New discovery: Get Master Sys ctlrs to work w/ Edladdin Seagull78 adapter

[ave1]

I recently purchased the Seagull78 Genesis-to-Atari-7800 controller adapter made by Edladdin and am enjoying my 7800 games with Genesis controllers of various types (both buttons work- not just one!). One thing I initially thought about when I got it was the possibility of using it to put my Sega Master System 2 button "Control Stick" and Sega M.S. gamepad into use on my 7800 (Since Master System and Genesis controllers are supposedly interchangeable).

 

Well, I tried this and both buttons on each M.S. controller that I plugged in didn't function. I was somewhat puzzled that this was an issue since the Master System 1 and 2 buttons are supposed to directly correspond to the Genesis B and C buttons (which are the buttons that the Edladdin adapter enables). I figured that since Button 1 on the M.S. controller is also simultaneously a "Start" button (unlike the Genesis controller which has its oown independent "Start" button) that this must somehow cause a conflict that prevents it from being able to work with the adapter.

 

At this point I was thinking about modding my Master System Control Stick (which actually has the stick on the right and buttons on the left as a 2600 controller does) to be a two-button-functioning 7800 controller using a tutorial here: http://m.instructables.com/id/Retro-Atari-7800-Mod-Sega-Master-System-controlle/

 

This mod involves using a desoldering tool (which i don't own and have zero experience using) and sacrificing a 7800 controller, so I'm sure you can imagine I was hesitant to get started on the project.

 

My thoughts went back to the Edladdin adapter- could there be something I could do to it that might suddenly get it working with my Master System controllers? Then something occurred to me: I own a somewhat hard-to-find device called the Master System Autofire adapter which is shown here: http://www.ecrater.com/p/19918192/rapid-fire-control-stick-sega?gps=1&id=80959801219

 

What if I plugged my controller into it and then connected the Edladdin adapter up to it and my 7800?

 

I got brave and connected it all together...

 

http://imgur.com/Nt8wAFY

http://imgur.com/pxf3nHt

 

And- believe it or not- now my Master System controllers are fully functioning on my two button Atari 7800 games! True story

 

There are two great things about the Master System Control Stick that makes it desirable for 7800 gamers. I've found it to offer great response/accuracy. The joystick is grasped by the right hand and thus has that Atari 2600 feel to it when you cradle it within both hands- with your left thumb handling the button presses. My gameplay experience with it has been exceptional, and I can't say enough good things about it.

 

Now, I realize the Master System Autofire adapter is not readily available and that few people will get to try this, so I am intending on buying a Genesis to Atari auto-fire-enabling controller adapter from Best Electronics to see if things will work properly when plugged in with this as it was with the Master System auto-fire adapter. Maybe I can arrange for a group order to lower expenses of shipping for those who want to get in on it (assuming it works). I'll report back here when I find out what the deal is.

 

Needless to say, I am pretty excited about this discovery.

[ave1]

Oh, and one more thing. This could open up some possibilities with using a two button trackball (Master System Sportspad by Sega)... I need to get one of these to try on Alien Brigade. It might require a rewire, though...

[KevinMos3]

Yeah, I've used various Master System controllers with my converter box over the years and I assume those edladdin converters work the same way. There are some 3rd party Master System controllers that are very nice.

[ave1]

Yes- When it comes to appreciating classic games, Master System joystick controllers can really make your day just like the Genesis controllers can

 

Also, I have now tried the Seagull78 connected to a Tototek Playstation to Megadrive(Genesis)/MasterSystem adapter. This is working great as well. With the two adapters connected, this evening I successfully gamed with my Playstation controller with two working buttons on my 7800. Now this is very cool. You can use high quality Playstation One flight sticks or fight sticks... and even a favorite of mine- the Radica (Gamester) Phoenix PS2 controller- with it's switchable modules allowing for a joystick on the right side of the controller and buttons on the left. I'm also looking forward to trying out my version 2 Logitech wireless PS2 gamepad. Talk about opening up possibilities!

 

This Tototek adapter is found here: http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=23&products_id=54

 

$18 isn't bad. Hopefully they keep these in stock for a long time.

