The Most Over-Hyped Jaguar Games

[Willard]

there are several Jaguar games that I would consider to be rather good and no more overhyped than any game of any other system of the time (Iron Soldier, Tempest 2000, Rayman, Battlemorph)... some that don't get the credit they deserve (namely Zero 5).

 

As DoctorClu said it really comes down to your own personal opinion in the end. There are some Jaguar games that are just different enough from what has been released on other systems and are the kind of game I like that I consider them to be worth owning the Jaguar for.

 

Willard, on 19 Jun 2015 - 2:22 PM, said:

 

See the problem with Battlesphere is all the B.S. around it. The price, the years of trolling both by a particular developer and those trolling back.

 

I think if it had been a game released a lot more commonly, like if you could just pick it up like a copy of iWar or something everyone would be like "Hey, fun game". I hear people say "It is not that good" like it is not $700 good, or the kind of thing people say like in the Aesop's fables when the grapes were unobtainable in a high tree and the fox at the ground looked up and said "Probably soup grapes..."

 

As a Star Raiders fan I found "Alone Against the Empires" in Battlesphere to be a lot of fun. (And they had the Atari 800 sound effects for some portions of it.)

 

I think it's a decent game as I said. It's not really even the price that makes the game seem like it doesn't measure up to expectations. It was just the way it was described while the devs were still around and the game was endlessly discussed as people begged for reprints. Before initially getting the game I was under the impression it was one of the best games ever with system pushing graphics. I found it to be a decent game with rather average graphics for the system. Would've loved to have seen local multiplayer, don't really care about network more than just for the novelty value.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Willard

[+SabertoothRetro]

there are several Jaguar games that I would consider to be rather good and no more overhyped than any game of any other system of the time (Iron Soldier, Tempest 2000, Rayman, Battlemorph)... some that don't get the credit they deserve (namely Zero 5).

Zero 5 is the jam!

[Atlantis]

100% agreed on the latter, despite people who will call it "unlogic" and say we are trolls since we don't love everything about the Jaguar and praise it as the best system of all time.

Ok, say one thing you love about the Jaguar, and I will consider that aspect in all you future posts as being logic -promizzz.

 

At the Lynx forum you're a plain saint (but turn demon at Jag forum) so I know you're capable of some luuvin' too.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Atlantis

[AtariORdead]

So the two of you think the Jaguar is basically overhyped. Cool nuff, that is your view.

 

To be fair I like to get the pros and cons. I also realize that miles from opinions may vary.

 

In the end I like to try the game myself so I can form opinions that I can write on forums and also have ignored.

I like the Jag, and find the machine and the story behind it fascinating. But you can like something and admit that its not the best.

 

If you get collectors who are looking to expand their horizons past the usual Nintendo and Sega machines you are not helping them by feeding them the usual Rabid Jag Fanboyism nonsense. Give them realistic expectations and, like yourself, let them work it out themselves.

 

If you tell them Cybermorph is miles better than starfox, Super burnout is the best racer of its generation, White men can't jump is an 8 out of 10 game, Hyperforce is upp there with the contra games then you are setting them up for a fall.

 

I also have a full Amstrad GX4000 collection for example ( minus the chase HQ game ) if someone expresses an interest in that, despite me liking the machine I will be upfront and warn them about even attempting to get into the machine.

 

Putting the blinkers on and overhyping everything doe not do anybody any favours.

[AtariORdead]

Ok, say one thing you love about the Jaguar, and I will consider that aspect in all you future posts as being logic -promizzz.

 

At the Lynx forum you're a plain saint (but turn demon at Jag forum) so I know you're capable of some luuvin' too.

I love the fact its region free.

[Lost Dragon]

There's nothing unhealthy in taking an open, honest look back at Jaguar games and saying well actually Game X never really delivered in areas such as....

Likes of Zzap64, Mean Machines etc used to do regular lookback features at games they'd reviewed, reviewers commented that in hindsight maybe they were a little harsh on....overscored in areas such as....

