Would you back a second RVGS crowdfunding campaign?

[Algus]

If he answers to all of my complaints about the original campaign then I absolutely would consider crowdfunding the RVGS

 

1. Have a clear vision

2. Have a working prototype (with games!)

3. Have a realistic crowdfunding goal (I'm not funding your entire organization and paying a year salary to you)

 

He still has to sell it to me (why would I buy this over Kevtris's console?) but I am certainly interested in the concept of a new cartridge-based console.

[roland p]

In my opinion there are far better ways to spend your money and far more deserving projects to back.

I just backed Shenmue 3 and at this moment, Kevtris' FPGA system and the DragonBox Pyra are high on my list.

[dj_convoy]

I doubt it. I backed RETRO twice out of some misguided hope it was going to develop into a good magazine; that never happened. I've talked to Mike once or twice... he struck me as a nice guy, so I kept hanging on, I suppose.

 

I knew that the intention for Mike and co. to build a new system was around... I didn't know that the campaign had officially started until I read about the Kevtris debacle over at Sega 16.

 

When I found out the emphasis was on exclusive colors and low serial numbers and not on crazy things like working prototypes and quality launch titles... I was pretty surprised and pretty disappointed. When Mike started acting... let's be nice and say less than professionally, I was angered. When I listened to the various interviews and heard the ridiculous name dropping and used car salesman shilling, I lost pretty much all respect for Mike and any hope that this console could be a viable project.

 

I don't even know what they would have to do to win me over as a backer. I don't think that's possible. If somehow, a console makes it to retail (!) and is favorably reviewed by a bunch of people? Maybe.

 

Frankly, there's not much point in devoting too much brain juice to this whole thing; I think that the damage was already done; an irreparable amount.

 

If Kevtris decides to launch a crowd funding platform, I may well check that out, so that's something, I guess.

[bretthorror]

And your device/game is bricked/lost when the cloud goes offline.

I have thought of this a lot. Would the PS2 era be the last anyone could really collect? How many PS3/360+ games are really gonna run in 5 years? You won't be able to play your PvP and so many games now have online features worked right into the game. If I buy x title on 360 in a decade, pop it in and it requires an update, will it even play? I love Super Mario Maker. How long will servers keep that game alive, since it is literally only online levels?

 

I have digital PS3 games that don't work on PS4 and they sure as hell aren't giving me a free upgrade of a digital game for PS4. My 360 red ringed and I lost games because the Xbox store no longer had them available for download. So as outdated as the article posted in this thread is also shows how gaming today is so not thinking about the future beyond the money it can get out of consumers the first six months. This current system is as closed minded as the VGS.

 

I'm beginning to think the only way to go at this point is Steam so you always have the file.

[Keatah]

Problem is that people don't realize and understand that digital downloads are only temporary. Sometimes they do a few years later, after having spent hundreds of dollars. And by then the industry has already taken your money in a most efficient manner. Apple even said that.

 

And then they just recruit new buyers and gamers. It's cheaper to recruit new flunkies than it is to keep the older and experienced and seasoned gamers around. Our demands are too great. Apple and Microsoft said that too.

 

Back in the 70's and 80's video gaming was new. And people pursued it with a different passion. Today it's all a cash grab.

[Pixelboy]

Problem is that people don't realize and understand that digital downloads are only temporary. Sometimes they do a few years later, after having spent hundreds of dollars. And by then the industry has already taken your money in a most efficient manner. Apple even said that.

 

And then they just recruit new buyers and gamers. It's cheaper to recruit new flunkies than it is to keep the older and experienced and seasoned gamers around. Our demands are too great. Apple and Microsoft said that too.

 

Back in the 70's and 80's video gaming was new. And people pursued it with a different passion. Today it's all a cash grab.

By "people", you mean kids and teenagers. Our parents couldn't be bothered with video games. And even back then, it was all cash grabbing as well, with all the crap games being released on cartridge alongside the more well-known gems.

 

Anyway, they can grab my cash if they give me what I want. For instance, I'd like Capcom to release Mega Man 9 and Mega Man 10 on discs (or perhaps carts? ) so that I can play them without worrying about the games becoming unavailable for download. I can say the same for other games that I find interesting, like Shadow Complex and Fez.

