Jump to content
IGNORED

FPGA Based Videogame System


kevtris

Interest in an FPGA Videogame System  

682 members have voted

  1. 1. I would pay....

  2. 2. I Would Like Support for...

  3. 3. Games Should Run From...

    • SD Card / USB Memory Sticks
    • Original Cartridges
    • Hopes and Dreams
  4. 4. The Video Inteface Should be...


  • Please sign in to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

On 1/21/2023 at 2:10 AM, Atariboy said:

On the SmokeMonster GitHub page? There's no evidence that Kevtris ever paid any attention to the issues page for this or the Super Nt. And all the Sonic CD (And Final Fight CD) complaints posted there appear to date from before the release of the latest firmware for the Mega Sg, with no complaints since then. So that certainly suggests it's fixed. 

 

When this particular combination works fine for other people, I'm not convinced there's a wider issue here. I think it's a localized problem and I suspect Austin's on the right track with his suggestion to try some different bios files out.

And I think that Analogue can't be bothered to fix their stuff. Columbus Circle carts don't work on the Mega Sg, which is something that was perfectly fine until compatibility was broken by a firmware update. Now, several years later, does anyone at Analogue actually want to bother fixing their own mistake, especially seeing as they cancelled production of these things? So much for "100% compatibility with the entire library, including bootlegs and whatever else".

 

Yes, you can use older firmware that these games do work on, but that shouldn't have to be the solution when the thing is advertised as working perfectly with everything. These carts work fine on my not-fake Mega Drives and my Nomad, so there is no reason for them to not work on the Mega Sg. Someone broke it, but they never bothered to fix it for whatever reason. The reason that itself doesn't matter, and I don't really care what it is at all; I just want a thing that actually does what it claims that it does.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree.

 

When they're like 98-99% of the way to fully meeting their marketing promises (outside of the still very incomplete Pocket dock), it's very frustrating as an Analogue customer to not see them take those final few steps to actually fully deliver on all their marketing promises about cycle accuracy, preservation, zero compromises, 100% compatibility, etc.

 

It's why I whine from time to time in this thread. I'm not doing it because I'm anti-Analogue. I'm doing it for the exact opposite reason. I've bought their products and I've seen what they can do. So I know 1st hand just how tantalizing close they are to actually matching all their ambitious promises (again outside of the Pocket which clearly is still a work in progress, albeit moving forward at a very slow pace).

 

So to just see long-standing issues go ignored for years on end, even if they're very minor overall, has become very irritating.

Edited by Atariboy
  • Like 1
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Typically the last percent takes just as much work as the previous 99% - or more. I think to this day nobody has uncovered all secrets of the PPUs in the SNES. The devices are very good (as an example, the SuperNt can run Rendering Ranger unpatched, MiSTer still can't) but 100% has always been an unrealistic goal for a commercial product and talking about 100% in the marketing material was utter nonsense.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That 1% has evaded people for 20years plus now.  Byuu went nuts trying to tear down every piece of the hardware to get it 100% accurate and before even killing himself he still couldn't reconcile getting that thing completely accurate and it bothered the dude I know that much having talked to him in previous years past.  His level of dedication is about where I'd put kevtris with the cores for the NES/FC SNES/SFC stuff with his own stuff and analogue.  There always will just sadly be exceptions if you can't get the original hardware and 100% reproduce it, even if it feels 100% even if every game does on a commercial end work, something COULD pop up.  Looking at those endless treads from kirk in the SNES area about the untapped system potential and what he's legitimately dug up and speculated on, which others have tested to find truth, there are corners of that thing that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest wouldn't make the Supernt or bsnes have a fit if it went there.  SNES has some crazy capabilities, stock, that retail never touched with higher color modes, high res multiple layered scrolling games, and other oddball features I guess deemed over budget/impractical for back in the 90s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of the remaining issues appear to be low hanging fruit that doesn't give modern emulators any issues. For instance the messed up music from the crew relaxation area in SNES Wing Commander isn't a classic problem area, yet the Super Nt fails spectacularly at it.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another fun aspect of a project like this is that when you are at 99% fixing one thing usually breaks another thing - which means that every tiny thing needs a great amount of testing and "x working in some other projects" doesn't tell you much. Even when you measured it and you are sure that a change gets you closer to the behavior of the original system, this can expose other issues.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember a form of that from the mid 90s.  I was on the test squad for SNES96, then SNES 96 w/sound which was the first to properly enough implement it.  You'd get something going, then the audio would take a crap on another game where like the crystal(title) them of FF2 would be like screeching digital cats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, RobDangerous said:

Another fun aspect of a project like this is that when you are at 99% fixing one thing usually breaks another thing - which means that every tiny thing needs a great amount of testing and "x working in some other projects" doesn't tell you much. Even when you measured it and you are sure that a change gets you closer to the behavior of the original system, this can expose other issues.

This is why projects where an entire community can contribute code, testing time, and insights has proven to be infinitely more effective than a small closed off team of people who don't seem to be able to partition their focuses very well or don't have enough people to really focus on fixes and improvements of existing products while also developing new ones, which is why it can feel like like more beneficial work has come out of the open communities (including also SmokeMonster and Open FPGA) in a single month or few months than Analogue itself has done in five years.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, blzmarcel said:

This is why projects where an entire community can contribute code, testing time, and insights has proven to be infinitely more effective than a small closed off team of people who don't seem to be able to partition their focuses very well or don't have enough people to really focus on fixes and improvements of existing products while also developing new ones, which is why it can feel like like more beneficial work has come out of the open communities (including also SmokeMonster and Open FPGA) in a single month or few months than Analogue itself has done in five years.

