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Soulbuster's Non-Variant List of Homebrew Games Released


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Ah, so then DK Arcade and D2K are the same game, since the cartridge of the latter contains the former, and the difference in level order of "American" and "Japanese" between the Donkey Kong versions in both carts is just a variant, right?

 

That means that if you have D2K Arcade, it counts towards DK Arcade as well, right?

 

DK Arcade is not the same as D2K Arcade. I can see that owning D2K arcade would satisfy your need for DK Arcade, but not the other way around.

Between the different versions of DK (Donkey Kong Arcade, DK Arcade, D2K Arcade and D2K Arcade SE) I would consider D2K Arcade Special Edition and 1 version of DK Arcade or Donkey Kong Arcade as being complete.

 

By the way, I was being facetious in my previous comment, since you seem to be coming up with arbitrary conditions and terminology that suits your personal collection (or your collectable distributor model).

Is it really necessary to start with the condescending banter? You asked some questions in your previous post and I answered them from my viewpoint which is basically the definition of an opinion. This is a discussion based on people's opinions regarding Homebrews on a list. And yes, my opinion is based on how I like to collect. When you use the word "arbitrary", you give the impression that your opinion is superior to other opinions (condescending).

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I like the idea of diffentiating "variants" from "editions". In a nutshell, while a new edition of a game may have more changes than a variant, in both cases they are still part of the same game.

 

Here are the definitions I go by. Your milage may vary.

 

A "variant" involves small changes to the game play of the game. These can include bug fixes and running changes during the production. Changing or adding cut-scene animations would still be a variant. Examples would be fast vs slow tanks in Armor Battle or the different steering available in Auto Racing. The name and artwork can change as long as it is not an explicit deliberate attempt to imply a sequel or upgrade. Thus, Donkey Kong Arcade and DK Arcade are variants.

 

An "edition" has more changes than a variant. It may have added new levels, new bosses, new easter eggs, etc. However, it does -not- have significant changes to the gameplay, such changing a 2 player only game to adding a 1 player mode vs computer AI (that would be a separate game). Ideally, the name may be changed to indicate an upgrade. Thus, DK vs D2K vs D2K 2nd Edition would be editions in the DK Arcade family.

 

I don't remember all the changes made in Same Game & Robots, but I think it mainly added Intellivoice sounds that make the game more entertaining but don't change the game play. Thus, I consider the two batches as variants.

 

A completely separate game has significant changes to the gameplay, such as adding a 1 player mode by adding computer AI. Thus, Baseball vs World Championship Baseball are separate games.

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Is it really necessary to start with the condescending banter? You asked some questions in your previous post and I answered them from my viewpoint which is basically the definition of an opinion. This is a discussion based on people's opinions regarding Homebrews on a list. And yes, my opinion is based on how I like to collect. When you use the word "arbitrary", you give the impression that your opinion is superior to other opinions (condescending).

You take it as you wish. My opinion is just as arbitrary as any other.

 

And yes, it is necessary, to expose the ridiculous nature of this whole discussion. It's very petty.

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What if I take the ROM I distribute freely, put it in LV Poker carts and re-release it in baggies. Is that a new release? And what if I change the order of the levels, or add a "bonus" level, does that count as a new release?

 

-dZ.

 

Yes. :-) - you need some carts?

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As someone who's far more of a gamer than collector, I've always aimed for a "player's subset" of the original 125: Word Fun and Math Fun, or the two Learning Fun games, but not both; Triple Challenge or its three constituent games as separate releases, but no need to have Triple Challenge if I have the separate releases.

 

(I suppose you could also say that some of the Super Pro games leave no need for the originals, but that's dicier.)

 

So I view the homebrews in much the same way. If a later release offers everything that an earlier release did, plus more, I have no reason to own the first one. I like having manuals because they give the game context and meaning, but I don't need five different manuals telling me the same thing.