 

How many download-only games could enjoy a second life on discs if they just bothered to manufacture said discs? They could cut out some (or even all) of the online features if they wanted, I probaby wouldn't miss them anyhow, I would just like to play the games. To me, that's the real angle to exploit where a new cartridge-driven console is concerned: Bring back all the games that were originally offered only on XBLA or the PlayStation Network. Heck, for these kinds of modern games, don't do it with carts, use discs instead to have sufficient space to contain the full game.

[Keatah]

Yes typically the mid-30's and under crowd.

 

I think too many corporations and publishers are worried about physical releases because then they lose control of distribution. A big driving force in digital goods is having the ability to take away the stuff and replace it with other content you need to buy, again, and again.. IDK..

 

ADDED: I don't think the early games of Intellivision and Atari VCS were cash grabs. But most certainly a lot of 3rd party games were. The "me too" mentality. You know?

Edited October 2, 2015 by Keatah

[Mord]

I have thought of this a lot. Would the PS2 era be the last anyone could really collect? How many PS3/360+ games are really gonna run in 5 years?

 

The first few years of the PS3/360 generation (PS3 in particular I find) didn't depend on DLC/multipayer etc the way it's integrated at the very heart nowadays. So the first wave or two of PS3 games in particular will still be collectible.

 

It'll also depend on what kinds of games you play. If you aren't into the multiplayer FPS scene, then there's going to be quite a few more games that are collectable, although you'd still have to consider missing bug patches and determine how much of the game was ripped out for DLC. JRPGs in particular are insane with the DLC.

[Jess Ragan]

Holy crap, no! I'm not paying $200 for a system that probably won't be as powerful as the ten year old Xbox 360. It was a stretch to pay $30 for the Playstation TV.

[bretthorror]

The first few years of the PS3/360 generation (PS3 in particular I find) didn't depend on DLC/multipayer etc the way it's integrated at the very heart nowadays. So the first wave or two of PS3 games in particular will still be collectible.

 

It'll also depend on what kinds of games you play. If you aren't into the multiplayer FPS scene, then there's going to be quite a few more games that are collectable, although you'd still have to consider missing bug patches and determine how much of the game was ripped out for DLC. JRPGs in particular are insane with the DLC.

What I wonder is what happens when I put in, say, Gears of War in 10 years and it required an update that I never downloaded. Will that make the regular game unplayable since the server that hosts the update won't exist anymore? I suppose if no server exists there would be nothing for your console to check. Either way, I have about 150 PS3/360 games, so I worry about that.

[Keatah]

Maybe in 10 years they'll have a server on a stick that contains the complete library of games. We already have +128GB SD cards today..

[Mord]

What I wonder is what happens when I put in, say, Gears of War in 10 years and it required an update that I never downloaded. Will that make the regular game unplayable since the server that hosts the update won't exist anymore? I suppose if no server exists there would be nothing for your console to check. Either way, I have about 150 PS3/360 games, so I worry about that.

 

I'm sure there will be issues like that, which is why it's probably a good idea to keep a track record of any game that's released with game-breaking bugs on the disc. Those are the games that will truly be uncollectible - except as coasters. These are the kinds of things I use to keep telling people are important to consider, although I'd always get the predictable backlash.

 

It's things like this that kept me from bothering with buying nearly as many games on the PS3/360 compared to the previous generation - where my PS2 collection dwarfs the PS3/360 & Wii grouped together. Although I don't have too many fears about the Wii itself.

[leods]

What I wonder is what happens when I put in, say, Gears of War in 10 years and it required an update that I never downloaded. Will that make the regular game unplayable since the server that hosts the update won't exist anymore? I suppose if no server exists there would be nothing for your console to check. Either way, I have about 150 PS3/360 games, so I worry about that.

One of the first games I ever heard about that has huge Problems without patching is Skyrim on PS3. You can "fix" it by having an SSD in the System. You shouldn't even Play Skyrim on the PS3 though, cause it Looks so bad... And the game is garbage anyway.

 

Most PS3/xbox360 games don't really Need patches or updates. But it would be nice to have a list showing what games Need a patch, what games have tons of DLC. Allways online is described in the box.

[Grimboj]

They did some things that make it more difficult for me to trust them.

 

Firstly - *that* prototype video.

