_The Doctor__ Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 (edited) ah the goodwill is indeed a national chain, the tip to follow, dress up is grungy protective clothes with good gloves and go to their big ole bin locations... you will be surprised what you find, though you have some aggressive people showing up at those places these days as well... regular smaller thrift and rummage shops still get stuff in.... I no longer post direct names, as the nit wits show up and suck it dry... best bet just keep your eyes open and check odd places out... you will get a deal... you will be surprised. some of these places have pcb's in boxes and have no idea what they are.... they just aren't labeled that way and there are so many they don't bother to sort them at all.... same for all kinds of other electronics.... keep your eyes open on old sites and old nets etc.... Edited July 11, 2018 by _The Doctor__ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80s_Atari_Guy Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 All my local second-hand shops, charity shops, and pre-owned games stores, all now use ebay to price their retro stuff. But what is annoying is that most of them use BIN sales, and the more expensive BINs, not what those items actually sold for. So, for example, they might have a nice boxed SNES for sale. They will price it the same as a high-priced BIN, not prices of actual sold boxed SNES. I often ask them about the condition, has it yellowed, does it have the polys/manuals/PSU/cables. etc.. But I don't think they care or understand. I have told one of the guys there that you won't sell that yellowed SNES, unless the buyer either doesn't care, or is prepared to put some graft in and de-yellow it. Here in the UK, we have Car-Boot sales where people take their cars to large open spaces - normally a massive grass field. And sell their stuff from their cars. These are the places to get retro on the cheap. Problem is, the one near me is massive - the size of a football pitch - and you need to be there early, very early. It takes about 1 hour, just to walk every isle, and you need to be on your game. The downside, is often the sellers just take really poor quality stuff there. Often filthy, and unboxed, and no way of telling if it's working. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 yes, filthy, un-boxed and cheap.... most stuff I get from ebay has been filthy re boxed in any box they could find and no so cheap lol! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 (edited) All my local second-hand shops, charity shops, and pre-owned games stores, all now use ebay to price their retro stuff. But what is annoying is that most of them use BIN sales, and the more expensive BINs, not what those items actually sold for. So, for example, they might have a nice boxed SNES for sale. They will price it the same as a high-priced BIN, not prices of actual sold boxed SNES. I often ask them about the condition, has it yellowed, does it have the polys/manuals/PSU/cables. etc.. But I don't think they care or understand. I have told one of the guys there that you won't sell that yellowed SNES, unless the buyer either doesn't care, or is prepared to put some graft in and de-yellow it. Here in the UK, we have Car-Boot sales where people take their cars to large open spaces - normally a massive grass field. And sell their stuff from their cars. These are the places to get retro on the cheap. Problem is, the one near me is massive - the size of a football pitch - and you need to be there early, very early. It takes about 1 hour, just to walk every isle, and you need to be on your game. The downside, is often the sellers just take really poor quality stuff there. Often filthy, and unboxed, and no way of telling if it's working. That has been my experience here in the states too. About ten years ago I used to make my rounds to thrifts, goodwill's and flee markets (what you call car-boot sales), stock up on vintage stuff that needed to be rebuilt/refurbished and then repair, refurbish and re-sell on ebay to make money (at reasonable prices) in the off-season (I'm a contractor). But that's impossible these days, you pay top-dollar for less-than-good items and there is no room to make a profit after restoring the items. So I stopped doing it, except for my own personal collection, when I do find a fair deal. I still check out garage/yard sales when I can, but as I said before, there's never any good vintage electronics, power equipment or tools (the stuff guys are looking for) anymore, they save them for ebay and just sell old clothes, dishes and woman's nick-nacks anymore. Occasionally I see decent stuff on Craig's list, but even there, more and more they want ridiculous prices just like ebay. Especially since Craig's List isn't free anymore like it used to be, now you have to pay $5 per listing. Edited July 11, 2018 by Gunstar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 ioffer letgo offerup etc etc freecycle... etc etc... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 (edited) ah the goodwill is indeed a national chain, the tip to follow, dress up is grungy protective clothes with good gloves and go to their big ole bin locations... you will be surprised what you find It has been years and years, certainly more than a decade, since I have found anything Atari related in any Lehigh Valley thrift store. And that one in Palmer right off WM Penn Highway is the worst of the worst; I feel that I need to immediately take a hot shower whenever I leave that place. More power to you if you can put up with searching there with any sort of regularity but I just can't take it any more. Edited July 12, 2018 by SS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 ioffer letgo offerup etc etc freecycle... etc etc... I've heard of letgo from the commercials, I just forget to check it out. Never heard of the others, it's hard to find places if you don't know what to search for. Thanks for the examples, I will check them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 omg, American family? they sometimes sit the Atari stuff out by the crusher.... they don't even take it into the store.... you have to be brave to go inside.... it's disgusting as are many of the shoppers.... I have others drive by the place or look inside for me, I can't handle going in there either.