OT - JavaScript

[+DZ-Jay]

 

Just because many of us were tempered in the fires of command lines, text mode, debug monitors, etc... doesn't mean all of us were. That said, that fiery landscape is the only realm I truly understand. I need to rely on the rest of y'all to help bridge it into the gooey GUI world.

 

It's a noble goal to simplify its use, to be sure, but putting it "on the web" is just a bit icky. To paraphrase your comment, just because many of you were tempered in the craphole of the web and browsers doesn't mean that all of us like to swim in there.

 

What about an integrated IDE with a GUI editor and tools built-in? Now that's a noble goal.

 

-dZ.

[intvnut]

 

It's a noble goal to simplify its use, to be sure, but putting it "on the web" is just a bit icky. To paraphrase your comment, just because many of you were tempered in the craphole of the web and browsers doesn't mean that all of us like to swim in there.

 

What about an integrated IDE with a GUI editor and tools built-in? Now that's a noble goal.

 

-dZ.

 

 

For Windows, Mac or Linux?

 

One advantage of building your GUI in the web browser is that if your computer runs a modern web browser, no one needs to port their web app to it.

 

Me? I'm not building any GUIs myself. I'm sticking to what I'm good at, the command line. If you'd like to build an IDE + GUI editor and such, go for it! We're all here to scratch our own itches.

 

If you happen to want to use jzIntv or AS1600 for any of that, great. Go for it! That's why I put it out there GPL'd. And if you'd like my help adapting any of it, sure thing! Although be forewarned, I am rather busy these days, unfortunately. :-P

 

There is something kinda neat about being able to run all of this stuff in a web-browser, if only for hack value. When I started jzIntv, it was beyond belief that such a thing might be possible. Java Applets certainly weren't up to it yet. (But were a few years later, as evidenced by the Bliss Java applet.) Now it all runs in JavaScript, and can be compiled to by Emscripten. Nifty!

[+DZ-Jay]

 

 

For Windows, Mac or Linux?

 

One advantage of building your GUI in the web browser is that if your computer runs a modern web browser, no one needs to port their web app to it.

 

Me? I'm not building any GUIs myself. I'm sticking to what I'm good at, the command line. If you'd like to build an IDE + GUI editor and such, go for it! We're all here to scratch our own itches.

 

If you happen to want to use jzIntv or AS1600 for any of that, great. Go for it! That's why I put it out there GPL'd. And if you'd like my help adapting any of it, sure thing! Although be forewarned, I am rather busy these days, unfortunately. :-P

 

There is something kinda neat about being able to run all of this stuff in a web-browser, if only for hack value. When I started jzIntv, it was beyond belief that such a thing might be possible. Java Applets certainly weren't up to it yet. (But were a few years later, as evidenced by the Bliss Java applet.) Now it all runs in JavaScript, and can be compiled to by Emscripten. Nifty!

 

Ah, I see. "So many options! Let's pick NONE."

 

I don't buy the "something kinda neat being able to run all of this in a web-browser." That's why Google is stuck bringing us half the functionality of mail programs and text editors we had back in the late 1990s.

 

Like I said, nifty technical experiment, silly endeavor. To each his own, I guess.

 

-dZ.

[intvnut]

 

Ah, I see. "So many options! Let's pick NONE."

 

I don't buy the "something kinda neat being able to run all of this in a web-browser." That's why Google is stuck bringing us half the functionality of mail programs and text editors we had back in the late 1990s.

 

Like I said, nifty technical experiment, silly endeavor. To each his own, I guess.

 

Well, neither you nor I are signing up to spend any time coding it up, so let's let folks scratch whatever itch they care to scratch, eh?

 

I mean, developing an emulator, assembler, function library, multiple games, multiple hardware cartridge designs, and helping educate others to do the same for a 35 year old game console that hadn't been commercially viable for 30 years is perhaps a silly use of my time. After all, only a few hundred people in the whole world actually care. But it hasn't stopped me. And at least those few hundred people have found it amusing.... even if I have furiously stuck with the command line.

 

If it weren't for "silly" programming endeavors, you could delete all of the programming forums from AtariAge, I reckon...

Edited July 8, 2015 by intvnut

[+DZ-Jay]

 

Well, neither you nor I are signing up to spend any time coding it up, so let's let folks scratch whatever itch they care to scratch, eh?

