FPGA Based Videogame System

[Andromeda Stardust]

Unrelated, but I watched your teardown video of the AVS. Odd that Brian took 5V from USB and converted it to 3.3V bus for the FPGA, then upped it to 5V using a boost converter for the cart bus. Why do that? Must be a lot of efficiency loss with that. Why not put a step up / step down 5V regulator on the USB 5V to ensure proper cart bus voltage in the event a poor supply is used?

[veelk55]

that box art is hilarious!

 

 

I am still slowly plugging away here at things. I have been working on an LCD interface doodad and have gotten some of the cores working on it, which means I could theoretically release some kind of portable system with an FPGA on it. Was thinking of doing a small video on it soon to show what I have.

 

Looool im glad!

It's the Zumba logo, but instead of having a stick person in the green circle, it's a chip

 

Wow a portable version is very sweet though I spend more time on bigger screens, it's nice to know it will be a possibility for practical use.

 

 

Unrelated, but I watched your teardown video of the AVS. Odd that Brian took 5V from USB and converted it to 3.3V bus for the FPGA, then upped it to 5V using a boost converter for the cart bus. Why do that? Must be a lot of efficiency loss with that. Why not put a step up / step down 5V regulator on the USB 5V to ensure proper cart bus voltage in the event a poor supply is used?

 

Wow, I know too little about electronics to know that, but so far I've run the AVS through a lot of different options for experiment / convenience.

It connects to the PS4, PS TV, HDTV's USB port, iPhone/ generic USB smartphone chargers... no problems at all.

Edited October 8, 2016 by veelk55

[veelk55]

........ wow, the thread went completely mute after my last post almost a month ago. Did I kill something? (Sorry for double post.... and near necropost XD)

[Newsdee]

I've noticed that there are Altera-based boards now at $250 which have everything needed to be the brains of a Zimbra 3000 (check out the Terasic DE1-SoC).

 

It's a pure development board so you don't get any cores (have to compile your own from open source). But if you compare to an Analogue NT mini, you could add a case and adapters (e.g. cart connectors) at a lower price.

 

I get that most people would want something that isn't a hobbyist setup, but would this show a lower bound on the price for this kind of boards? (basically, any lower quantities would be less cost efficient to make)

[kevtris]

Just a small update: I have been working on my cores a bit more, but have been swamped with paid work which is dominating most of my time right now. work all day, come home and work all night has been how things have gone the last few months. When I get some time here and there I put more work in on the Zimba though!

 

re: dev boards. Yes, they work to run FPGA cores no problem, the big issue though is a lack of "videogame" style IOs. Most do have RGB on them these days, however. But if you want controllers and HDMI and stuff you have to add it yourself with an add-on board of some flavor.

[Newsdee]

Yes of course, one would have to add a case and expansion boards to "consolize" it, and you'd easily get to $300 or $350 at least.

(that said - this one board has a USB host so you could plug USB controllers into it easily. It's more the lack of HDMI that's annoying)

[narshe]

Just a small update: I have been working on my cores a bit more, but have been swamped with paid work which is dominating most of my time right now. work all day, come home and work all night has been how things have gone the last few months. When I get some time here and there I put more work in on the Zimba though!

 

re: dev boards. Yes, they work to run FPGA cores no problem, the big issue though is a lack of "videogame" style IOs. Most do have RGB on them these days, however. But if you want controllers and HDMI and stuff you have to add it yourself with an add-on board of some flavor.

 

This has been my life for the past 2.5 years. Software though, not hardware.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Just a small update: I have been working on my cores a bit more, but have been swamped with paid work which is dominating most of my time right now. work all day, come home and work all night has been how things have gone the last few months. When I get some time here and there I put more work in on the Zimba though!

 

re: dev boards. Yes, they work to run FPGA cores no problem, the big issue though is a lack of "videogame" style IOs. Most do have RGB on them these days, however. But if you want controllers and HDMI and stuff you have to add it yourself with an add-on board of some flavor.

I hear Analogue NT Mini is using your NES core. Hope that's going well and I imagine keeping you busy also.

[Dragun]

Any plans for cheat code support - either with a file containing cheats by console or a manual cheat entry menu?

[phoenixdownita]

....