 

BTW oddly enough I have both the INTV and Atari releases of Pac-Man, but my understanding is that the gameplay is no different. I also own the INTV Golf instead of the original PGA Golf, specifically because of the ROM update that slightly improves the gameplay.

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My fingerprints are on one of my carts... does that make it a rare variant? Nobody else in the world has a copy exactly like this.

Why would your fingerprints be on only ONE cart? Did you only touch one? Do you even own a fingerprint kit? Did you actually dust any carts?

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As someone who's far more of a gamer than collector, I've always aimed for a "player's subset" of the original 125: Word Fun and Math Fun, or the two Learning Fun games, but not both; Triple Challenge or its three constituent games as separate releases, but no need to have Triple Challenge if I have the separate releases.

 

(I suppose you could also say that some of the Super Pro games leave no need for the originals, but that's dicier.)

 

So I view the homebrews in much the same way. If a later release offers everything that an earlier release did, plus more, I have no reason to own the first one. I like having manuals because they give the game context and meaning, but I don't need five different manuals telling me the same thing.

 

BTW oddly enough I have both the INTV and Atari releases of Pac-Man, but my understanding is that the gameplay is no different. I also own the INTV Golf instead of the original PGA Golf, specifically because of the ROM update that slightly improves the gameplay.

I think the only INTV Super Pro game that makes the original sports game completely redundant is Mountain Madness Super Pro Skiing. If you have DK Arcade and D2K Arcade Special Edition than you don't need Donkey Kong Arcade or D2K Arcade. INTV Pac-Man is a re-release of Atari Pac-Man. And Learning Fun I and II are supersets of Math Fun and Word Fun.

 

edit:

Chip Shot Super Pro Golf was a complete rewrite and, unlike some of the other games, did not use any of the code from the original (according to intellivisionlives.com).

Edited by mr_me
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And Learning Fun I and II are supersets of Math Fun and Word Fun.

 

Oh, I had forgotten that -- thanks for the reminder.

 

EDIT: To clarify, I own Chip Shot Super Pro Golf and the INTV release under the title Golf, which was originally released by Mattel as PGA Golf. I actually prefer the gameplay in Golf/PGA Golf over Chip Shot (though CSSPG has some nice bells & whistles), and the INTV release Golf adds a "yards to hole" function that makes a small but real difference in gameplay.

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I'm just gonna piss off a number of people and say that this should actually be 2 lists: one for actual homebrew (with whatever variant structure you prefer), and another for "we grabbed this ROM off a Mattel CD-ROM and burnt it to some carts". Sorry, but Lock n Chase has no business being on a list along with Kroz or Sydney Hunter. The only things that it has in common is that someone made a box/cart variant for an already released game. Whoopee.

 

I could get Spiker! repro boxes printed up and flash a bunch of carts - is that now a homebrew release? No, it's called a pirated cart. Virtually all collector lists for other systems separate pirate releases from homebrew. Regardless of the year the pirate cart is released. While the Intellivision had virtually no pirate releases back in the day, that's still not a reason to call these any more "legit" than a pirate release for say the 2600 or Famicom.

 

But as with anything, I guess it depends on if you collect games or cardboard. From a cardboard standpoint, obviously these are all separate releases (and the cardboard often has quite beautiful new art).

 

Disclaimer - I am an AVID pirate cart collector. I've got some 2600 variants that are still undumped as far as I can tell (actual ROM variants to boot). And I LOVE pirated Famicom multicarts. I don't mean the above as a condemnation of the pirate scene in the slightest. I just don't even a hint of "homebrewing" going on with these pirate releases.

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As someone who's far more of a gamer than collector, I've always aimed for a "player's subset" of the original 125: Word Fun and Math Fun, or the two Learning Fun games, but not both; Triple Challenge or its three constituent games as separate releases, but no need to have Triple Challenge if I have the separate releases.

 

Yup... And the core of my personal collection is of original releases only. Sure, I have some variations and almost all of the home-brew stuff (except for the super-secret, basically unattainable stuff... though I do have some of that as well :0). But I consider the core of my collection to be the original (first run) cart label, box, manual and overlays. I have the Learning Fun games in my collection but my core had to have Math Fun and Word Fun as originally released. Just me. To each his own.

