FPGA Based Videogame System

[+rdemming]

 

The only you need to do is connect +5V from the USB to Vcc in your cable because there is no +5V out of the D15 connector for the RGB blanking signal (180ohm resistor between +5V and scart pin16). Think B&O must have this signal since you cant force it to the RGB channel manually (i think)

At least I havent found that mode on mine B&O.

 

The only one that can force it to RGB channel by switching to it is mine cheapass noname branding TV, but the RGB is super crisp on it.

 

All the TVs I had from CRT to LCD could "manually" switch to (one of) the SCART inputs. I would find it strange if your B&O has no manual switch option. The remote control I have has an "input select" button depicting a square with an arrow going into it. But B&O is of course all about visual design so it could that that they leave everything out that makes it look complicated

 

Back in the Atari ST days, I used ST->SCART cables where the SCART connector PIN 16 (blanking) was connected to ST pin 12 (V-SYNC) (see this ST SCART cable diagram). I always thought SCART blanking stood for vertical blank signal but it seems nowadays it is used for composite/RGB selection. But maybe connecting the v-sync signal to pin 12 works for the Analogue mini too.

SCART pin 8 was used to make the TV set "auto switch" to the SCART input. For the ST, SCART pin 8 was connected to ST pin 8 (12 volt pull-up).

 

So for SCART compatibility, the Zimba 3000 should have 12V pull-up output on the video port to support auto-switching and 5V output to select composite or RGB mode.

 

Robert

[Schizophretard]

 

Finally CRT people are speaking up for themselves! Let us not be bullied by those Horribly Demented Media Intruders! But to be honest, I am actually willing to pay more, so that both HDMI fans and CRT fans are happy. It's just great to have a choice with FPGAs between enhancement and preservation. As I have already mentioned my favorite output is composite.

 

I'm a fan of both. For an example, If I were playing Yars' Revenge then I would want it to look something like your avatar. But if I were playing one of Kevtris's handheld console cores I may prefer it on a flat panel since handheld consoles weren't equipped with CRT's. Or maybe I would still want to have them on CRT's to mix it up and to experiment to see if they look better on them even though they weren't designed for them. I just look at it on a console by console game by game basis on what looks best to me on each display technology, every A/V input, etc. In other words, none of the options are superior or inferior in all cases with a one size fits all solution but it depends on what is being played and how what is being played looks according to my tastes.

[thebruto1]

Hi

 

was wondering if any kind soul might be able to offer me some advice. I have a European CRT (Grundig Lenaro) that has two Scart inputs at the rear. I have hooked up other consoles like master system, mega drive, french n64 all no probs

 

I purchased the recomended scart cable from retrogamingcables who I have used before never had an issue.

 

I have left default setting CYSNC as advised. tried both NTSC and PAL for tv setting and no matter what I do all I get is a pure white blank screen.

 

I loaded a nes game on my HDTV then changed the plugs over. I can hear the audio but still the same no picture just white.

 

Analog told me to go back to the cable maker who replied to my email saying

 

"...your TV is expecting a 1-3volt signal from SCART pin number 16, as this tells the TV its in RGB mode. Unfortunately the Nt mini doesn't output this signal from the console via the AV socket. Are you able to manually select RGB mode using your remote control? "

now the manual settings on the TV are only RGB OFF. PIN8+16. or PIN16

without the PIN16 which apparently is not in the analog mini RGB wont display on my TV. and RGB off also does not work as the cable is an RGB specific cable so it wont change to another type of picture (for example composite)

Is there anything I can do?? has anyone else had this problem on their CRT???

THanks everyone and thank you to kevtris for all your hard work

[atmn]

 

All the TVs I had from CRT to LCD could "manually" switch to (one of) the SCART inputs. I would find it strange if your B&O has no manual switch option. The remote control I have has an "input select" button depicting a square with an arrow going into it. But B&O is of course all about visual design so it could that that they leave everything out that makes it look complicated

 

Back in the Atari ST days, I used ST->SCART cables where the SCART connector PIN 16 (blanking) was connected to ST pin 12 (V-SYNC) (see this ST SCART cable diagram). I always thought SCART blanking stood for vertical blank signal but it seems nowadays it is used for composite/RGB selection. But maybe connecting the v-sync signal to pin 12 works for the Analogue mini too.

