freewheel Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 2 things tonight, I'm gonna make 2 posts in case people start quoting and it gets confusing. First: Sr. nanochess, I have uncovered a bit of a problem with IntyBASIC and memory mapping. Typically, a lot of us are using hacks like ASM ORG $C100, to get a lot more ROM space. Well... it turns out that at least *I* have never actually tested this with the ECS turned on in jzintv. So I only discovered this when using a REAL ECS for my games. The ECS maps its ROMs at $E000-$EFFF, and that breaks any program that maps into that space (which my bigger games do). Joe Z posted a fix for this a long while back, which completely disables the ECS: ORG $4800 ; Disable ECS ROMs so that they don't conflict with us MVII #$2A5F, R0 MVO R0, $2FFF MVII #$7A5F, R0 MVO R0, $7FFF MVII #$EA5F, R0 MVO R0, $EFFF B $1041 ; resume boot In his words, "You should be able to blindly drop that in the epilogue at the end and get most of the benefit." Of course, some people will want to use the ECS - so maybe have a BASIC command, ECS ON/OFF? Or maybe it's off by default (most games won't use it), and you have to specify ECS ON when you want to use it. And then we'll have to somehow document it so that people don't run into the $EXXX range when they want to use the ECS. Let me know if I'm not making sense. I think a few people's games are going to break if they turn on the ECS in jzintv. Mine sure did 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheel Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Second: The code for music synth scanning that intvnut posted above works flawlessly. Aaaaaaaand, I'm happy to announce that the LTO Flash! works with a "fully extended" system - console, ECS, Intellivoice, Music Synthesizer, and cart. Plus a ROM that takes advantage of all of the above. I'll post something eventually, once I get it a bit less hacky. The ROM works just fine in jzintv with --ecs=1 and -v1. I figure there might be 5 people on the planet right now that can experience the full thing in all its glory. But that's gonna change soon! Ironically, the 49-key keyboard doesn't have enough keys. Who would have thought? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I think a few people's games are going to break if they turn on the ECS in jzintv. Mine sure did If you use "cont3" or "cont4" or have a "sound 5,0,0" in your code then the ECS ROMs are automagically mapped out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheel Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 If you use "cont3" or "cont4" or have a "sound 5,0,0" in your code then the ECS ROMs are automagically mapped out. Counter-intuitive, but makes sense. The problem is then for games that don't use them - or people who don't know about this "trick". The code that maps them out should be included by default, really. How many people are ever going to use the ECS ROMs in their games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+nanochess Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Counter-intuitive, but makes sense. The problem is then for games that don't use them - or people who don't know about this "trick". The code that maps them out should be included by default, really. How many people are ever going to use the ECS ROMs in their games? If you stick to the standard Intellivision memory map of $5000-$6fff, $d000-$dfff and $f000-$ffff you should not find any trouble The ECS code is only required when you expand over other memory areas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheel Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 If you stick to the standard Intellivision memory map of $5000-$6fff, $d000-$dfff and $f000-$ffff you should not find any trouble The ECS code is only required when you expand over other memory areas. Well sure, but why give up 16K for nothing? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 You could use a bankswitching cartridge for the ECS if you need more than 16K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) You could use a bankswitching cartridge for the ECS if you need more than 16K. Ugh, bank-switching is not necessary. Most PCB boards (including the upcoming flash-carts) contain built-in RAM, and for ROMs, the emulator supports it. I'm with freewheel on this: just switch the ECS to an unused bank and get it out of the way using Joe Z.'s hack. There is no need for the ECS EXEC at all, and this does not affect the extra PSG. Edited October 24, 2015 by DZ-Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheel Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 *grumble grumble* stupid PC keyboard ghosting. The Intellivision can register 49 discrete keypresses. My PC keyboard manages far fewer - sometimes as few as 2 depending on the exact keys I'm pressing. The Intellivision, with ECS attached, has 6 distinct sound channels. I need to be able to distinguish 6 discrete keys being pressed. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO PROPERLY TEST THIS IN EMULATION. *ahem* Although... I thought modern PC keyboards could register a lot more discrete keys pressed at once. Is this a jzintv thing? Regardless: Thanks be to the man who got me a way to test on real hardware! I'm giggling like a schoolgirl at the moment. This is (so far) a lot easier than I thought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheel Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Feature request: SOUND index,value,vol. The same way SPRITE index,x,y,f works. And in a perfect world, SOUND 0-5 would represent all 6 possible sound channels, 6 and 7 the envelopes, 8 and 9 the noise channels. Or something to that effect. This of course will break SOUND for a lot of people. Hmmm....I guess that's easily done via lookup table to not break things for everyone else But I'd LOOOOOVE SOUND index! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Its already in there! SOUND 0,[VALUE 12 bits],[VOL 0-15] Channel A SOUND 1,[VALUE 12 bits],[VOL 0-15] Channel B SOUND 2,[VALUE 12 bits],[VOL 0-15] Channel C SOUND 3,[VALUE 16 bits],[TYPE 0-15] Envelope (frequency/shape) SOUND 4,[NOISE 6 bits],[MIX] Noise and mix register ($38 value by default) Only for the secondary PSG in ECS add-on module SOUND 5,[VALUE 12 bits],[VOL 0-15] Channel A SOUND 6,[VALUE 12 bits],[VOL 0-15] Channel B SOUND 7,[VALUE 12 bits],[VOL 0-15] Channel C SOUND 8,[VALUE 16 bits],[TYPE 0-15] Envelope (frequency/shape) SOUND 9,[NOISE 6 bits],[MIX] Noise and mix register ($38 value by default) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+nanochess Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 Feature request: SOUND index,value,vol. The same way SPRITE index,x,y,f works. And in a perfect world, SOUND 0-5 would represent all 6 possible sound channels, 6 and 7 the envelopes, 8 and 9 the noise channels. Or something to that effect. This of course will break SOUND for a lot of people. Hmmm....I guess that's easily done via lookup table to not break things for everyone else But I'd LOOOOOVE SOUND index! Oh yes! SOUND index still it's constant. I've took note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheel Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Its already in there! Not as an index Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 To me, using a variable as the channel isn't much use unless you are making a prioritising sound FX engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 To me, using a variable as the channel isn't much use unless you are making a prioritising sound FX engine. Or trying to implement a synthesizer, which is what I rather suspect is going on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheel Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Or trying to implement a synthesizer, which is what I rather suspect is going on here. I can think of a few other uses, but yeah - I'm not exactly hiding what I'm working on. It took me surprisingly little effort to make it functional. Now I just have to write some logic to translate keys into frequencies, and the basic framework is complete. First homebrew Music Synthesizer program? How many did Mattel even bother with? 1 released, and a couple of unfinished prototypes? Even though the synth market is rather ... limited (based on serial numbers I think they sold maybe 10,000 of these things?), I think it's safe to say that a lot of people interested in homebrew own an ECS - these extra sound channels are a godsend. I'm just starting to realize how much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheel Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Ah, my kingdom for a full floating point implementation (and exponentiation). Plus the horsepower to calculate it. Lookup tables to the rescue! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) I can think of a few other uses, but yeah - I'm not exactly hiding what I'm working on. It took me surprisingly little effort to make it functional. Now I just have to write some logic to translate keys into frequencies, and the basic framework is complete. First homebrew Music Synthesizer program? How many did Mattel even bother with? 1 released, and a couple of unfinished prototypes? Well, there's this one I released awhile back: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/193981-reading-the-ecs-keyboards/?p=2464183 It didn't have programmable patches or anything, though. I also have a program I need to polish up for release, probably right behind LTO Flash! It takes the synth idea a big step further: It scans the synth keyboard and hand controllers and sends keyup/keydown events out over serial. It receives PSG and voice parameters to play via serial also. This lets you do all sorts of heavy duty computation on a PC, but still use the synth keyboard for input and the PSGs for output. EDIT: It appears I hadn't actually posted the synth.zip that was meant to go with the post I linked above. I just edited that post to have the source archive along with the binary. Ah, my kingdom for a full floating point implementation (and exponentiation). Plus the horsepower to calculate it. Lookup tables to the rescue! I assume you want a pow(2.0, n/12.0), eh? Edited October 