If that's really the case currently I'm not sure. FPGA being broadly used for old games is still a relatively new thing and Analogue had a good start, is still up there in terms of compatibility comparatively and arguably kickstarted the whole FPGA-craze. And they are involved in that openFPGA-work you mentioned. But long term - yes, pretty sure more open projects will win out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/9/2023 at 4:55 PM, Tanooki said:

Hmmm....does it now?  I have both Wing Commander games but I don't remember ever trying them much on there.  Is there a comparison on YT for it?

No, but assuming that this PC has a microphone port on the rear (letting me route the audio output from my television's headphone jack to my PC to enable a high quality recording),  I intend to put up a comparison eventually on YouTube.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, the messed up bongo drum sound effect is reminiscent of how early SNES emulators from the 1990's often sounded. Not something that has any business in a system promoted as offering perfect cycle accuracy. Especially when said system is FPGA based and able to be updated to resolve such issues.

Edited by Atariboy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with that.  I'm not sure what their problem is, but between that first year the SuperNt Mega Sg were out and now they've come across as just being single minded, loaded with layers of tunnel vision, and just don't seem to want to back their credo as far as the stuff goes.  There hasn't been firmware updates for awhile, and it kind of annoys me, but also surprises me no side project has popped up to do their job for them given the jailbreak community.  Also it concerns me given just how shitty their dock firmware is for the barely serviceable pocket dock.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Has anyone used the Game Gear adapter and or Dock for the Pocket? Im still waiting on those as well as the link cable and the Lynx/NGPC adapters which eventually will be released, hopefully by the end of the year

 

The main reason I bought a Pocket was because the Game Gear and Lynx consoles are too cumbersome for me and I never had any interest in doing the mod crap.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, is Analogue basically done updating the NTs and the SG? Would be awesome to see the Library thing come to those consoles, along with save state functionality, track play time with each game.

 

I know theyre a small team and their sole focus is on the Pocket but I hope/wonder if there is demand for continued support for their older systems. I mean 2 years without a firmware update...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Plenty of folks have used the dock and Game Gear adapter.

 

As for Analogue OS, they confirmed quite sometime ago that it won't be backported to their previous systems. It will be a feature of their future systems like the Duo if it's still in the works, rather than an addition to their previous releases.

 

As for updates, the Nt Mini Noir, Super Nt, and Mega Sg were last updated in February 2021. And the Nt Mini was last updated in December 2021. Never say never, but the elapsed time certainly suggests that holding your breath in anticipation of further bug fixes would be quite unwise.

Edited by Atariboy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Atariboy said:

It will be a feature of their future systems like the Duo if it's still in the works, rather than an addition to their previous releases.

Assuming the Duo is still coming (no reason to think it isn't) I'll be very curious to find out if it will read and support PlayStation One discs. If it does, I would expect that little extra feature will increase sales of the Duo quite a lot.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see why it would play PS1 discs. For starters if that was the intention they'd of announced that it could rather than keep such major news a secret. And if one of their FPGA engineers is able to develop a PS1 core and a non-infringing bios on affordable FPGA technology, why wouldn't Analogue save it for a dedicated PS1 system? Seems safe to say that if the Duo arrives and is one day able to play PS1 games, it will be because it features OpenFPGA and a 3rd party core was developed for it.

 

As for leaving the door open to the Duo being vaporware, it was announced in October 2020. 2021 came and went without them opening up preorders like had been their plan. 2022 comes up and we're told early on that we're going to hear more later that year, but never did. 

 

I assume it's going to still happen. It's still advertised on their product page for instance and their usual October major announcement the past two years didn't include news of a change of course with a different system coming down the pike instead. But when they do very occasionally make a public statement like a few days ago, the Duo is never mentioned. For instance this last time they covered Pocket shipments, gave a time window when the last round of Mega Sg/Super Nt preorders will ship, and stated that Analogue OS is still in active development.

 

So while I still think it's going to become a reality and that their workload and production capacity has simply been gobbled up in advancing the Pocket project with the Duo temporarily sidelined, it hardly would shock people I think if the Duo has quietly been canned.

Edited by Atariboy
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It may be unwise to hope on more older system updates, but it's wrong that they have left a few weird spots.

 

It's more confusing to me why with such a robust jailbreaking community for them none have decided to get to further hacking to improve performance or maybe (long shot) add another feature of some sort.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They've never opened up the Nt Mini, the Mega Sg, the Super Nt, or the Noir to 3rd parties. The Pocket is the first time that one of their systems was unlocked and that happened. Presumably someone could hack their way into their older systems, but Analogue has never released the keys so to speak to make it easier.

 

The first jailbreak and added cores for the original Nt Mini were openly done by Kevtris himself. And most everyone is sure that it was Kevtris that anonymously released the Super Nt and Mega Sg jailbreaks (including the Colecovision core for the latter) a day or two after their public release. And likewise he's believed to be the individual behind the Noir's jailbreak while also porting over all his old Nt Mini cores (while adding an Intellivision core that Kevtris had previously said that he was working on). 

 

No 3rd party was able to do any of this just hours after getting each of these systems in their hands, so we all know it was an inside job either done by Kevtris himself or with the assistance of Kevtris. He's the individual that people were always referring to when they talked about the "Firmware Fairy" in this thread in the past. And now with the Analogue Pocket, our firmware fairy goes under the pseudonym "Spiritualized 1997" instead of releasing software by way of a middleman (Smokemonster in the past).

Edited by Atariboy
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, bikerspade said:

When should we expect to see the next firmware updates (official and/or JB) for Nt Mini, Super Nt, Mega Sg, DAC, and Noir?

Not for a long time. Theyre putting all their eggs in the Pocket basket for now since they know most people just want it for emulation and they dont think anybody still uses those systems you mentioned to play cartridges.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...