 

re: dev boards. Yes, they work to run FPGA cores no problem, the big issue though is a lack of "videogame" style IOs. Most do have RGB on them these days, however. But if you want controllers and HDMI and stuff you have to add it yourself with an add-on board of some flavor.

How about the Arrow DECA?

 

https://www.arrow.com/en/products/deca/arrow-development-tools

[Pixelboy]

An interesting idea just came to me: Would it be possible to have dedicated one-size-fits-all Zimba carts? What I mean by that is a cartridge into which you could install the ROM of an Atari game, or ColecoVision, NES, SMS, or whatever console/handheld the Zimba supports. The electronics inside the Zimba cartridge would differ according to the ROM type, but the cartridge casing and edge connector pin-out would always be the same.

 

In practice, this would require proper licensing to re-issue old games this way on the Zimba, but I'm more interested in the technical aspects of such a cartridge. Would it be technically possible to begin with?

[Keatah]

Technically? Sure, why not.. Economically - another story I'd guess.

[Newsdee]

a cartridge into which you could install the ROM of an Atari game, or ColecoVision, NES, SMS, or whatever console/handheld the Zimba supports. The electronics inside the Zimba cartridge would differ according to the ROM type, but the cartridge casing and edge connector pin-out would always be the same.

Yes, it's called SD cards. Look at the MiST for instance, it works by configuring the FPGA from a file in the root folder, so in practice you can switch systems by switching cards. It's very convenient.

 

Now obviously that doesn't feel like a cart but then its just a matter of putting it in a case that you plug in. For copyight etc. you can make the card read only. This is more or less what is done for the Vita, the DS and soon the Switch.

[Pixelboy]

Yes, it's called SD cards. Look at the MiST for instance, it works by configuring the FPGA from a file in the root folder, so in practice you can switch systems by switching cards. It's very convenient.

Yeah, but that's not exactly what I'm talking about. You extract the ROM file from the SD card into some kind of RAM space and run the game from RAM, and you could actually remove the SD card from the console after the game is loaded and keep playing. I'm talking more about an old-school way of doing things, with the CPU constantly pulling bytes from the ROM on the cartridge as needed.

[Newsdee]

Yeah, but that's not exactly what I'm talking about. You extract the ROM file from the SD card into some kind of RAM space and run the game from RAM, and you could actually remove the SD card from the console after the game is loaded and keep playing. I'm talking more about an old-school way of doing things, with the CPU constantly pulling bytes from the ROM on the cartridge as needed.

Why though? It's too expensive to make ROM chips nowadays and not even Nintendo bothers to do that.

 

There is one reason though and that is to add new "mappers" (hardware expansion really) to the base hardware. But that would make carts very expensive, compared with just making a new console with a bigger FPGA when needed.

[veelk55]

I'm with the SD cards on this one, sorry.

Having to make a new cartridge to use a rom from it will defeat the purpose of using the original cartridge that worked with the older systems.

Sounds impractical too. How many cartridges of this type would one need? 1 for each game?... or 1 that can fit all games?

If it can fit all games, it would be the same thing as using SD card.

[Andromeda Stardust]

SD cards vs ROMs are an interesting postulate. On the one hand, SD card keeps hardware costs low but requires many mappers programmed into the FPGA or at least rapidly loadable. Partial reconfiguration may be required, ie and FPGA NES loaded, then a mapper loaded based upon the ROM mapper.

 

Cart ports require less work (mapper hardware required inside cart instead of inside FPGA) but more expense (multiple card slots for multiple systems).

 

I think the Zumba should simply go with the SD slot + expansion slot. Expansions could be an industry standard connector like PCIE (AVS already uses this) connected to a daughterboard with retro cart slots. Expansion modules could be groupings of popular consoles, ie Nintendo module NES / FC / SNES and a Sega module MD / SMS / SG-3000, Atari module 7800 / 5200 / 8-bit, pre-crash volume 1 Coleco / Intelli / Vectrex, pre-crash volume 2 Fairchild / O2 / etc, non-Atari retro computers C64 / O2 / TI-99 / MSX, a SATA port to plug in CDROM drive for 4th gen CD systems (Sega CD / PCe CDROM / etc) a portable expansion module GB / GG / Lynx / Hucard (nowhere else to fit this one)...

 

Multiple console slots per expansion would reduce the number of SKUs and be more economical that individual daughterboards for every system. Only downside is if you just collect for one system, you need to buy an addon with multiple slots...