I found the features very enjoyable to read.

Jaguar is to many of us, simply yet another platform we bought, enjoyed X amount of games on and take an interest in it's history and what happened to the games that did'nt appear.

I mean take something like Return To Zork-lot of hype, Atari annouced it, not sure myself if coding ever started on it (or Mega CD version), but after PC version hit, people found it simply did'nt live upto the hype.Poor acting, far too linear gameplay.

Had it arrived on Jag CD, sure some would be mentioning it on here, that does'nt mean there's no love for the system.

[Lost Dragon]

AtariORdead put it across pretty much as it is...like it or not systems like the Sega Mega CD and Atari Jaguar sadly never delivered on their potential in the long run.

That does'nt mean we can't or should'nt celbrate the games they did deliver that were fantastic (i loved MCD Thunderhawk, never took to the original on the ST or later PS2 version, PS1 version was alright though).

The fact is over the years, expectations of the system to newcomers, has become somewhat tainted, by overblown claims of performance.

Talk of Hoverstrike CD being coded to GPU offering a massive increase in performance for example, just daft, coder himself admits it just meant slightly better frame rate, more textures, yet this was claimed to be an engine capable of delivering a competent conversion of Daytona USA to the Jaguar?.

Claims of increased performance over existing cartridge version would of been the sensible solution, overblown claims just set the hardware up for an unfair fall at times.

[Lost Dragon]

@doctorclu:There were claims at the time that mags like Esquire, GQ etc etc would'nt even consider featuring games that did'nt feature cutting edge 3D engine games in their New Media sections, so yes the press had always been something of the 'Graphics Tart' nature...(love that Sega UK Saturn era phrase).

And yep, Atari took a gamble and played the media game with not only hammering out the 'it's the 1st 64 Bit system of any sort' (Darryl Still, Atari UK saying Intel had'nt shipped the Pentium yet etc.... and how every major software house in the UK was developing for Jaguar-well in hindsight we know that simply was'nt true, Atari had in fact snubbed likes of Audiogenic...

Plus you had them saying they were keen to ensure the 1st wave of titles really showcased the power of the Jaguar...so they really set themselves up for a major fall when Press simply ripped into likes of Raiden, Crescent Galaxy, Humans etc for not delivering what was expected from 64-Bit gaming, being very odd choices.

[Isgoed]

I thought Hyperforce was decent when I first played it, then I realized it was the same stuff over and over and over. There are like 3 types of enemies in the entire game. Hero sprite is too large. Has that "coded by 3 guys in a dorm room" feel.

 

100% agreed on the latter, despite people who will call it "unlogic" and say we are trolls since we don't love everything about the Jaguar and praise it as the best system of all time.

 

@ madman, I called you a troll once.

 

Not because I don't like you, or because I think that the Jaguar is the best system ever because I don't think it is.

There are many things that I like or don't like about many consoles or videogame systems.

 

But most of the time your posts (and not only yours) seem to be negative about the Jaguar, and that in a dedicated Atari Jaguar forum where fans (or fanboys if you like), come together to talk about the Jaguar.

If you or others don't like the console or it's games that's fine, as we all have our opinions about everything in life and can't and won't agree about everything.

Our different opinions about the system, controllers, games etc. (pro's and con's) are interesting, good for discussion and keeps a forum alive IMO.

 

But if you bring up the same old JAG3D POWA, Tomb Raider conspiracies etc.etc. so many times in so many threads, which has no use in that thread and add's nothing to the conversation, then that's trolling to me.

[AtariORdead]

 

@ madman, I called you a troll once.

 

Not because I don't like you, or because I think that the Jaguar is the best system ever because I don't think it is.

There are many things that I like or don't like about many consoles or videogame systems.