 

FYI,

 

Knowing what was original or first run? That is another fun part of the collecting for me.

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I'm just gonna piss off a number of people and say that this should actually be 2 lists: one for actual homebrew (with whatever variant structure you prefer), and another for "we grabbed this ROM off a Mattel CD-ROM and burnt it to some carts". Sorry, but Lock n Chase has no business being on a list along with Kroz or Sydney Hunter. The only things that it has in common is that someone made a box/cart variant for an already released game. Whoopee.

 

I could get Spiker! repro boxes printed up and flash a bunch of carts - is that now a homebrew release? No, it's called a pirated cart. Virtually all collector lists for other systems separate pirate releases from homebrew. Regardless of the year the pirate cart is released. While the Intellivision had virtually no pirate releases back in the day, that's still not a reason to call these any more "legit" than a pirate release for say the 2600 or Famicom.

 

But as with anything, I guess it depends on if you collect games or cardboard. From a cardboard standpoint, obviously these are all separate releases (and the cardboard often has quite beautiful new art).

 

Disclaimer - I am an AVID pirate cart collector. I've got some 2600 variants that are still undumped as far as I can tell (actual ROM variants to boot). And I LOVE pirated Famicom multicarts. I don't mean the above as a condemnation of the pirate scene in the slightest. I just don't even a hint of "homebrewing" going on with these pirate releases.

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

So, we have the "Official" 125, the "Home-Brews" list, and the "Pirated" list. Where do the variants go? :rolling:

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As I stated before My Opinion on the Original Release's count is that any release that was released When Intellivison had its commercial run Should be counted. It is an Original release as in released in the original era of the Intellivision. What ever that number is.. It doesn't really mean a game or rom difference.. Its what actually was released ..

 

:)

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As I stated before My Opinion on the Original Release's count is that any release that was released When Intellivison had its commercial run Should be counted. It is an Original release as in released in the original era of the Intellivision. What ever that number is.. It doesn't really mean a game or rom difference.. Its what actually was released ..

 

:)

 

I would vote for this. Who's counting? :thumbsup:

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I'm just gonna piss off a number of people and say that this should actually be 2 lists: one for actual homebrew (with whatever variant structure you prefer), and another for "we grabbed this ROM off a Mattel CD-ROM and burnt it to some carts". Sorry, but Lock n Chase has no business being on a list along with Kroz or Sydney Hunter. The only things that it has in common is that someone made a box/cart variant for an already released game. Whoopee.

 

I could get Spiker! repro boxes printed up and flash a bunch of carts - is that now a homebrew release? No, it's called a pirated cart. Virtually all collector lists for other systems separate pirate releases from homebrew. Regardless of the year the pirate cart is released. While the Intellivision had virtually no pirate releases back in the day, that's still not a reason to call these any more "legit" than a pirate release for say the 2600 or Famicom.

 

But as with anything, I guess it depends on if you collect games or cardboard. From a cardboard standpoint, obviously these are all separate releases (and the cardboard often has quite beautiful new art).

 

Disclaimer - I am an AVID pirate cart collector. I've got some 2600 variants that are still undumped as far as I can tell (actual ROM variants to boot). And I LOVE pirated Famicom multicarts. I don't mean the above as a condemnation of the pirate scene in the slightest. I just don't even a hint of "homebrewing" going on with these pirate releases.

 

This idea has merit

 

This may be SoulBusters list but his alone.

We all have our own opinions on "the real numbers" and most of us have no "commercial" interest at all in all this variant crap.

 

I have come to realize that is exactly it. Everyone has their own idea of what to collect. This list happens to be mine and in the style that I like to collect. I am going to change the title.

 

That being said, this list and the hard core list both have all the homebrews on them and can be a good starting place for those getting into collecting homebrews. They will make their own decision what goes on their own list.

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