[StopDrop&Retro]

An Indiegogo campaign for a shitty ARM chip console just launched calling itself the Sigma.

 

Think you might want to change the name, Kevtris? People might confuse Zimba for Sigma. Just my $0.02

[Schizophretard]

An Indiegogo campaign for a shitty ARM chip console just launched calling itself the Sigma.

 

Think you might want to change the name, Kevtris? People might confuse Zimba for Sigma. Just my $0.02

I don't see any similarities between the names RetroEngine Sigma and Zimba 3000. Besides, by the time the Zimba 3000 comes out the RetroEngine Sigma will likely be old news, if the Zimba 3000 turns out to be as good as it seems it will be then there would be very few similarities between the two products, and the Zimba 3000 would be known as the product from the guy that made the first ColecoVision homebrew, worked on the Hi-Def NES, worked on the Analogue Nt mini, was one of the people pushed under the Chameleon bus, etc.

[Flojomojo]

Sigma looks more like Raspberry Pi than Zimba. I suspect it will be forgotten soon after launch, it's completely superfluous. I wouldn't change the name if I were Kevtris, not for this reason, anyway.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Sigma looks more like Raspberry Pi than Zimba. I suspect it will be forgotten soon after launch, it's completely superfluous. I wouldn't change the name if I were Kevtris, not for this reason, anyway.

Agreed. Raspberry Pi has a lot more support as well and there are tons of BYOR (bring your own ROMs) options with minimal configuration. I think MAME was the only emulator that was really a PITA to set up, and that is true for any platform.

[Keatah]

Mame requires a special touch and an understanding of things outside of what's explained in the limited documentation in order to get the most of it. I dare say it's the computer equivalent of an interdisciplinary science experiment. One moment you're doing "this", but you better understand "that". All at the same time.

 

I just gave the ColecoVision branch a good configuring. And while it was pretty good before it's now radiant! Stellar! Blows away any single dedicated emu I've come across so far.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Keatah

[veelk55]

People might also call the Zimba a Zumba... sorry, Kosmic Stardust

 

SD cards vs ROMs are an interesting postulate. On the one hand, SD card keeps hardware costs low but requires many mappers programmed into the FPGA or at least rapidly loadable. Partial reconfiguration may be required, ie and FPGA NES loaded, then a mapper loaded based upon the ROM mapper.

 

Cart ports require less work (mapper hardware required inside cart instead of inside FPGA) but more expense (multiple card slots for multiple systems).

 

I think the Zumba should simply go with the SD slot + expansion slot. Expansions could be an industry standard connector like PCIE (AVS already uses this) connected to a daughterboard with retro cart slots. Expansion modules could be groupings of popular consoles, ie Nintendo module NES / FC / SNES and a Sega module MD / SMS / SG-3000, Atari module 7800 / 5200 / 8-bit, pre-crash volume 1 Coleco / Intelli / Vectrex, pre-crash volume 2 Fairchild / O2 / etc, non-Atari retro computers C64 / O2 / TI-99 / MSX, a SATA port to plug in CDROM drive for 4th gen CD systems (Sega CD / PCe CDROM / etc) a portable expansion module GB / GG / Lynx / Hucard (nowhere else to fit this one)...

 

Multiple console slots per expansion would reduce the number of SKUs and be more economical that individual daughterboards for every system. Only downside is if you just collect for one system, you need to buy an addon with multiple slots...

 

Man, so many retro console things xD
Yet none have gained great reputation.
A friend of mine has a Raspberry Pi, says it's messy.
I'm fine with a cheap emulation box alternative so i can move around with it and not care much if it gets damaged, I hope its easy to use.
They're kinda late though. By the time the Zimba is made, I probably won't care about any other similar device.

[Keatah]

Been around the block with all this material. Keep returning to x86 based emulation. The source code is available for the emus and that's great for modding and teaching myself the ins and outs of how it all comes together.

 

Whatever comes out next, whatever it may be, is gonna haffta be damned good to usurp pc-based emulation and these little mini-consoles that are invading the market.

[Andromeda Stardust]

People might also call the Zimba a Zumba... sorry, Kosmic Stardust

 

LOL, I remember saying that. I blame crappy dancercise Wii games for the mixup...