Boulder Dash ROM will not be released

[ZylonBane]

Hey, this is a pretty amazing port. And it actually gets the tempo on the title screen music right (unlike the 2600 version, cough ahem).

[soporj]

Awesome news...thanks for posting.

[AtariBrian]

Hey, this is a pretty amazing port. And it actually gets the tempo on the title screen music right (unlike the 2600 version, cough ahem).

I have the 2600 one and thought the tempo seems very fast ... am I correct in that ?

[Eric7100]

Awesome news...thanks for posting.

 

What??

[ZylonBane]

I have the 2600 one and thought the tempo seems very fast ... am I correct in that ?

 

Does your version have

? If yes, it's playing too slow compared to the original music. It should sound

. The more sluggish tempo you hear on a lot of videos for Boulder Dash is due to it being recorded in PAL mode, which has a lower frame rate. Since Boulder Dash originated in North America, the faster NTSC tempo is the correct, intended way the title music should sound.

[+JasonlikesINTV]

I kinda like the new soporj. He turned his sour puss into a big ole smile. It's like he's on happy pills

[yell0w_lantern]

 

So a new car should be $3999, I understand

 

You are right, car prices have more-or-less kept pace with inflation like new video games.

However, much like the newer cars, the newer video games have far more bells and whistles than their older counterparts. If some guy was making cars in his private garage and offered to sell me something without the expected features of a modern car but still wanted to charge me the modern price, I would certainly be hesitant.

Edited July 8, 2015 by yell0w_lantern

[BBWW]

 

You are right, car prices have more-or-less kept pace with inflation like new video games.

However, much like the newer cars, the newer video games have far more bells and whistles than their older counterparts. If some guy was making cars in his private garage and offered to sell me something without the expected features of a modern car but still wanted to charge me the modern price, I would certainly be hesitant.

Yes but buying a Mint condition 1979 car would cost more in many cases now that the car sold for new.

 

As a content producer this bothers me. I choose not to release my last CD to any streaming or download sites. Because to me what I get per stream means that for me to make minimum wage I would have to have 1,000,000 steams a week, every week just to get that $290.00. I can sell 10 CD's at gigs and make the same amount of money.

 

So to me the money to sell just the ROM would equal less than zero because it would take away hard copy sales. I get about 6 bucks for an ITunes Album download...but about 3 times that if a fan buys one at a gig. One huge plus I have is I'm not big enough to be found on The Pirate Bay. You would have to rip my CD's on the fly off my website. LOL

 

Sometimes something actually is less than nothing...

[Rev]

I kinda like the new soporj. He turned his sour puss into a big ole smile. It's like he's on happy pills

I liked the old Soporj. He was a straight shooter. Now we have Soporj-lite. Meh

[jaybird3rd]

I liked the old Soporj. He was a straight shooter. Now we have Soporj-lite. Meh

Given the robotic one-liners he's been posting everywhere lately, I wonder if "soporj-lite" would pass the Turing Test.

 

I still think he's trying to boost his post count, or maybe he's making some kind of statement after being called out for constantly flinging thunderbolts at everyone.

[pimpmaul69]

Given the robotic one-liners he's been posting everywhere lately, I wonder if "soporj-lite" would pass the Turing Test.

 

I still think he's trying to boost his post count, or maybe he's making some kind of statement after being called out for constantly flinging thunderbolts at everyone.

i created a monster!

[freewheel]

So to me the money to sell just the ROM would equal less than zero because it would take away hard copy sales. I get about 6 bucks for an ITunes Album download...but about 3 times that if a fan buys one at a gig.

 

Every single non-biased study that anyone's ever done on this shows that the intersection between these 2 groups is practically nil. ROM sales, and hell, flat-out ROM piracy, takes away almost nothing from physical sales. In many cases it actually helps increase it via promotion and word of mouth. Hell, Sony's Playstation was the most pirated game console in history, and also one of the most commercially successful.

 

People at local gigs, at least anywhere I've ever been, aren't sitting there thinking "hey, if this was on iTunes I wouldn't bother buying the real thing". People buy your CDs because they want to support you commercially as an artist, not because it's the only way they can ever listen to your music. Also I'm not sure what your creative/manufacturing costs are but from when I did CD production I sure as hell hope you make a lot more for a CD. A digital download costs a fraction of a cent.