Edited May 9, 2015 by ave1

[ave1]

Just reporting back here because I managed to buy a Sega Sports Pad today (Sega's North American version of a trackball for the Master System). Once I got it plugged into the Seagull78 Genesis to 7800 adapter I was up and running with nice trackball control on a number of 7800 games including Centipede, Planet Smashers, and Choplifter. The latter two games worked as they should with the two buttons acting independently. It's also good that I didn't have to plug in the Autofire adapter for it to work properly like I did with the other two Master System controllers :)

 

I'll definitely be trying out Alien Brigade as well as some 2600 games like Missile Command and Millipede...

Edited May 17, 2015 by ave1

[Smoke Monster]

Is the sports pad a nice trackball? Did you run it through the auto-fire adapter too?

[ave1]

Is the sports pad a nice trackball? Did you run it through the auto-fire adapter too?

It definitely has a good quality arcade feel when you roll it around. I am convinced that whoever was behind engineering this product for Sega had prior experience doing it for arcade games...

 

I will try it with the Auto-fire adapter on my Alien Brigade game this evening and let you know how it works out.

[ave1]

Well, the Auto-fire adapter definitely works when connected between the trackball and the Seagull 78. I enjoyed playing Asteroids with the Autofire turned on and then played a little with it off. One thing I learned is that using auto-fire allows you to really rack up a high score by blasting everything to smithereens... Kinda like having a semi-automatic weapon instead of a single shot rifle to play the game!

 

I also played a couple cursor-aiming games, Crack'ed and Alien Brigade, quite effectively with the trackball Sega Sports Pad. I am definitely a fan of Alien Brigade.

 

There are no complaints here- it's a nice way to be getting back to enjoying my 7800 favorites.

[edladdin]

Thanks for the shout-out! I am really happy you were able to come to this novel solution and take the game play up another notch. :-)

[ave1]

I'm very grateful to you, Ed, for getting this adapter into the hands of many happy classic gamers! I've really been enjoying my games more than ever

 

As stated in my first post, My intent was to get something from Best Electronics to try an experiment on Master System game controllers connected to the Seagull 78. What I stated was this, "Now, I realize the Master System Autofire adapter is not readily available and that few people will get to try this, so I am intending on buying a Genesis to Atari auto-fire-enabling controller adapter from Best Electronics to see if things will work properly when plugged in with this as it was with the Master System auto-fire adapter."

 

It goes by the name 'B.E.s Sega Controller to Atari Systems adapter Cable' and enables Genesis controllers or Master System controllers with an Auto fire feature to effectively put into use their auto fire on Atari game consoles. I thought this cable might be able to get the Master System controllers (gamepad or control stick) to become compatible with the Seagull 78 on the 7800 as the Master System Auto fire adapter had...

 

Verdict: It doesn't get the job done.

 

When I got it all put together, the left and right buttons were constantly firing. Pressing a button stops the firing. Oh well.

 

My next experiments will have something to do with the Colecovision and playing around with some of my cables and controllers in different configurations. If something positive happens I will be making a post in the Colecovision forum here within the next couple days. All I can do is try, right?

[Lynxpro]

It's been asked over at Facebook whether the Edladdin adapter will allow a Sega Master System Phaser gun to work with 7800 light gun games without having to rewire the light gun..

 

As for the Sega Sports Pad, that's really cool that it works, however, it's just emulating the joystick. You'd have to get specific code in there to directly support it so that it enables a native "sports pad" mode just as has been done on 7800 Centipede-TB to give it native Trak-Ball support for the CX-80 and CX-22 Trak-Balls.

 

I do have one more question…has anyone ever heard of Sega controllers burning out Atari controller ports? It was said in one conversation at the Davis Atari Party that Sega [Genesis] controllers with rapid fire modes can fry Atari joystick ports when they are directly plugged in without an adapter… Anyone else ever heard of this or unfortunately experienced this? It's possibly this might only impact Atari 8-bit computers and not the 7800.

[Trebor]

It's been asked over at Facebook whether the Edladdin adapter will allow a Sega Master System Phaser gun to work with 7800 light gun games without having to rewire the light gun..

 

It will likely fall more dependent on the type of detection method the SMS Phaser uses. If it is like the NES Zapper and uses "Sequential Targets" method, it will definitely not work.

 

If it is like the Super Nintendo Super Scope 6 and computer light pens, utilizing the "Cathode Ray Timing" method, it may work, as that is utilized by Atari.

 

I do have one more question…has anyone ever heard of Sega controllers burning out Atari controller ports?

I have not heard any stories of it happening to the Atari controller ports. It definitely can and has happened to C64 computers though.