 

But most of the time your posts (and not only yours) seem to be negative about the Jaguar, and that in a dedicated Atari Jaguar forum where fans (or fanboys if you like), come together to talk about the Jaguar.

If you or others don't like the console or it's games that's fine, as we all have our opinions about everything in life and can't and won't agree about everything.

Our different opinions about the system, controllers, games etc. (pro's and con's) are interesting, good for discussion and keeps a forum alive IMO.

 

But if you bring up the same old JAG3D POWA, Tomb Raider conspiracies etc.etc. so many times in so many threads, which has no use in that thread and add's nothing to the conversation, then that's trolling to me.

Works both ways though. I am realistic about the Jag, and happen to think the people making stupid claims about the Jags capabilities and overhyping the quality of the games can be just as easily accused of trolling IMO.

 

People think trolls are people who call things crap to get a reaction, Trolls are also people who massively overhype things despite evidence to the contrary.

 

people calling the jag a piece of shit and worst thing ever, and the people claiming its an untapped wonder of the modern world with a library of classic games are just as bad as each other.

 

Its hugley annoying and frustrating for us in the middle.

[Atlantis]

Works both ways though. I am realistic about the Jag, and happen to think the people making stupid claims about the Jags capabilities and overhyping the quality of the games can be just as easily accused of trolling IMO.

 

People think trolls are people who call things crap to get a reaction, Trolls are also people who massively overhype things despite evidence to the contrary.

 

people calling the jag a piece of shit and worst thing ever, and the people claiming its an untapped wonder of the modern world with a library of classic games are just as bad as each other.

 

Its hugley annoying and frustrating for us in the middle.

So if I am a Michael Jackson fan, and at a MJ forum says "I love everything about MJ!" that's trolling? Wow.

 

So if I say "I'm realistic" - which I am, enjoying the experience of playing Jaguar bad games or good ones - I'm immune to being called a troll?

 

Ok, with those rules at hand: I'm realistic and I'm in the middle of you non-realists fighting... sigh. To be secure: I don't love Jaguar, only today enjoy the experience of what it is: video games from the 90's that I overlooked, being tired of Neo Geo AES.

 

This is how every thread ends when madman takes the hard and well-weight decision to "contribute"... somehow not being a troll and logic roaming this forum.

 

Back to topic. Yes, it's a matter of opinion. Also, Cannon fodder is overrated at a cost of $5, only worth $3.

[AtariORdead]

So if I am a Michael Jackson fan, and at a MJ forum says "I love everything about MJ!" that's trolling? Wow.

 

So if I say "I'm realistic" - which I am, enjoying the experience of playing Jaguar bad games or good ones - I'm immune to being called a troll?

 

Ok, with those rules at hand: I'm realistic and I'm in the middle of you non-realists fighting... sigh. To be secure: I don't love Jaguar, only today enjoy the experience of what it is: video games from the 90's that I overlooked, being tired of Neo Geo AES.

 

This is how every thread ends when madman takes the hard and well-weight decision to "contribute"... somehow not being a troll and logic roaming this forum.

 

Back to topic. Yes, it's a matter of opinion. Also, Cannon fodder is overrated at a cost of $5, only worth $3.

No, but if you say Hyperforce deserves to be ranked alongside Contra, or the jaguars library caters for every taste and there is something for everyone, or, as mentioned before, Club drive is a great game in multiplayer and is worth getting it for that.

 

That is cause for trolling in my book. After all is trolling not just picking an opinion and going to extrems with it to get a reaction. it works both ways.

 

There are plenty of people who love the jag who don't indulge idiotic fanaticism.

 

I think I made it pretty clear I named the troll comment at the sort of people that say stuff thats way over the top, not, as you suggest, just your average Jag fan who loves the machine.

[Lost Dragon]

Perhaps there's been something of a tendancy for the Jaguar to be shown to be able to...'hold it's own' as it were again'st the PS1 and Saturn, let alone 3DO, with key games like Battlesphere and Hoverstrike:Unconquered Lands suggested as compare and contrast games?.

