Tkat5200 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Hey all So I collect the old school stuff...the Jaguar however...i'm a bit sheepish on. I LOVE Atari...let me start by saying that. even when the shithead Trammel family took it over I had high hopes. but the jag....to me its a total piece of shit. The graphics are horrible there is so much pixelation and bad aliasing I just can't get into it. Watching the choppy frame rates also kills me. is this system really collector worthy? and if so...WHY? besides the fact that it was a pretty limited run...why is this crap system so wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MattelAquarius Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Unfortunately, specific terms of the JTS reverse merger, and the District court decision: Hasbro vs Scatologic, actually prohibit "the collection/concentration/aggregation or general gathering of Atari Jaguar hardware and software (henceforth referred to as 'Jag Merch '), under penalty of Federal Racketeering Penal code 134, sub-paragraph 6." So, bottom line, is that Jaguar collecting, for all intents and purposes has been forced "underground." That's why the prices seem to be out of kilter with the pixelation and bad aliasing, that you pointed out. Of course, this all started with the flood of liability lawsuits from consumer injuries caused by the choppy frame rates. Sadly, this won't change until there can be a court appeal, or Congress intervenes. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tkat5200 Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 WOOOOOW I did not know this. well that makes sense ...sorta. so wait... Scatologic (i like how SCAT which is slang in some corners for SHIT) is involved in something this heinous and for the jag) and Hasbro made it so you can't collect any of this? so if you have a jag and its games at home now...you are technically breaking the law? and what injuries from choppy frame rate...inquiring minds wanna know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isgoed Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Back in the day I ordered a copy of Supercross 3D for the Atari Jaguar. After playing for about ten minutes I noticed that one of my fingers went "out of reach". My doctor told me that the injury was from the framerate, so I called Atari and they gave me $10,- 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tkat5200 Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 wait...what? what do you mean "out of reach" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MattelAquarius Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I think that was just a translation error. Dislocated fingers were another fairly common problem that plagued the Atari Jaguar during its initial run. The controllers were officially banned in some countries, which practically killed Atari's expansion plans. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isgoed Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 English is not my native language, sorry. But yes MattelAquarius, that's what I meant 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) Yeah, I seem to remember that, after a period of testing in some countries (read: esp. Scandinavia) the Jaguar was not legally allowed to be released under penalty of Federal Child Abuse Recognition Services Quadrant Penal code 129, sub-paragraph 3, section 2b. Definitely rings a bell. It's all really vague in my own mind, but the framerate and distinct lack of decent anti-aliasing in-hardware vs poor texture mapping capabilities and vivid use of colour via vector and gourad methods were potentially seen to cause serious injury to the developing eye's (in particular, the retina) of children under and up to the age of 18. Rayman, in particular, had to be held back in terms of production/release by UbiSoft directly, as a bug in the Jaguars architecture caused the game's graphics to be output at twice the pixel resolution of the PS1 & SEGA Saturn combined, leading to nausea, migraines and vomiting in under 18's. Typical Atari/Jaguar related fiasco I'm afraid. Banned outright in Scandinavian continents for this reason and had to be sold, behind closed cabinets (i.e. not on physical show) in Germany, France, Italy and Spain, in very limited quantities to adults of 18 or over (21 or over in Germany). All these factors lend heavily to the collectability and stigma surrounding the console. Hasbro have shouldered much of the blame, along with SEGA's failure to meet license obligations, however, Scatologic have since been deemed the major detractors in this whole debacle. All this really means, basically, is that you're absolutely right in everything that your saying Tkat5200 re: concerns over the Jaguar's collectability vs the product itself. Edited September 27, 2015 by NeoGeoNinja 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MattelAquarius Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 It's really sad what happened to those Dutch children who thought they were "lucky" to be in the Jaguar Rayman playtester group. Atari tried to blame Rayman's delay on collusion between Sony and UbiSoft at the time, saying that the delay of Jaguar Rayman was an attempt to give the Playstation a better chance to get a foothold on the market, before Jaguar Rayman had a chance to wow the crowds. Meanwhile, Atari's lawyers in Europe were trying to make the incident quickly go away while the game could be quietly "fixed" behind closed doors. Programmers burned the midnight oil for months, just to tone down the Jaguar Rayman visuals. Ended up having to remove 4 levels of parallax scrolling and the entire red-book audio track, along with cutting the color palette down to 16-bit depth, from Jaguar's native 64-bit. Sometimes, it really seemed like Atari and their Jaguar just couldn't catch a break. The market just wasn't ready for the Jaguar, it seems. Bad timing, along with some reckless/dangerous engineering decisions really did a number. The dislocated fingers caused by the unwieldy controller and choppy frame rate was the proverbial nail in the coffin. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) Just for the record, the Jaguar is legal in some states like Washington, Colorado and a few others despite being illegal to possess or use at the federal level. I am a liberATARIan though, so I believe consenting adults should be able to use it in the privacy of their own homes. Therefore I ignore the federal law. I feel the criminalization is itself criminal and unconstitutional. Edited September 27, 2015 by Gunstar 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacey Invader Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 This thread is bringing back so many memories. I vividly recall fhe dislocated fingers, but I'd hide them and keep playing. I was a minor at the time and knew my mother would force me to give up the jag and join the class action law suit. After two dislocate fingers and a thumb she finally caught on and threw out the jaggy. I loved it, but you have to understand her back in those days we didn't know about aliasing or pixelation. We just loved "attack of the mutant penguins. " Even after the class action suit (isgoed, I got $10 too! I thought that was limited to the us. Small world after all), I discovered jaguar "speakeasies" in the back rooms and basements of funcoland locations, where we'd play and feel mighty rebellious. Even to this day I can't quit the jag, but the secret to not dislocating fingers had to do with never, ever touching the numeric keypad. I still say atari would be goig strong to this day is they didn't need to send out $10 to all us kids as reimbursement for dislocated digits. Tough marketing lesson. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 It's really sad what happened to those Dutch children who thought they were "lucky" to be in the Jaguar Rayman playtester group. Atari tried to blame Rayman's delay on collusion between Sony and UbiSoft at the time, saying that the delay of Jaguar Rayman was an attempt to give the Playstation a better chance to get a foothold on the market, before Jaguar Rayman had a chance to wow the crowds. Meanwhile, Atari's lawyers in Europe were trying to make the incident quickly go away while the game could be quietly "fixed" behind closed doors. Programmers burned the midnight oil for months, just to tone down the Jaguar Rayman visuals. Ended up having to remove 4 levels of parallax scrolling and the entire red-book audio track, along with cutting the color palette down to 16-bit depth, from Jaguar's native 64-bit. Sometimes, it really seemed like Atari and their Jaguar just couldn't catch a break. The market just wasn't ready for the Jaguar, it seems. Bad timing, along with some reckless/dangerous engineering decisions really did a number. The dislocated fingers caused by the unwieldy controller and choppy frame rate was the proverbial nail in the coffin. Honestly, for those of us who got Atari 5200s for Christmas way back when, and had to return the systems because the controllers didn't work... the dislocated fingers was a sad / sorry reminder of the past. I was much older, and I got out with just a few sprained fingers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtarinDave Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Interesting discussion... Yes, I have a Jaguar for collector's purposes, but I will say that I play many games on the Jag, specifically Doom, Iron Soldier, and Zool 2. But of course, that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovalbugmann Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Ha!, WTF!? this seems like a 'lol' joke thread to me! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Best thread in months. Ha!, WTF!? this seems like a 'lol' joke thread to me! Atari Jaguar - Serious Business. You're not supposed to laugh. Enjoying yourself is also frowned upon. Keep in line. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Saturn Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Ha, I've been sending this link to a lot of people. Epic thread 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn Kayden Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Hey all So I collect the old school stuff...the Jaguar however...i'm a bit sheepish on. I LOVE Atari...let me start by saying that. even when the shithead Trammel family took it over I had high hopes. but the jag....to me its a total piece of shit. The graphics are horrible there is so much pixelation and bad aliasing I just can't get into it. Watching the choppy frame rates also kills me. is this system really collector worthy? and if so...WHY? besides the fact that it was a pretty limited run...why is this crap system so wanted. A lot of famous people and "things" aren't truly appreciated, until they are dead. The Jaguar was given mostly unfair treatment by the press during its life. That was 1993 to about 1996. Atari attempted to kill the Jaguar in 1996, but there were too many hardcore fans of the system. It nearly died, but games just kept trickling out for it. Then, the Jaguar roared back to life when the rights to the system were given to the