 

Besides, this thread isn't "we're not selling the ROM *until* hard copy sales increase". That horse has left the barn. They've decided not to sell ROMs *because* hard copy sales aren't what they expected. It's not like they're going to continue manufacturing carts. And anyone who thinks there's a huge contingent of folks out there who didn't buy the cart because they figured the ROM would be out eventually - all I can say is, some people don't fully understand the demographic.

 

[BBWW]

----all I can say is, some people don't fully understand the demographic.

 

I think that is true with Retro Games to some extent. For me as a "completist" I want CIB. They are more important to me as a collector. Game play is very important. If a CIB has poor game play I don't care about the ROM anyway. I don't need a ROM I won't play. But I do need a CIB I might not play. Weird...but true.

 

I'm pretty in touch with my demographic for music, and streaming doesn't make sense. Down loads did but for the most part the reverence of the download is further diminished with the growing streaming services. That is why my new material is being withheld. I'd no my revenue base for my recordings will never come from streaming but that it WILL dimisnh sales. I have seen it. I have been told it. Any antidotal information is from more mainstream artists...not the independent artist. The "Emerging" Indy artist now gives more away to the public instead of to the record companies. Me I'm too old to be "emerging", I'm lucky to not be in a walker.

[BBWW]

i created a monster!

LOL

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Every single non-biased study that anyone's ever done on this shows that the intersection between these 2 groups is practically nil. ROM sales, and hell, flat-out ROM piracy, takes away almost nothing from physical sales. In many cases it actually helps increase it via promotion and word of mouth.

I was assuming that too.

 

But at least in case of the Atari 2600 and according to Al, this is not true. Homebrew sales have dropped very significantly since the Harmony Flash cart became available.

[CPUWIZ]

I was assuming that too.

 

But at least in case of the Atari 2600 and according to Al, this is not true. Homebrew sales have dropped very significantly since the Harmony Flash cart became available.

 

But that is strictly on the developers, it has nothing to do with the Harmony cart or Al, if developers would stop giving away final or near final versions of their work for free, you probably would not see a decline that is as bad as it is. Just my opinion of course.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

But that is strictly on the developers, it has nothing to do with the Harmony cart or Al, if developers would stop giving away final or near final versions of their work for free, you probably would not see a decline that is as bad as it is. Just my opinion of course.

That's what I meant to say. I thought it was obvious because we are talking about ROM releases.

 

Collectors will still buy the cart etc. because they are more interested than others into the packaging. Non-collecting players are happy if they can play the game on real hardware. So they need either the cart or a ROM and a flash cart. And I assumed a flash cart is available for the Intellivision. So the ROM makes it possible that they do not have to buy the cart.

 

And then the sales of the cart would drop.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I was assuming that too.

 

But at least in case of the Atari 2600 and according to Al, this is not true. Homebrew sales have dropped very significantly since the Harmony Flash cart became available.

 

 

But that is strictly on the developers, it has nothing to do with the Harmony cart or Al, if developers would stop giving away final or near final versions of their work for free, you probably would not see a decline that is as bad as it is. Just my opinion of course.

 

That's what I meant to say. I thought it was obvious because we are talking about ROM releases.

 

Collectors will still buy the cart etc. because they are more interested than others into the packaging. Non-collecting players are happy if they can play the game on real hardware. So they need either the cart or a ROM and a flash cart. And I assumed a flash cart is available for the Intellivision. So the ROM makes it possible that they do not have to buy the cart.

 

And then the sales of the cart would drop.

There's also a lot of stuff I've passed on because some sort of demo was not available and I did not know if I would like it. I have full ROM sets loaded on most of my Harmony/PowerPak/Everdrives for classic consoles, and I still seek out those games that are really fun to play, provided they're not unobtainable or outrageously expensive.

 

Also public betas are awesome sauce! I would buy the new 8k Pacman or VCS DK or DK Arcade or Circus AtariAge in a heartbeat. I also can't wait for the 7800 flash cart to come out so I can play stuff like Pokey Pacman 320 on real hardware instead of on crapulation.

Edited July 9, 2015 by stardust4ever

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I don't doubt that. And I am sure you are not the only one. But sales stats say something very different. So unfortunately you are not representing the majority.

 

The financial aspect doesn't matter to me personally, but e.g Al is financing this website with the profits from the cart sales. Also boxed releases require some upfront investment and some minimum sales. And when you have to pay license fees like for Boulder Dash, the break-even point requires even higher sales.