SCART pin 8 was used to make the TV set "auto switch" to the SCART input. For the ST, SCART pin 8 was connected to ST pin 8 (12 volt pull-up).

 

So for SCART compatibility, the Zimba 3000 should have 12V pull-up output on the video port to support auto-switching and 5V output to select composite or RGB mode.

 

Robert

 

I have not find that other than getting between the two AV-channels, and with the blanking signal not there the TV assume its composite.

B&O is "it just works" kind of company so.

The same for my Sony Triniton 28' btw, blanking signal or I'll get composite.

[atmn]

Hi

 

was wondering if any kind soul might be able to offer me some advice. I have a European CRT (Grundig Lenaro) that has two Scart inputs at the rear. I have hooked up other consoles like master system, mega drive, french n64 all no probs

 

I purchased the recomended scart cable from retrogamingcables who I have used before never had an issue.

 

I have left default setting CYSNC as advised. tried both NTSC and PAL for tv setting and no matter what I do all I get is a pure white blank screen.

 

I loaded a nes game on my HDTV then changed the plugs over. I can hear the audio but still the same no picture just white.

 

Analog told me to go back to the cable maker who replied to my email saying

 

"...your TV is expecting a 1-3volt signal from SCART pin number 16, as this tells the TV its in RGB mode. Unfortunately the Nt mini doesn't output this signal from the console via the AV socket. Are you able to manually select RGB mode using your remote control? "

now the manual settings on the TV are only RGB OFF. PIN8+16. or PIN16

without the PIN16 which apparently is not in the analog mini RGB wont display on my TV. and RGB off also does not work as the cable is an RGB specific cable so it wont change to another type of picture (for example composite)

Is there anything I can do?? has anyone else had this problem on their CRT???

THanks everyone and thank you to kevtris for all your hard work

Take +5V from the USB connect it o pin 16 with a 180ohm resistor in between. That would do it.

Im very intrested in if you get a good RGB signal. Im in the same situation as you..

[thebruto1]

mmm thank you for your reply atmn... I thought that might be the case from your earlier posts .. honestly I am absolutely horrible with messing around with hardware I wouldn't feel comfortable opening mine up to do something like that give the $$$

 

Ive sent analog another email - its a shame that this couldnt have been worked out while they were building it. considering the option of both outputs is one of the main selling points

 

for $500usd and $30 for the cable youd expect just to be able to plug it in.

[atmn]

mmm thank you for your reply atmn... I thought that might be the case from your earlier posts .. honestly I am absolutely horrible with messing around with hardware I wouldn't feel comfortable opening mine up to do something like that give the $$$

 

Ive sent analog another email - its a shame that this couldnt have been worked out while they were building it. considering the option of both outputs is one of the main selling points

 

for $500usd and $30 for the cable youd expect just to be able to plug it in.

 

I agree. Analogue and digital output was actually my main reason for buying it. (other than the JB) I did not expect all theese issues.

Dont need to touch the console tho, just the cable.

 

I'm changing the caps voltage rating from 6.3V to 16V, doubt it will do anyting in favour..

Edited March 14, 2017 by atmn

[thebruto1]

okay atmn - thanks!!.. In that case I might go to an electronics parts store tomorrow and try to purchase the parts and ask them for some advice

 

will let you know if I have any success

 

it goes to show you how much I know on the subject. I thought your were talking about inside of the console

[gulps]

 

All the TVs I had from CRT to LCD could "manually" switch to (one of) the SCART inputs. I would find it strange if your B&O has no manual switch option. The remote control I have has an "input select" button depicting a square with an arrow going into it. But B&O is of course all about visual design so it could that that they leave everything out that makes it look complicated

 

Back in the Atari ST days, I used ST->SCART cables where the SCART connector PIN 16 (blanking) was connected to ST pin 12 (V-SYNC) (see this ST SCART cable diagram). I always thought SCART blanking stood for vertical blank signal but it seems nowadays it is used for composite/RGB selection. But maybe connecting the v-sync signal to pin 12 works for the Analogue mini too.