I've seen both games used on forums and in magazine articles and whilst both indeed were very impressive and exactly the sort of games Atari needed to showcase what Jaguar could do, we need to be realistic when it comes to 'reporting' on them.

A total re-write of Battlesphere would probably have seen increase in plain polygons and a locked frame rate?, but it would'nt of matched any of the PS1 Colony War's games nor Darklight Conflict, visually as hardware in a different league.

Hoverstrike U.L might have fought it out with 1st Gen PS1 Krazy Ivan, but likes of Quake 2, Sonic R, Shadowmaster, P.D.S, Sega Rally, R.R 4, VF2, Tekken 3 etc etc showed the gulf between the Sega/Sony systems and that of Atari's.

[Schmudde]

That is cause for trolling in my book. After all is trolling not just picking an opinion and going to extrems with it to get a reaction. it works both ways.

 

There are plenty of people who love the jag who don't indulge idiotic fanaticism.

 

I think I made it pretty clear I named the troll comment at the sort of people that say stuff thats way over the top, not, as you suggest, just your average Jag fan who loves the machine.

 

... and those people who love the jag and don't indulge idiotic fanaticism are the people who thus far populate this thread. Your pre-emptive strike against some strawman troll by "putting the Jaguar in its place" seems a little out of sync in a forum that is built for people who enjoy the system.

 

There are several users on this forum who don't seem to understand this. There is so much of this Jaguar "reality checking," it becomes just as obnoxious as the trolls you guys claim to be guarding against. Sorry to use your post as an example, AtariORdead, but it would be nice if some of this noise just dissipated.

 

~ü

[+Saturn]

Rayman: it's to darn hard after 30 minutes. ruined my self-esteem as a hard-core player: "#%&¤ you Rayman!

 

Not to detract from the troll defining or original over-hyping but I have a similar take on this game. Never liked it on any platform myself. Having a bit of waning interest in playing recently because of the Conspiracy thread but even after hacking in Infinite Health, Lives, Continues and various Invulnerability from enemies, spikes, etc., still losing interest fast. May add my cheat tables to another thread someday for posterity but for me fun does not equal this particular level of difficulty.

To me, finding the hacks is/was more entertaining than the game itself.

[AtariORdead]

 

... and those people who love the jag and don't indulge idiotic fanaticism are the people who thus far populate this thread. Your pre-emptive strike against some strawman troll by "putting the Jaguar in its place" seems a little out of sync in a forum that is built for people who enjoy the system.

 

There are several users on this forum who don't seem to understand this. There is so much of this Jaguar "reality checking," it becomes just as obnoxious as the trolls you guys claim to be guarding against. Sorry to use your post as an example, AtariORdead, but it would be nice if some of this noise just dissipated.

 

~ü

Except this is a thread on which games are overhyped, which I gave examples of and why I think they are overhyped which was the fact that certain fans who go overboard have overhyped these games.

 

So, despite you getting all upset, my comments were totally in keeping with the very nature of the thread. Never did I say it was pertaining to people in this or any other thread on the site in particular, but based on things I have run across.

 

So you can stop the white knighting now. It was not a pre-emptive strike, it was explaining why certain games have been overhyped in the past and who I think have been responsible.

 

You know, explaining why they have been overhyped, rather than just list games with no explanation.

[Atlantis]

There are plenty of people who love the jag who don't indulge idiotic fanaticism.

 

I think I made it pretty clear I named the troll comment at the sort of people that say stuff thats way over the top, not, as you suggest, just your average Jag fan who loves the machine.

Now message is received, thanks. Glad you could sort that out, even though it's more than clear.

 

!WALL OF TEXT WARNING!

 

For outsiders an interest of collecting expensive old games is not a rational move. Within the community, some systems are more considered rational to collect for, and others not. NES being ok, Jaguar being not ok. Within the Jaguar community, there are some rational choices as well.