25, 2015 by intvnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheel Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 And now for an actual IntyBASIC question/problem: Oscar, I thought the NTSC/PAL detection was working (I swear I tested it...). However, this: IF NTSC = 1 THEN PRINT AT 1,"ntsc" ELSE PRINT AT 1,"pal" always prints NTSC no matter what. Even when I specify --pal with jzintv. And I KNOW that the --pal switch is working (I think?), because SOUND is the wrong pitch when --pal is turned on. Also just printing NTSC always gives me 1. Did I forget something in terms of how this works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+nanochess Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 And now for an actual IntyBASIC question/problem: Oscar, I thought the NTSC/PAL detection was working (I swear I tested it...). However, this: IF NTSC = 1 THEN PRINT AT 1,"ntsc" ELSE PRINT AT 1,"pal" always prints NTSC no matter what. Even when I specify --pal with jzintv. And I KNOW that the --pal switch is working (I think?), because SOUND is the wrong pitch when --pal is turned on. Also just printing NTSC always gives me 1. Did I forget something in terms of how this works? I'm surprised I don't have changed anything in that section in a long time... The intybasic_prologue.asm looks good, I'll check it Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) I'm surprised I don't have changed anything in that section in a long time... The intybasic_prologue.asm looks good, I'll check it Monday. I just ran the PAL/NTSC check in the current version of jzIntv, and the two counts I get for the loop are 444 and 596. The count should always be higher for PAL than for NTSC, as PAL machines have 1MHz CPUs and only a 50Hz interrupt rate, while NTSC machines have 895kHz CPUs and a 60Hz interrupt rate. You get 20000 cycles between interrupts on the PAL machine, but only 14934 on NTSC. In your code, though, you use a smaller number for PAL, which doesn't make any sense to me: . ; 387 for PAL in jzintv ; 444 for NTSC in jzintv CMPI #415,R2 MVII #1,R0 BGE _MAIN3 CLRR R0 _MAIN3: MVO R0,_ntsc . At one time I had messed up the CPU rate for PAL in jzIntv, but I've since fixed it. I don't think I messed it up badly enough to give a smaller number for PAL on this loop, though. I would've noticed that. You'll want a number more like 520 as your threshold, not 415. Edited October 26, 2015 by intvnut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+nanochess Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 I just ran the PAL/NTSC check in the current version of jzIntv, and the two counts I get for the loop are 444 and 596. The count should always be higher for PAL than for NTSC, as PAL machines have 1MHz CPUs and only a 50Hz interrupt rate, while NTSC machines have 895kHz CPUs and a 60Hz interrupt rate. You get 20000 cycles between interrupts on the PAL machine, but only 14934 on NTSC. In your code, though, you use a smaller number for PAL, which doesn't make any sense to me: . ; 387 for PAL in jzintv ; 444 for NTSC in jzintv CMPI #415,R2 MVII #1,R0 BGE _MAIN3 CLRR R0 _MAIN3: MVO R0,_ntsc . At one time I had messed up the CPU rate for PAL in jzIntv, but I've since fixed it. I don't think I messed it up badly enough to give a smaller number for PAL on this loop, though. I would've noticed that. You'll want a number more like 520 as your threshold, not 415. I suppose I was using an old version of jzintv. So far everyone can change in intybasic_prologue.asm the 415 to 520 as suggested by intvnut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I suppose I was using an old version of jzintv. So far everyone can change in intybasic_prologue.asm the 415 to 520 as suggested by intvnut. I just checked Beta4, and the PAL side gives 566, which is slightly smaller than what the latest build gives. (This makes sense; I had set the CPU MHz too low, but still higher than NTSC.) A threshold of 520 will work for Beta4 and the current stable dev build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheel Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 What's weird is that I specifically used the --pal flag and the NTSC value to calibrate timing in Desert Bus, and it worked flawlessly. Down to within about 3 seconds when simulated out to 8 hours! Now I'm really confused... the timing code came from an example by intvnut, but I can't see you taking into account IntyBASIC's "minor issue". Weird. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+nanochess Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 What's weird is that I specifically used the --pal flag and the NTSC value to calibrate timing in Desert Bus, and it worked flawlessly. Down to within about 3 seconds when simulated out to 8 hours! Now I'm really confused... the timing code came from an example by intvnut, but I can't see you taking into account IntyBASIC's "minor issue". Weird. I'm surprised. I had ran my own test long time ago, maybe the weekend I can check this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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