SCART pin 8 was used to make the TV set "auto switch" to the SCART input. For the ST, SCART pin 8 was connected to ST pin 8 (12 volt pull-up).

 

So for SCART compatibility, the Zimba 3000 should have 12V pull-up output on the video port to support auto-switching and 5V output to select composite or RGB mode.

 

Robert

 

 

Woah!! This is a great idea!

The V-SYNC Pin14 at the VGA part is negative polarity digital clock. This means that is feeding 5v (as TTL signal) every time, and 0v (only few miliseconds) to clock the V-SYNC.

Maybe a capacitor isn't needed to use the V-SYNC Pin14 to maintain the 5v and feed the blanking RGB signal without issues at EuroSCART-Pin16 as your schematic from the Atari ST described.

Maybe too the CRT-TV can handle 5V at EuroSCART-Pin16 to activate the RGB and don't needed the resistor to downgrade the 5v to 1v/3v. But is recommended to put.

Test the VGA Pin14 with a multimeter

Edited March 14, 2017 by gulps

[atmn]

okay atmn - thanks!!.. In that case I might go to an electronics parts store tomorrow and try to purchase the parts and ask them for some advice

 

will let you know if I have any success

 

it goes to show you how much I know on the subject. I thought your were talking about inside of the console

 

 

I just took an old mouse cable I had, and the 180ohm resistor was inside the scart, if you brought it from retrogamingcables.

5Volt from USB(USB PIN 1) to Vcc in the scart part. The 180ohm resistor is already soldered in between.

 

1.4USD for the s-vid composite from monoprice. And 58-70USD for shipping to Sweden.

That is a cable I could test at least on my TV.

Edited March 14, 2017 by atmn

[funkwad]

your version of commando has a bad header. There's no pokey sound for this reason. (see the readme if you are handy with a hex editor, since I address this game specifically)

Ahh, thought Commando had Pokey...Thanks! I have a hexeditor, but I'm not terribly handy with it...couldn't find "0036h" anywhere within the rom, but total noob at the hex stuff TBH. any additional hints appreciated

Edited March 14, 2017 by funkwad

[Keatah]

"That is the Analogue Gaming TV Classic. Analogue got a tube from a CRT, put it in that custom wooden case they designed, inside it runs on an FPGA, and on the back it has all the A/V inputs you could ever need."

 

I don't see any technical roadblocks for this sort of circuit.

 

Each circuit block of the TV set as well as the CRT connector, HV driver, deflection control, cathode driver, gun driver, and yoke magnetics can be made programmable. Essentially an A/D converter except operating higher current and higher voltage than what's in a typically seen in a videogame console. And as an added touch, a relay would disengage to normally-closed position to discharge the picture tube through a resistor - for fun and safety.

 

Each block could also be on a card for upgrades or repairs. And of course X-Y vector or standard raster would be available.

 

This sort of reminds me of the external CRT driver boards for MAME and Vectrex that would convert a standard VGA signal to X-Y monitors. Gosh it's been a while since I saw those kits.

 

---

 

I wonder what will come of age first, if any:

 

A full soft-CRT for running on your GPU.

or

A new breed of hardware for driving CRT tubes?

[Keatah]

You should have read the whole post. Instead you said something incredibly dumb. I never said to "fill in" the scanlines. Just that if you think covering up half the image makes it look better and that is acceptable you might as well just cover up the entire image by that logic because it will eliminate all visual issues... or you could just scale it correctly.