 

Reason and Solution:

 

"...(J)oysticks (which the game ports were intended to support) either pull the lines low (when active) or are an open connection (when inactive). This latter condition allows the lines to be pulled low by other sources (they keyboard for example).

 

Sega gamepads, on the other hand, pull inactive lines HIGH. Now if you press a key on the keyboard with one of these devices plugged in, one source is pulling the line high while another I/O line (cross-connected through the keyboard) is trying to drag it down. This can put an extra strain on the CIA chip, as the circuit wasn't designed to deal with this kind of situation.

 

The proper thing to do is to block the high signals from the Sega gamepad, while allowing the low signals to get through. This will protect the CIA chip, and allow you to use your keyboard normally with the gamepad plugged in..."

 

The Atari 8-bit computers - due to the keyboard utilization - may be in danger if there's a similar strain. However, Atari consoles should be fine as that keyboard factor is obviously not present.

[+GoldenWheels]

 

I do have one more question…has anyone ever heard of Sega controllers burning out Atari controller ports? It was said in one conversation at the Davis Atari Party that Sega [Genesis] controllers with rapid fire modes can fry Atari joystick ports when they are directly plugged in without an adapter… Anyone else ever heard of this or unfortunately experienced this? It's possibly this might only impact Atari 8-bit computers and not the 7800.

 

I've been using an "Owl Pad" Genesis controller with separate turbo buttons (and I use the turbos frequently) on the same 7800 for several years. Never had any issues.

 

I've used them on my XE as well but since I like 7800 Joust much better, I rarely play my XE any more. Can't say I used it long enough to rule anything out there. However, I don't have the keyboard either.

[ave1]

Lynxpro, I have a friend who owns a Master System lightgun. I am going to see if he'll get it outta storage and let me try it on the 7800 with the Edladdin adapter. We'll see what happens...

 

Also, the Sega Sportspad is apparently doing a top-notch job emulating the joystick on my 2600 and 7800 trackball games- not sure a Sportspad mode is really all that necessary because it really feels great to me the way it is.

 

Trebor, I now have a B.E.'s Genesis to Atari controller adapter from Best Electronics. According to the literature it came with, it supposedly helps out with Autofire Genesis controllers on Atari computers (as well as consoles), but nothing in the literature says anything about the dangers of frying ports with Genesis controllers. I do have to wonder if Best Electronics (B.E.) made these with that issue in mind, though. Maybe I'll give em a phone call.

 

GoldenWheels- that's good to know about the Owl controller. WRT the XE computers I will say that Millipede might make it worth getting the thing out for another play session- forget about Joust...

Edited May 29, 2015 by ave1

[Lynxpro]

Lynxpro, I have a friend who owns a Master System lightgun. I am going to see if he'll get it outta storage and let me try it on the 7800 with the Edladdin adapter. We'll see what happens...

 

Also, the Sega Sportspad is apparently doing a top-notch job emulating the joystick on my 2600 and 7800 trackball games- not sure a Sportspad mode is really all that necessary because it really feels great to me the way it is.

 

Trebor, I now have a B.E.'s Genesis to Atari controller adapter from Best Electronics. According to the literature it came with, it supposedly helps out with Autofire Genesis controllers on Atari computers (as well as consoles), but nothing in the literature says anything about the dangers of frying ports with Genesis controllers. I do have to wonder if Best Electronics (B.E.) made these with that issue in mind, though. Maybe I'll give em a phone call.

 

GoldenWheels- that's good to know about the Owl controller. WRT the XE computers I will say that Millipede might make it worth getting the thing out for another play session- forget about Joust...

 

Does the Best Electronics adapter support the 7800s second fire button with Genesis/SMS controllers?

 

I'd imagine the 7800 game that one should really try the Sega Sports Pad with would be Crack'ed.

[ave1]

The Best Electronics Controller adapter (Genesis to Atari) only allows for one fire button to work on any Atari system except for the Atari ST computer which has two buttons in action (the second one is right click mouse). Edladdin's Seagull 78 is the only commercially made full-compatibilty Atari 7800 controller adapter out right now.

 

I did try the trackball on Crack'ed and found the gunsite motion to be slightly on the slow side. Crossbow and Alien Brigade seemed to work great (pretty fast aiming) with the Sega Sportspad, though.