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 remember always take a wing man who lays back and watches, close enough to be useful, laying back enough to be seen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelmischief Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Nope there is a concerted effort and price fixing that goes on... Exactly how is that supposed to work? Single individuals sell things they own for the highest prices they think get for their possessions. In what way is that is a conspiracy by eBay to fix prices? One of us is a bit delusional. Problem is, I am not entirely sure it isn't me. So, please, offer some logic for your argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) have you seen the pricing guides? do you know what terapeek is? have you watched the long term sellers and how they operated.... have you ever seen a sniping bot? or sniping bot service? Have you ever been in an ebayers physical shop and watched their bot run up an auction they have running? It's not delusional, it's a common practice to have shilling accounts and bots in this day and age. You don't even need workers and friends to do it for you anymore.... You might not know or see any of it as a plain ole person who puts something up once or twice in your life.... but you can easily do some research and watch how the get rich crowd runs the game on ebay. At one time there were sites exposing how ebay s*cked and showed the conversations and tools involved... I bet you can still google ebay sniping bot and shilling services.... hidbid, gixen, harvex and it's macrobot variants..... some just call themselves Sniper bot (generic name here), shillbot (whatever name) In any event the service is located as close to the ebay servers ping wise as possible... the ai watches the auction and does not bid until someone else bids... the macros and scripts fire based on what the shilling bot is set for. there is a cut off of the shilling bot based on time left in the auction, bots reserve goal, and the timing of competing bids... the bot leaves up as bidding leaves up... if it thinks it detects a sniping bot based on it's algorithm it will slam a bunch of bids in at the end... if the bot wins the seller may either pay himself, retract, or offer the human bidder a second chance at the last bid they made before the bot won....with some mention of the winner backing out etc. the bots and services are usually tuned pretty well. The best way to combat this is if people do not got carried away by the game. put in a good, solid, low end bid and walk away... or better yet just buy from regular decent upstanding Atarians. ever wonder why you have to do captcha puzzles to sign in and use services on so many thing these days? It is to screen out bots, eBay refuses to use anything to verify a human is actually bidding. Edited July 12, 2018 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelmischief Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Right. All of what you are saying, I understand. It is specifically the accusation of price fixing by eBay that I am asking about; even to the extent that you believe it might reach the level of illegal activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) this has been going on a long time.... http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abn/y06/m05/i31/s01 and don't forget to check ebay's policies and see how it's condoned https://cappnonymous.wordpress.com/2012/12/29/ebays-secret-shill-bidding-policy-and-tutorial-changes-revisted/ and of course don't forget to check out how it used to be done and the studies on how to detect some of it.... https://cheaptalk.org/2010/02/12/how-to-shill-on-ebay/ and there are further mathematicians with lots of letters and degrees etc after their names that confirm and verify data and explain how all the ai and bots work... if you want to go down the rabbit hole... Edited July 12, 2018 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80s_Atari_Guy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Right. All of what you are saying, I understand. It is specifically the accusation of price fixing by eBay that I am asking about; even to the extent that you believe it might reach the level of illegal activity. pixelmischief, I can't speak for The Doctor, but I kind of see what he might be getting at. When you advertise on ebay, say a retro item, ebay tries to influence the price by saying something along the lines of "This item recently sold for xx.xx amount", they then fill in automatically the price for your item, and it's down to the seller to change this and put their own price in. The same goes for postage, ebay seems to want to dictate how much you post it for and who the postal service is. Again, you have to manually edit this and put your own price in. So, a lot of prices on ebay, from sellers who might not know the real value, are influenced by ebay's "This item recently sold for". For example, a Commodore 64 might have recently sold for £150 ($198). But what the seller isn't told is that the C64 may have been boxed and had a 1541 included. So the seller thinks their C64, unboxed, yellowed, and no games or 1541, is now worth £150. And this is what is driving prices up, because that C64 would have only been worth less than half the price recommended by ebay. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelmischief Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 his has been going on a long time.... http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abn/y06/m05/i31/s01 and don't forget to check ebay's policies and see how it's condoned https://cappnonymous.wordpress.com/2012/12/29/ebays-secret-shill-bidding-policy-and-tutorial-changes-revisted/ and of course don't forget to check out how it used to be done and the studies on how to detect some of it.... https://cheaptalk.org/2010/02/12/how-to-shill-on-ebay/ and there are further mathematicians with lots of letters and degrees etc after their names that confirm and verify data and explain how all the ai and bots work... if you want to go down the rabbit hole... Wow! Thank you for opening my eyes to this. I was not altogether blind to the profit motive eBay has to encourage more people to sell more things for more money. But I had no idea that their willful manipulation of the factors was so concerted and systemic. I am afraid I can no longer sell on eBay as a result. When you advertise on ebay, say a retro item, ebay tries to influence the price by saying something along the lines of "This item recently sold for xx.xx amount", they then fill in automatically the price for your item, and it's down to the seller to change this and put their own price in. The same goes for postage, ebay seems to want to dictate how much you post it for and who the postal service is. Again, you have to manually edit this and put your own price in. Incredible. This "service" seemed so convenient, and had become so ubiquitous, that the suddenly obvious truth of its insidious nature slipped right by me. Age does come with wisdom, but it also comes with the over-valuation of conveniences because of how precious time then seems. Thank you for explaining it so clearly. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 In my experience you can still get bargains on eBay but it takes a LOT more patience than it used to, and a lot more careful searching and evaluation. Until the nostalgia bubble pops and this stuff just becomes “worthless crap in the garage again” the idea of easy finds is basically dried up. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I have stopped selling all together on ebay, and it is specifically because of ebay themselves and how they filled in all the blanks and decide for me, and then I had to go and change stuff, and some of it was hard to figure out how to change. I couldn't believe the gall of ebay. I'll still buy through them once in a while, but Amazon is now always my first stop now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) People miss a lot of stuff on ABBUC......did you see that a full POKEY replacement WITH stereo is registered for the coming hardware contest ? That should make some waves....if it delivers what it promises My newest addition: An Atari 1025 ! Very very rare in Europe and to top it a bit further it's the even more rare European version. Not that that is all good (although it made some local collector here a bit jealous...) because the weird power supply/transformer was not with it....but we'll solve that And this for just 25 euro's....ex. Shipping from Germany.... Edited July 12, 2018 by Level42 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80s_Atari_Guy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) Did you also know that ebay actually edits your By-It-Now sells, puts in their own price, and will often change the ad from a BIN ad to a bidding ad ? I had a lot of 1970s Tomy plastic mini games called Pocketeers. I knew their value, and also knew the more desirable and rarer ones - 2 of which I had. I listed them as By-It-Now ads with a fixed price and postage for each, and NO offers. Within a week, ebay changed the lot, all of them. So I now had 20 ads changed from By-It-Now NO Offer, to Bidding starting at a low offer, and "Make Offer" was now available. They also changed my fixed postage, which simply covered my costs, to FREE Postage. And their message to me was something like "We have changed your ads because they were not selling, and offered free postage." - I mean, unbelievable. So I had to manually change 20 ads, quickly, before anyone started bidding. Edit: Wow, don't see a 1025, very often. Edited July 12, 2018 by 80s_Atari_Guy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 People miss a lot of stuff on ABBUC......did you see that a full POKEY replacement WITH stereo is registered for the coming hardware contest ? That should make some waves....if it delivers what it promises Yeah I’m not an ABBUC member (I gather few US Atari fans are even aware of it). I hope this comes to fruition and it’s cheap enough in quantity (well under current POKEY prices of $20 each) to make it a viable solution. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Awesome - I am an ABBUC member even though I cannot read German. I like the magazines and disks, and I'm sure every but of support helps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I never sell on ebay and rarerly ever buy from it these days. Ebay shipping prices from the US are Insane. Yeah I was very lucky to score this one....I'll, open a thread about it as it's pretty interesting machine IMHO. Picking up some brand new lints for it tomorrow which cost close to nothing....I was amazed they still make typewriter lints at all LOL. I'm lucky to be Dutch, German and English are no problem for me...but for an international club it would be awesome if they translated the magazines ro English,however I can totally understand that there simply is no time....it's a lot of work... Same thing goes for the Polish guys, they create such amazing games and also hardware, but sometimes language is still a barrier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80s_Atari_Guy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I have the 1020, the one shoe-horned into a 1010 case. It's ok, typical 80s printer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Both Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 So that my report is not unbalanced , I would like to provide two more addresses. Regarding Sdrive-max : http://www.kbrnet.de/projekte/sdrive-max/index.html http://www.abbuc.de/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9451 Sorry guys, German only. It looks like 'kbr', the developer (first adress) made his project available / advertsed his project on both forums. Stefan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 The coolest new thing I have 'found' is without a doubt the SDrive-MAX. Seriously, this thing rocks. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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