fristrated about this,atari made atleast 7 different 8bit systems based on the same hardware with only some ram size differences between those machines,on the 6200 some of those memory locations are even different,this adding lots of confusion among consumers and sellers because of all those games with their own ram requirments per system,OUCH.

the thing is that seller wasn’t probably aware in that mariobros isn’compatible with the atari 400,same problem with many youtubers,

and i am look HOTDAMNIT,such misleading and confusion,

anyway thanks alot.

[tep392]

I don't recall exactly what I did, but I left the code running in the cartridge space from 8000-BFFF, like the XEGS cart.  The Atarimax cart only banks 8k at A000-BFFF, so I loaded the fixed 8k bank into RAM at 8000-9FFF.  I don't know how much RAM below 8000 is used and I don't think I never tried it on my 400 or 800, which which are both 48k machines.  

[Wilheim]

1 hour ago, tep392 said:

I don't recall exactly what I did, but I left the code running in the cartridge space from 8000-BFFF, like the XEGS cart.  The Atarimax cart only banks 8k at A000-BFFF, so I loaded the fixed 8k bank into RAM at 8000-9FFF.  I don't know how much RAM below 8000 is used and I don't think I never tried it on my 400 or 800, which which are both 48k machines.  

Interesting. Have you tried this technique with Commando?

[tep392]

2 hours ago, Wilheim said:

Interesting. Have you tried this technique with Commando?

I did if for Commando, Mario Bros and Battle Zone.  All were posted in the Atarimax forum.

[Wilheim]

1 hour ago, tep392 said:

I did if for Commando, Mario Bros and Battle Zone.  All were posted in the Atarimax forum.

I found for Battlezone and Mario

Bros, but not for Commando. Is it possible to share it? Thanks!

[_The Doctor__]

It's on the AtariMax Forums is what I gathered.

[tep392]

I guess I never posted Commando.  I'll look for it in my files and post later.

[Wilheim]

On 10/10/2023 at 12:38 AM, tep392 said:

I guess I never posted Commando.  I'll look for it in my files and post later.

Hi! Have you found Commando in your files?

[tep392]

I checked the files on my computer but couldn't find any of the Atarimax stuff.  I'll take a look on my backup drive when I get a chance.

[tep392]

I found the files!  I made them for both 1mb and 8mb Atarimax carts. These are workbook files so you open them up in Maxflash Studio and program the cart from there.

 

commando_1mb_Maxflash.mcwcommando_8mb_Maxflash.mcw

[Wilheim]

Thank you!

 

unfortunately, there’s some

glitches in the graphics. I’ll take a look into it.

[johannesmutlu]

On 10/9/2023 at 7:34 PM, tep392 said:

I don't recall exactly what I did, but I left the code running in the cartridge space from 8000-BFFF, like the XEGS cart.  The Atarimax cart only banks 8k at A000-BFFF, so I loaded the fixed 8k bank into RAM at 8000-9FFF.  I don't know how much RAM below 8000 is used and I don't think I never tried it on my 400 or 800, which which are both 48k machines.  

Well,for what i do know there was a mariobros demo for the stock atari 400 back in 1983 wich looks and plays similar to the 5200 version of mariobros,but it never passed it’s prototype stage to be ever released,no,

it would be great to see a physical release of such version by a homebrewer,

if that demo version is far from complete (wich i doubt),well it would be cool to see a 5200 port to the atari 400,why atari had to make a specific xe version is beyond me,yeah that version is 64KB and so it does take full advantage of the 64KB of ram from that console,BUT what if we could port that version to the stock atari 400 by splitting the game into sections of 8KB and then bankswitch those parts trough a mapper once needed,and design the colorpallet with the ctia chip in mind as well to take the least powerful atari 400 version in mind while still taking benefit off the extra content trough software bankswitching,would be great sothat more atari users could get access to that game without the need for upgrading their atari 400 computer,

now all i know is that my atari 400 has 16KB ram but not sure if it has a ctia chip in it or a gtia chip,

otherwise it would be more neccesary to see the demo version or a ported 5200 version of mariobros running on an actual stock atari 400 system.

accordingly those screenshots are from the atari 400 demo BUT it would be really cool to see it running on a stock atari 400 system on youtube but so far nobody has ever done that.