[Lynxpro]

The Best Electronics Controller adapter (Genesis to Atari) only allows for one fire button to work on any Atari system except for the Atari ST computer which has two buttons in action (the second one is right click mouse). Edladdin's Seagull 78 is the only commercially made full-compatibilty Atari 7800 controller adapter out right now.

 

I did try the trackball on Crack'ed and found the gunsite motion to be slightly on the slow side. Crossbow and Alien Brigade seemed to work great (pretty fast aiming) with the Sega Sportspad, though.

 

Thanks for the info, Ave1. The light gun games really do need native Trak-Ball support added to them. Bummer that Crack'ed doesn't work well with the Sega Sports Pad since with the Edladdin adapter, it supports both 7800 fire buttons. I guess we'll just have to see some people mod the CX-22 or CX-80 Trak-Balls to have a second [or 3rd] fire button on them to see how well they'd work. The person responsible for the 5200 Podcast just modded a CX-22 to have 3 fire buttons [cherry switch buttons] but I'm not sure if he did that to play the Missile Command+ hack on A8 or if he's eagerly anticipating the release of the internal-Atari Inc 3 Base Missile Command for A8 which there's only 1 copy in existence still.

[+save2600]

Boy, you must really like those SMS controllers! Never cared for them myself as the square pad never felt right to me. Funny how diagonals are easier to pull off with just a cross to press down on.

 

Anywho, bought a pair of Ed's Seagull's for my 7800 and already had the best pad (IMO) to use them with - Sega 6-button controllers. Someone recently complained that the directional pads on them sit up too high, didn't like the buttons, etc. Humbug! I think the 6-button Sega's are excellent and feel "just right" by my hands and thumbs. Original 3-button Sega pad always felt a little strange to me as well. Cross is too large and sunken in IMO.

 

Didn't mean to thread crap but if you haven't tried a 6-button Genesis pad yet, might be just the ticket!

[+GoldenWheels]

Ha that may have been me....I don't like the Sega 6 buttons and those are indeed my complaints. To each his own.

[Lynxpro]

Boy, you must really like those SMS controllers! Never cared for them myself as the square pad never felt right to me. Funny how diagonals are easier to pull off with just a cross to press down on.

 

Anywho, bought a pair of Ed's Seagull's for my 7800 and already had the best pad (IMO) to use them with - Sega 6-button controllers. Someone recently complained that the directional pads on them sit up too high, didn't like the buttons, etc. Humbug! I think the 6-button Sega's are excellent and feel "just right" by my hands and thumbs. Original 3-button Sega pad always felt a little strange to me as well. Cross is too large and sunken in IMO.

 

Didn't mean to thread crap but if you haven't tried a 6-button Genesis pad yet, might be just the ticket!

 

I think it's a bit cramped having 6 fire buttons on it. Same with the Retrobit clone which is very squishy with the buttons. I prefer the original 3-button Genesis pads or the Tengen variants with the turbo functionality built-in.

[ave1]

I have a Competition Pro Genesis controller which is my preferred Sega Pad- a six button (with each button of the top row being kinda long and narrow)... feels great in my hands and works well with the adapter on the 7800

 

I'm still waiting on hearing from my friend about that M.S. Lightgun...

Edited June 2, 2015 by ave1

[ave1]

Just an update for Trebor. I called Best Electronics and spoke to a knowledgable company rep about the B.E.'s Genesis to Atari systems cable, and he told me that- when it comes to Atari systems- the Genesis controllers have one pin that's not properly wired to allow autofire to work. This adapter resets the pin to the "right" wire. He said that in his 20 years of experience at Best, he has never encountered complaints of Genesis controllers burning out Atari computer or console controller ports (but cautioned me about the risks of using third party Genesis controllers with additional features).

 

So, of course, after hearing this I plugged in my SG78 and a SNES-like Genesis controller (with L & R shoulder buttons) on my 7800- the SG Propad: http://www.lukiegames.com/Sega-Genesis-SG-Propad-3-button-Turbo-Controller_p_17379.html The option of using shoulder buttons on the controller makes for a completely new experience- and it fortunately didn`t burn out my controller port! So many new ways to enjoy my old games with the SG78...

Edited June 5, 2015 by ave1

[Trebor]

Just an update for Trebor. I called Best Electronics and spoke to a knowledgable company rep about the B.E.'s Genesis to Atari systems cable, and he told me that- when it comes to Atari systems- the Genesis controllers have one pin that's not properly wired to allow autofire to work. This adapter resets the pin to the "right" wire. He said that in his 20 years of experience at Best, he has never encountered complaints of Genesis controllers burning out Atari computer or console controller ports (but cautioned me about the risks of using third party Genesis controllers with additional features).