 

The rational choice for me was moving from one cart based system to another. Also prefer the more advanced era Neo Geo/Jaguar/N64 than NES/SNES but that's me.

 

Next, rational choice for me was to find the gems and avoid the stinkers. Now I got 35 games, with maybe 5 stinkers so I have reached that goal + some crap.

 

Irrational choices:

First, I promised myself to stick to only the carts, not going into the cd add-on. Had a golden opportunity and abandoned that early plan. Not tat rational. I do see a charm in the considered stinking cd add-on, and it opens up for some homebrews and fun stuff. To me that sums up to be a half-rational move, getting the cd add-on for less than $200 NIB. It'snot overrated, it's spot on to me, though some people loath it some love it. Me, between.

 

Next very irrational move coming up: getting the Jaglink. I promised myself not to get Doom since I thought it was kind of bad. Well, it's not it's spot on rated as one good cart game to get, on most top 5 lists. Personally, kind of find Aircars to be charming-bad too.

 

Man, it's hard to stop collecting, but soon I will own Jaguar, cd add-on and Jaglink, and that pretty much gives an complete exposure to this hobby. It's a rational choice to collect for Jaguar since it is easy to get stuff you wan't hence a bit pricey. The irrational side of it is that most gamers will call you disturbed for not getting NES games instead for Jaguar, but to me, fanboy and all, Jaguar's pseudo 3d powers are much more appealing than any NES games any day. To me the system is overall underrated, since there are 20 good games, and on a retro system that is a good system. But the stigmata Jaguar have will haunt us forever, maybe especially here since it's such a thankful thing to do.

 

It's very easy to attack and very hard to protect an interest for Atari Jaguar, no matter what level your positive interest is at.

 

[Lost Dragon]

I was tempted to mention Theme Park...

Not as i've anything again'st the Jaguar version, far from it.Hell i don't even remember it being hyped that much.

It's just that it's always had that 'buzz' around it (think 3DO version had more hype) on other formats and no..never been a fan, so wanted to get that out my system.

It's an over hyped game..that arrived on the Jaguar.

:-)

At the end of the day all choices are going to be pure personal taste, not sure many on here 'took' to AVP or Syndicate in manner i did, let alone Hoverstrike, but it's been very interesting to hear views as to why certain games left others cold.

Keep'em coming.

[+remowilliams]

See the problem with Battlesphere is all the B.S. around it.

The problem is the idiotic hype and the endless regurgitation of it. It still hasn't stopped after all these years...

 

This idiotic quote was from just late last year:

 

BattleSphere might have looked better on the PSX [in terms of raw polygon count], but its gameplay would have suffered. The Jaguars multiple CPUs let me do things with physics and AI that were a good five years ahead of the rest of the industry. It wasnt until Halo that I finally felt utterly outgunned.

[Schmudde]

Except this is a thread on which games are overhyped, which I gave examples of and why I think they are overhyped which was the fact that certain fans who go overboard have overhyped these games.

 

So, despite you getting all upset, my comments were totally in keeping with the very nature of the thread. Never did I say it was pertaining to people in this or any other thread on the site in particular, but based on things I have run across.

 

So you can stop the white knighting now. It was not a pre-emptive strike, it was explaining why certain games have been overhyped in the past and who I think have been responsible.

 

You know, explaining why they have been overhyped, rather than just list games with no explanation.

 

I don't disagree with any of this, nor do I necessarily disagree with your original post.

 

All I've said: attempting to correct the record by using some strawman Jaguar fanboys and apologists is a theme around here. Even before I posted, there was already a digression on to trolling, etc.. because this strategy is both negative and tired. You may not have meant to elicit these reactions, but the broader context of your post matters.

 

Anyway, I've clarified and I'll refrain from further digression.

 

~ü

[AtariORdead]

I don't mean to come across Like I am having a go at all Jag owners at all. But its so Tiresome to even mention Jag sometimes as it results in 1 of 2 extreme reactions.