 

Scanlines. Ughh.. Some folks set their rigs (whatever they may be) to high contrast and 50%. It looks so ugly. To simulate scanlines right, you need to look at the adjacent lines above and below the "black line" and see how the color and light spills over, the phosphor decay rate, the scintillation on the glass and how much it distorts and scatters the light. And much more. Basically a sort of ray-tracing from each phosphor dot. But a ray-trace that is short and simple and highly predictable in the scheme of things.

 

Not a big deal for Pascal or Kepler architectures to compute this in real-time.

 

As a bit of trivia, the bloom in Asteroids is a function of how thick the CRT glass is, how bright the beam is, and how reflective the phospohors are to incident light.

[gulps]

 

 

 

Woah!! This is a great idea!

The V-SYNC Pin14 at the VGA part is negative polarity digital clock. This means that is feeding 5v (as TTL signal) every time, and 0v (only few miliseconds) to clock the V-SYNC.

Maybe a capacitor isn't needed to use the V-SYNC Pin14 to maintain the 5v and feed the blanking RGB signal without issues at EuroSCART-Pin16 as your schematic from the Atari ST described.

Maybe too the CRT-TV can handle 5V at EuroSCART-Pin16 to activate the RGB and don't needed the resistor to downgrade the 5v to 1v/3v. But is recommended to put.

Test the VGA Pin14 with a multimeter

 

 

 

Searching the net for the Atari ST SCART cable that sugested rdemming I found another schematic to use the VGA V-SYNC (Pin14) for the RGB activation "blanking" (EuroSCART-Pin16) at the CRT-TV:

 

 

The Ultimate Atari SCART Cable V 1.1 (2016)

http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/downloads/Atari_SCART_cable_V1.1.png

 

 

 

Atari Forum: Bouncing screen on STF with RGB Scart

http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=28665#p305057

 

 

 

This schematic uses a fast switching diode (1N914) and capacitor (10uF) without the resitor.

 

 

Maybe adding the resistor would be a good choice (to downgrade 5v TTL to 1v/3v).

 

 

 

Test first the output with a multimeter.

[Sneakyturtleegg]

I thought Commando had POKEY? Is the Wiki wrong? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POKEY

[NE146]

Maybe I'm wrong but I read it as he's not getting the POKEY sound because his ROM has a bad header.

 

On another note, Friggin NT Mini was delayed to come today. Taking forever to get this thing.

[Tusecsy]

You should have read the whole post. Instead you said something incredibly dumb. I never said to "fill in" the scanlines. Just that if you think covering up half the image makes it look better and that is acceptable you might as well just cover up the entire image by that logic because it will eliminate all visual issues... or you could just scale it correctly.

 

Filling in is exactly what happens when you take a 240p signal and double it. The fact is the "full image" you describe as being "filled in", never existed in the first place... Also nice little slippery slope at the end there, are you 15?

Edited March 14, 2017 by Tusecsy

[atmn]

Follow up! Analogue got back to me and said they couldn't exactly reproduce some of the issues I had. For instance, various Sony PVMs they had all displayed the picture fine. However, RGB was still showing the wrong colors when used with the framemeister and other devices. Also every other analog video output seemed to have the wrong color scheme, like what I saw.

 

I don't know why some of their results differed from mine, maybe I made some kind of mistake, but I've been told they're taking a deeper look into the problem and have shipped out a replacement for the meantime!

 

So maybe it wasn't pin 1? Red was missing for me on every device I tried as well as R-Y and composite.. Ah well, I'm just glad it's being addressed and I hope anyone else with the issues gets help from support as well

 

Any updates?

 

Since they sent you a replacement they must have found something that was not right..?

 

Seems OK when using PVMs but wrong colors when using framemeister and other device. Other devices is like Euroscart TVs with RGB.

 

What is the thing that makes colors off on some devices and others not. Make no sense..

[Wolf_]

 

Filling in is exactly what happens when you take a 240p signal and double it. The fact is the "full image" you describe as being "filled in", never existed in the first place... Also nice little slippery slope at the end there, are you 15?

You still don't understand what I'm talking about. I never said to just double a 240p signal. I suggest you do your own research on the subject and stop talking down to me and expecting me to explain everything for you. Phonedork has spoken about it, and Retrorgb and Mylifeingaming have videos on it.