 

[johannesmutlu]

On 4/6/2015 at 6:19 AM, Rybags said:

The Atarimax cart version probably won't do you any good either. It's likely just the executable file which will want 128K Ram.

Problem is, Mario Bros XE is a 64K cart where the lower 8K bank switches and top 8K bank is fixed. Atarimax carts only have the top bank which is switchable.

Hi,if xe mariobros lowest and highest 8KB bank is fixed,does it mean that in between those banks could be 2 times 16KB of banks,or are all banks from that game just 8KB???

i know that game is 64KB and it doesn’t work on 32KB systems,so i suppose that it has to load it’s whole game into that 64KB of ram from the atari xe or 800XL etc,,, and then bankswitch stuff from there into chuncks of 8KB to the system’s workram i suppose (aka cassettetape games)

if that’s the case then i wouldn’t be surprised why it wouldn’t work on atari systems with lower amount of ram,

BUT i was thinking what if we could just tell the game to only load 8KB of data into the ram of the atari system and then load the other 8KB of data into it once needed by refreshing the ram trough a hardreset to clear that ram,thus bankswitching stuff wich should be done by an external mapper (aka advanced nes games),

this way we might be able to run mariobros in 64KB form on a atari 400 with 16KB of ram,,,,

unless it’s impossible to do a hardreset or ram isolation trick on the atari 400 to clear it’s ram,in such case then it is indead impossible to do bankswitching externally,but again i am not sure about that,

thing is am curious if more could be done on a stock atari 400 without upgrading the ram trough modding and mariobros 64KB would be a great example of this IF,

otherwise we might have to take enough with a 5200 port of 16KB mariobros on the atari 400 by a homebrewer,till then i can only speculate.

 

[tep392]

50 minutes ago, johannesmutlu said:

Hi,if xe mariobros lowest and highest 8KB bank is fixed,does it mean that in between those banks could be 2 times 16KB of banks,or are all banks from that game just 8KB???

i know that game is 64KB and it doesn’t work on 32KB systems,so i suppose that it has to load it’s whole game into that 64KB of ram from the atari xe or 800XL etc,,, and then bankswitch stuff from there into chuncks of 8KB to the system’s workram i suppose (aka cassettetape games)

if that’s the case then i wouldn’t be surprised why it wouldn’t work on atari systems with lower amount of ram,

BUT i was thinking what if we could just tell the game to only load 8KB of data into the ram of the atari system and then load the other 8KB of data into it once needed by refreshing the ram trough a hardreset to clear that ram,thus bankswitching stuff wich should be done by an external mapper (aka advanced nes games),

this way we might be able to run mariobros in 64KB form on a atari 400 with 16KB of ram,,,,

unless it’s impossible to do a hardreset or ram isolation trick on the atari 400 to clear it’s ram,in such case then it is indead impossible to do bankswitching externally,but again i am not sure about that,

thing is am curious if more could be done on a stock atari 400 without upgrading the ram trough modding and mariobros 64KB would be a great example of this IF,

otherwise we might have to take enough with a 5200 port of 16KB mariobros on the atari 400 by a homebrewer,till then i can only speculate.

 

The XE cart has a fixed 8k and the rest 8k banks.  The program runs out of the same 16k of address space that  all other Atari carts use.  The game probably loads some of the code into RAM, but in general.  Don't forget that RAM is also needed for variables, screen display memory and likely space for fonts and graphics.  I'm guessing that a lot of the space on the cart is for banking in the graphics required the various screens. This requirement could be substantial depending on how the game was designed.  Trying to make the game run on a lesser machine is going to be an enormous task, if at all possible, so don't expect any programmer to take that on any time soon.

 

The ATR version that was hacked to run on 128k machines uses the extra 64k of RAM as a replacement for the 64k cartridge.  Essentially, all the cartridge banks get copied into the top 64k of RAM.  Code was relocated because RAM is banked at a different location, but they way the game manages memory and banks was not altered.

 

Finally, the Atarimax version I made was done so I could play the game on my 64k 800XL.  I relocated the code to be compatible with the banking of the Atarimax cart, but I didn't change how the game runs.  It was just a relocation exercise.  And again, making the game run on a machine with less RAM is a substantially more difficult task.