public. This meant anyone could do anything with a Jaguar legally. That happened in the late 90's, early 2000's. The Jaguar has always been a bit of a cult classic system. But then, toward the late 2000's, YouTube starting becoming extremely popular, and lots of people were doing Jaguar videos. In particular, the Angry Video Game Nerd did some Jaguar videos, which now have millions of views worldwide. The popularity and values of Jaguar stuff has gradually gone up in the last 5 or so years. People are curious about the system and its games. There are less than 150 Jaguar games, so that makes it a fun system to collect for. A complete collection is possible with some patience and a few years of hunting. But, values are quite high now... There are many bad games on the Jaguar, but there are also many incredibly great games on the Jaguar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariTexas Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Hopefully the courts don't change anything I want to continue to sell Jaguars out of the trunk of my car 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 A lot of famous people and "things" aren't truly appreciated, until they are dead. The Jaguar was given mostly unfair treatment by the press during its life. That was 1993 to about 1996. Atari attempted to kill the Jaguar in 1996, but there were too many hardcore fans of the system. It nearly died, but games just kept trickling out for it. Then, the Jaguar roared back to life when the rights to the system were given to the public. This meant anyone could do anything with a Jaguar legally. That happened in the late 90's, early 2000's. The Jaguar has always been a bit of a cult classic system. Damn, I can't tell if you're being serious or trolling. If it's the former, I'm scared for you. If it's the latter, well done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 There are less than 150 Jaguar games, so that makes it a fun system to collect for. A complete collection is possible with some patience and a few years of hunting. But, values are quite high now... I actually heard that there was less than 300 games for the Jaguar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn Kayden Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I actually heard that there was less than 300 games for the Jaguar. Don't you mean 450? Or was it 600? 666? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MattelAquarius Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Damn, all those unreleased games that were killed off and buried by the Atari lawyers to ward off further lawsuits. We may never know the true number of Jaguar games that were made. I remember the letter writing campaign to Atari and Congress to let the games be released, but all we ever got were handshakes and empty promises. Worthless politicians. You're right, I never cared about the loss of sensation in my fingers or the choppy framerate induced vertigo one damn bit. "Just let me Jag!", I shouted defiantly, when they came to confiscate all my "Jag Merch". That's what the agents called it, when they pounded on our door at 10pm on a weeknight. I was scared out of my mind, and I kept hoping they wouldn't find my Jaguar Rayman that I so cleverly stuffed inside my pillow case. They took it; they took it all, and with it, my hopes and dreams. Sure, you can mock the aliasing and the pixelation now, for sure, big laugh. But let me tell you something, it was NO joke to a whole generation of gamers who risked digit paralysis and punishment for playing the games we loved. What a weird f-ing time. What a wild ride. Shit, I can't believe the memories and pain this thread has dredged up. I'll tell you what, though, I WILL continue to concentrate and generally gather more "Jag Merch". Oh yeah, I'm older and wiser now. From my cold dead hands, mother f*cKer$! edited for clarity and syntax 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtarinDave Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I actually heard that there was less than 300 games for the Jaguar. Weren't there only 67 games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I believe this is on topic: Back in springtime of 1994 my friend was in high-school (in Sweden, Scandinavia) and Atari Jaguar sent a bus to their school ground and people were able to enter the bus from the back, and in it there was a Jaguar kiosk running Trevor McFur. My friend played it, liked it being a cart console and the (neo-geo-like) bulky control pad, saying to the young kids running this campaign with lots of fume energy, that he wanted this Jaguar. But he was confused when they said that there was only two games on it at that point. Kind of a weird way to get the hype going, going to schools like that. Have you heard of this before...? Any other Scandinavians around here that got exposed to this Jaguar campaign?My friend told me about it several time through the years, why, I don't know. Status: he never got it. I did in 2015.... Well, there you have it! Have a nice day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 The last I remember seeing anything like that in the UK was probably 3 or 4 years earlier. The "whistle stop tour" was a train that chugged its way around the UK and had carriages full of computers and also (IIRC) third parties showing off their software and hardware. The only Jaguar stuff I half remember is the launch day Tower Records thing, and that's so fuzzy it might even have been a dream (RetroLand!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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