 

It is possible to have an accurate looking 480i image source in 4k or 1080p. Keeping crts around because covering up half the image covers up half the garbage you don't want to look at IS RETARDED. As stated you might as well cover up the entire image and be happy that you now have 0 visual issues.

 

The ONLY reason (other than nostalgia) to keep crts around is for the 0 latency and LinusTechTips already showed a lcd screen with crt like response times so I'm betting those will be out and widely available in the next few months/years.

 

Crts are bulky, almost all of them have scanlines that cover up half the image, the tubes are poison, no one knows how to work on them anymore, they can't produce high end progressive scan resolutions, they don't accurately reproduce colors by design, and they are only going to get rarer and die faster as time goes on.

 

Making more crts is not the answer. Improving lcd technology has always been the answer and everyone but a few nostalgic retrogamers have long since realized this.

[Tusecsy]

You still don't understand what I'm talking about. I never said to just double a 240p signal. I suggest you do your own research on the subject and stop talking down to me and expecting me to explain everything for you. Phonedork has spoken about it, and Retrorgb and Mylifeingaming have videos on it.

 

It is possible to have an accurate looking 480i image source in 4k or 1080p. Keeping crts around because covering up half the image covers up half the garbage you don't want to look at IS RETARDED. As stated you might as well cover up the entire image and be happy that you now have 0 visual issues.

 

The ONLY reason (other than nostalgia) to keep crts around is for the 0 latency and LinusTechTips already showed a lcd screen with crt like response times so I'm betting those will be out and widely available in the next few months/years.

 

Crts are bulky, almost all of them have scanlines that cover up half the image, the tubes are poison, no one knows how to work on them anymore, they can't produce high end progressive scan resolutions, they don't accurately reproduce colors by design, and they are only going to get rarer and die faster as time goes on.

 

Making more crts is not the answer. Improving lcd technology has always been the answer and everyone but a few nostalgic retrogamers have long since realized this.

 

That's a whole lot of verbal diarrhea that's for sure. Scanlines don't "cover up" anything on a 240p signal, they are necessary to fill in the 480 lines of resolution on a CRT exactly as the developers intended. I think you're confusing 480p and 240p, now run along little kiddie you aren't wanted here (a thread about FPGA).

Edited March 14, 2017 by Tusecsy

[Gentlegamer]

Just play new games, brah.

[Wolf_]

 

That's a whole lot of verbal diarrhea that's for sure. Scanlines don't "cover up" anything on a 240p signal, they are necessary to fill in the 480 lines of resolution on a CRT exactly as the developers intended. I think you're confusing 480p and 240p, now run along little kiddie you aren't wanted here (a thread about FPGA).

You are too dumb to waste my time explaining things further to. I suggest you do you own research and stop insulting others without a clue what they are talking about. It makes you look extremely dumb.

[Sneakyturtleegg]

Maybe I'm wrong but I read it as he's not getting the POKEY sound because his ROM has a bad header.

 

On another note, Friggin NT Mini was delayed to come today. Taking forever to get this thing.

I'm in upstate NY. The snowy weather delayed mine too!

[DNA128k]

You are too dumb to waste my time explaining things further to. I suggest you do you own research and stop insulting others without a clue what they are talking about. It makes you look extremely dumb.

For the record though, scanlines are the absence of image, they aren't 'covering' anything. They're simply the gaps produced when a 240p image is blown up on a standard definition CRT; that's how it's progressive scan in the first place and devoid of flicker. Edited March 14, 2017 by DNA128k

[rezb1t]

 

Any updates?

 

Since they sent you a replacement they must have found something that was not right..?

 

Seems OK when using PVMs but wrong colors when using framemeister and other device. Other devices is like Euroscart TVs with RGB.

 

What is the thing that makes colors off on some devices and others not. Make no sense..

They said it displayed wrong colors with every video type except RGB with PVMs only, in every other case there was an issue. Haven't heard anything else yet