 

I mean, developing an emulator, assembler, function library, multiple games, multiple hardware cartridge designs, and helping educate others to do the same for a 35 year old game console that hadn't been commercially viable for 30 years is perhaps a silly use of my time. After all, only a few hundred people in the whole world actually care. But it hasn't stopped me. And at least those few hundred people have found it amusing.... even if I have furiously stuck with the command line.

 

If it weren't for "silly" programming endeavors, you could delete all of the programming forums from AtariAge, I reckon...

 

Actually, I've signed up to do similar things to get IntyBASIC to the masses, but thanks for asking.

 

My point is that there are so many things we can do to spread the joys of our platform and to reach new blood, and that perhaps it all starts with addressing immediate needs not nifty technical challenges. But what do I know.

 

You're right, everyone should do whatever they want; we're here to have fun and enjoy our hobby. Just don't kid yourself that "NEED MOAR JAVASCRIPT" is the answer to what ails the community.

 

-dZ.

[intvnut]

 

Actually, I've signed up to do similar things to get IntyBASIC to the masses, but thanks for asking.

 

I meant specifically on the Javascript thing that's the subject of this thread. Or did I misunderstand you here?

 

 

 

Just don't kid yourself that "NEED MOAR JAVASCRIPT" is the answer to what ails the community.

 

I think it'd make a neat hack, and if someone wanted to try to push my code through that sausage grinder, I'd at least help them understand what my code is trying to do if things break.

 

But, I'm not holding my breath on Javascript being some great enabler here either, and so am not dabbling with it myself. I've been wrong before.

 

IntyBASIC's success itself is proof of that. I was doubtful that such a straightforward compiler would perform well enough to write interesting games, and yet here we are. And IntyBASIC does perform pretty well, improving with each release.

[freewheel]

Live GRAM viewer, eh? That'd be cool to have as an extension to jzintv.

[intvnut]

Live GRAM viewer, eh? That'd be cool to have as an extension to jzintv.

 

It would, actually. I don't really have an easy way to integrate such a thing, though. As I recall, SDL 1.2 doesn't have a way of opening multiple windows. SDL 2 has the required support, but I haven't moved jzIntv to SDL 2 yet. The SDL 2 video API is quite a bit different from the SDL 1.2 video API.

 

Assuming I stick with SDL 1.2, I'd have to add it to the STIC output, and unfortunately I didn't design jzIntv's STIC graphics pipeline to support alternate "display sizes". :-(

 

Also, I'm not sure what the 3rd party support is for SDL 1.2 vs. 2. I have a feeling I'd have to support building with both. I have encapsulated most of the SDL dependencies in a few files, but it is still another bit of potential fun...

Edited July 9, 2015 by intvnut

[fsuinnc]

You guys are on a tangent that literally makes no sense to me. Are our PCs so underpowered that we feel the need to compile on large, centralized machines these days?

 

I gather that nanochess's post was tongue-in-cheek, but just in case it wasn't - there are better things to spend y'alls time on

 

 

I wasn't thinking in saving programs in server.

 

But compiling in the user computer running in the browser and passing the binary directly to the emulator without passing through other computer.

 

 

 

I was more replying to Arnauld's comment:

 

 

That makes no sense to me. Make it all run in the browser, which means the compiler runs in the browser, not the server.

 

 

 

We have seen tech support requests along the lines of "IntyBASIC doesn't open, it just flashes a window" and all levels of aversion to anything involving a command prompt...

 

Just because many of us were tempered in the fires of command lines, text mode, debug monitors, etc... doesn't mean all of us were. That said, that fiery landscape is the only realm I truly understand. I need to rely on the rest of y'all to help bridge it into the gooey GUI world.

 

My main PC (windows based) is plenty powerful enough, but my new Remix Mini is android based and designed to run apps and browsers. I think this is true of Chromebooks too. Granted it's not very helpful without an internet collection but that happens less and less frequently.

 

Personally, I am sick of Windows and MS in general as all of their products seem to be getting slower and slower. I have also had problems with drives, and motherboards that have cost me work and date. Over the past year I have become a much bigger fan of Google Drive and Google Photos.

 

Overall, I think being able to edit IntyBASIC source in google docs and upload the source and compile and play it in a web environment would be great.

[fsuinnc]

Anything new with IntyGo lately?