 

Due to that, I foresee that ROM releases will (have to) become more restrictive in the future.

[pimpmaul69]

I don't doubt that. And I am sure you are not the only one. But sales stats say something very different. So unfortunately you are not representing the majority.

 

The financial aspect doesn't matter to me personally, but e.g Al is financing this website with the profits from the cart sales. Also boxed releases require some upfront investment and some minimum sales. And when you have to pay license fees like for Boulder Dash, the break-even point requires even higher sales.

 

Due to that, I foresee that ROM releases will (have to) become more restrictive in the future.

as far as intellivision goes, i dont believe roms hurt cart sales. Mofos here are crazy and buy every game. several of them buy 2 or more of each game as well. Sales are in the hundreds on each cart sale. It seems to go so well that several people are releasing several games a year. I think people here are different than atari collectors.

[GroovyBee]

as far as intellivision goes, i dont believe roms hurt cart sales. Mofos here are crazy and buy every game. several of them buy 2 or more of each game as well. Sales are in the hundreds on each cart sale. It seems to go so well that several people are releasing several games a year. I think people here are different than atari collectors.

Its the same for the jaguar scene. You can release a ROM/ISO and still sell 100+ copies of your game on cart/CD.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Is that maybe due to the fact that flash carts are not available/rare/uncommon for other systems than the 2600?

 

Or that collecting is more important than playing?

Edited July 9, 2015 by Thomas Jentzsch

[+DZ-Jay]

Is that maybe due to the fact that flash carts are not available/rare/uncommon for other systems than the 2600?

 

Or that collecting is more important than playing?

 

On the Intellivision scene at least, there is a rather large(ish) group for which collecting is more important than playing. There's also a set of people who would loyally buy games in cart and boxes because they relish the collateral as much as the games themselves. This is why, as GroovyBee and others have suggested, you can almost guarantee at least about 150 sales for a good game, with or without ROM and multi-carts being available.

 

The trick is to be prudent like that, to know the size of your market, and to not set unrealistic expectations for your wares. Oh, and of course, to treat your customers with respect. That always helps.

 

-dZ.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I think that is true with Retro Games to some extent. For me as a "completist" I want CIB. They are more important to me as a collector. Game play is very important. If a CIB has poor game play I don't care about the ROM anyway. I don't need a ROM I won't play. But I do need a CIB I might not play. Weird...but true.

Not sure if I get you here. I suppose you meant to say the game play is much less relevant to you than packaging.

 

While I can understand that, there is a hidden danger in that attitude. The more people follow it (and there are quite a lot), the less relevant development becomes and effectively you are promoting packaging over development.

 

We have a similar situation on the Atari 2600 side and it is pretty frustrating and discouraging for a developer like me to see that a mediocre at best, rushed game has similar feedback and sales as a labor of love, well polished, fun game. As a result we already have a LOT of cheaply developed games released. So the average game quality is IMO decreasing rapidly. In the end I am afraid that you can almost start selling nicely packaged sealed bricks with minimal effort.

 

I don't think this is a healthy trend. Since collectors are in the majority, I suppose they are the only ones who are able to stop that negative trend. For that they have to be aware of the problem.

 

Sorry for deviating from the topic that far.

[freewheel]

I was assuming that too.

 

But at least in case of the Atari 2600 and according to Al, this is not true. Homebrew sales have dropped very significantly since the Harmony Flash cart became available.

 

Don't conflate correlation with causation. You said it yourself in a later post, the average game quality is decreasing rapidly. While I haven't followed the 2600 as closely as I should have, I suspect the early days of homebrew had few titles, and good ones for the most part. And an excited audience eager to lap up every possible cart. Eventually more and more come out, quality starts to slide, people no longer have $500+/year to spend on homebrew... and the Harmony comes out at the same time. Plus, the Harmony just makes it SO easy to play all the other games that you may already have, so the drive to "get em all" diminishes.

 

ie: They may be related, but one is not necessarily the cause of the other.

 

For that to be true, we'd need a rather large majority of the target demographic to be just absolutely ready to plunk down $40+ for every single homebrew game, because that's literally the only way to play them. And ready to plunk down $0 when they can play them elsewise. I'm sure some people like that exist, but at least on the INTV side, people aren't shelling out the money for the sole purpose of playing the game. Heck, people pay $50 for publicly-available ROMs, just for the pretty packaging and to support the effort.