 

So, of course, after hearing this I plugged in my SG78 and a SNES-like Genesis controller (with L & R shoulder buttons) on my 7800- the SG Propad: http://www.lukiegames.com/Sega-Genesis-SG-Propad-3-button-Turbo-Controller_p_17379.html The option of using shoulder buttons on the controller makes for a completely new experience- and it fortunately didn`t burn out my controller port! So many new ways to enjoy my old games with the SG78...

 

Thanks for the further confirmation, ave1. As I mentioned earlier, I have not heard any stories of it happening to the Atari controller ports.

 

Glad to read that remains the case.

[ave1]

My friend has not been able to find his Master System lightgun, so someone else besides me may have to try it out on the 7800 using the Seagull 78 (and maybe a Sega Autofire Adapter) so we can know if it'd work... Anyone interested in pulling the trigger?

[alex_79]

I recently purchased the Seagull78 Genesis-to-Atari-7800 controller adapter made by Edladdin and am enjoying my 7800 games with Genesis controllers of various types (both buttons work- not just one!). One thing I initially thought about when I got it was the possibility of using it to put my Sega Master System 2 button "Control Stick" and Sega M.S. gamepad into use on my 7800 (Since Master System and Genesis controllers are supposedly interchangeable).

 

Well, I tried this and both buttons on each M.S. controller that I plugged in didn't function. I was somewhat puzzled that this was an issue since the Master System 1 and 2 buttons are supposed to directly correspond to the Genesis B and C buttons (which are the buttons that the Edladdin adapter enables). I figured that since Button 1 on the M.S. controller is also simultaneously a "Start" button (unlike the Genesis controller which has its oown independent "Start" button) that this must somehow cause a conflict that prevents it from being able to work with the adapter.

The reason is that the sega genesis controller has pullups resistor on the pins associated to the fire buttons, so they are in LOW logic state (0V) when pressed and HIGH (+5v) otherwise. The sms controllers (like the Atari ones) doesn't have pullups, so the pins are LOW when the button is pressed, while are "floating" (that is, not connected to anything and so in an undefined state) otherwise. With an input floating, the IC inside the Seagull78 adapter doesn't work correctly.

 

I own a somewhat hard-to-find device called the Master System Autofire adapter which is shown here: http://www.ecrater.com/p/19918192/rapid-fire-control-stick-sega?gps=1&id=80959801219

 

What if I plugged my controller into it and then connected the Edladdin adapter up to it and my 7800?

 

I got brave and connected it all together...

 

http://imgur.com/Nt8wAFY

http://imgur.com/pxf3nHt

 

And- believe it or not- now my Master System controllers are fully functioning on my two button Atari 7800 games! True story

This is because the circuit inside the autofire adapter always outputs defined HIGH and LOW digital values, so it makes the Seagull78 work also with sms joysticks.

 

 

 

 

It goes by the name 'B.E.s Sega Controller to Atari Systems adapter Cable' and enables Genesis controllers or Master System controllers with an Auto fire feature to effectively put into use their auto fire on Atari game consoles. I thought this cable might be able to get the Master System controllers (gamepad or control stick) to become compatible with the Seagull 78 on the 7800 as the Master System Auto fire adapter had...

 

Verdict: It doesn't get the job done.

That adapter probably just reroute the power (+5V) from Atari controller port (pin 7) to the genesis/sms controller (pin 5), while the other pins are just connected straight between the two. So it doesn't solve the floating input problem.

 

Adding a couple of pullup resistors inside the Seagull78 (on pin 6 and 9 of the db9 male connector) should fix the problem making it compatible with sms stick out of the box. I'd use 10k resistors, as it's what the genesis 3 button controller uses, but someone more expert in electronics could suggest the right value.

 

It's been asked over at Facebook whether the Edladdin adapter will allow a Sega Master System Phaser gun to work with 7800 light gun games without having to rewire the light gun..

As for the sms light gun, the autofire adapter (or the pullups mod) won't make it to work. The Atari expects the trigger and light sensor signals on different pins (and, for the trigger, with inverted logic too), so an adapter that allows to use a genesis/sms controller won't work with the sms lightgun and viceversa. You still have to mod the lightgun or build a specific adapter if you want to use it with an Atari console.