 

On here I seem to have to downplay the qualitites due to some over enthusiastic fans, yet on other sites, as I am sure most people are aware of, you tend to have to defend it against the tiresome worst ever console comments.

 

Just no middle ground to be found.

[Atlantis]

If you like 0 to 1 cart of the Jaguar games, you will probably turn into a "jagbully" calling Jaguar crap as long as you get the feedback you like to get = 4ever.

Liking 1 to 5 carts: you could get away with being perfectly normal here, but it depends also on the amount of your posts.

Liking 5 to 15 carts: well now you will get into the non-existing middle ground, where the battle and arrows are going in all directions at you or above your head.

Liking 15 to 30 carts: will be called names and bully object material as borderline fanboy up for some testing.

Liking 30+ carts: you will be considered insane and hard core part of the fall of Atari stigmata (blame Jaguar/blame jaggers).

The more carts you like the shorter time you will probably survive/last on this forum, if you're not into insults and all that.

Then there are these guys who just go their own way, not trying to learn anyone anything. Maybe avoid posting, and just having the fun of reading these threads.

Solution: Better stick to the "I like AvP, Tempest, IS and Doom"; it works for the most, as a working middle ground. And never leave this four cornered box!

[Lost Dragon]

Re:Scott LeGrand said

BattleSphere might have looked better on the PSX [in terms of raw polygon count], but its gameplay would have suffered. The Jaguars multiple CPUs let me do things with physics and AI that were a good five years ahead of the rest of the industry. It wasnt until Halo that I finally felt utterly outgunned.

These were around long before last year.This was quoted in the very 1st look at the Jaguar Hardware RetroGamer magazine did some years back and were what led me to checking the game on out YouTube.

They are of course Scott's personal views, but with: Darklight Conflict, 3 Colony Wars games, Blast Radius etc, it's not like PS1 struggled with impressive 3D Space Combat games, so said comments always left me somewhat confused as to just what was meant.

The Colony Wars games were EPIC on PS1, branching storylines,epic battles, hell Red Sun even had you battling on planets surface, not just confined to space, so not sure gameplay suffered at expense of visuals on the genre on PS1 myself...

[Schmudde]

If I'm thinking about hype during the Jaguar's lifetime, it would have to be Fight For Life.

 

Francois Bertrand's name was intentionally used to give weight to the game. "If this is the guy who 'made' Virtual Fighter, this is going to be an awesome game on the Jaguar!"

 

He didn't stand a chance.

 

In the early 90s, we were just moving from a time when small or individual developers were being totally replaced by AAA teams on consoles. The team and the company that made Virtual Fighter was totally different than the guy that made Flight For Life.

 

I personally believe that the Jaguar was the last of that kind. In fact, I sort of left video games after the Jaguar until recently. I love what is happening on X-Box live and Steam. Weird games made by small teams are still my favorite. I guess I'm just indie at heart.

 

~ü

[Lost Dragon]

Poor old Francois Bertrand never really stood a chance did he?.Expectations for Fight For Life were as unrealistic as they were for people hoping for a near perfect conversion of Daytona USA on the Saturn.

Just because cetain big names were involved in a project (be it an individual or flagship team), it did'nt make the impossible..possible.

I'm sure Bertrand and his team did the best they could with the project and the hardware, but it was a loosing battle from the start to be honest. I'm still amazed what 32X delivered in terms of Virtua Fighter, but even then it was clear Saturn was by far the more powerful platform.

Jez San (another who gets credit for a lot of games that a big old team were involved in creating) had sense to scrap the SFX powered SNES version of FX Fighter, think Atari might of been lot wiser to cut it's losses with F.F.L on the Jaguar.It was'nt going to turn Jaguar's fortunes around or buy it time needed to finish Jaguar MK 2 and has just sadly added Jags battered image at times.