 

Secondly - I have a problem with their campaign funding structure. They have allocated themselves US$240,000 for wages and stated that the product will reach the market in Q4 2016. 12 months wages of that magnitude for 3 people running a startup that hasn't yet produced a product is not something I am OK with.

 

They have also allocated $80,000 for a place for a "small office and lab", presumably that is just a place for the 3 of them to work on the project? Again that is a huge sum of money for rent for a startup in my opinion .... yet they have only allocated $40,000 for advertising a new games console!?

 

The above is a distribution of their profit on the backer consoles, described as 1/3 of the funding, so they have a 33% gross margin on the first run? I would say 25% is a more typical gross margin for any company.

 

If they come back with a working dev prototype that isn't pretty but can be verified by other independant people in the industry and they completely restructure their campaign funding then I'm a maybe.

[StarPath]

They should go all the way back to square one and forget everything that was said or promised. If they want to still sell the console on physical media how about dropping the jaguar carts and move on to something that's never been done before. I think a great idea (tell me if this is too gimmicky) would be to integrate flash memory into plastic cards and sell them cheap enough to start a trading community. Something to capitalize on the gen y trading card nostalgia.. Think about it, you've got the baseball card and bubble gum crowd, the garbage pail crowd, the magic crowd and the pokemon crowd. That's a lot of potential nostalgia-based sponduli. Best part is you could flash updates to them or even sell blanks, along with printable labels to write your digitally purchased games to.

 

That brings me to the internet. Have built in wi-fi capability and sell the console on the idea of it doubling as a media streaming device. I think this is one of the only things that floated ouya sales at all. Plus leaderboards and potential online multiplayer bring the console's potential of success up significantly.

 

Keep the idea of being retro-centric but take it beyond that. Emulators are the easy way out, cartridge adapters are the cliche solution. I think it wouldn't be out of the bounds of reason to actually court some companies on making sequels to old IPs and making them exclusive to the console. This way the system truly is retro because it is reviving the old games that we remember and still love and always dreamed of playing a sequel of. No HD remake crap though, just pure continuation of the IP as if it were released a year after the latest game.

 

Place marketing as a the lowest priority. A good console for this particular demographic and niche will sell itself to it's target market. We don't care about multi-colored console shells and whether or not the people on your team have every minor experience in the game industry that you can list off. We only care about the business plan and whether or not you are going to make a console that will be worth owning.

[Gentlegamer]

Does hell go with no?

[Keatah]

They had a balls-to-the-wall saleperson running the campaign. A disaster in the making. Salespeople are there to sell, not manage.

 

After thinking about it I don't like the idea of cartridge adapters. That's one more piece of junk that needs looking after. And then they include a whole'nother set of contacts and connections creating potential reliability issues. And they always seem ratty and raggedy somehow - not fitting snug and just being a general hassle.

 

The best way to enjoy the classics is on the original system with original cartridges. A variation on that is a multi-cart. And if you don't want to dick with with fussy old hardware and piles of cartridges, step up to PC emulation and enjoy a world of rich "value-added" features. And in time, emulation will be the only way to play the original classics.

 

Something like the Zimba 3000 needs minimal marketing. An introductory pdf and spec sheet would work nicely. The product will sell itself to the audience that is interested in it. Keep them nonsense blabbering salespeople away from it.

[toiletunes]

Would I back it? No. Would I buy one later? Maybe.

[SIO2]

Everyone has a million ideas about what it should have been myself included. They could never make everyone 100% satisfied but now that it is this far down the road and they really have nothing, it seems like a lost cause.

 

Either build what you want and hope it sells or have a little focus group and see if you can hit 80% of that then build it.

 

Sometimes consumers don't know what they want until they see it. At one point, I would have never dreamed I would have any use for a tablet computer. Now my tablet might as well be glued to my hand.

 

I see someone suggested plastic cards as carts. Didn't someone try that? Anyhow, they could go really old school and use punch cards. I just thought I would throw that out since we are dreaming outloud.

[Algus]

So all I need to hack my games is a hole puncher?

 

Get this man a crowdfunding campaign

[roland p]

I see someone suggested plastic cards as carts. Didn't someone try that? Anyhow, they could go really old school and use punch cards. I just thought I would throw that out since we are dreaming outloud.

I thought smart cards (if possible) would be a good idea since they are cheap and easy to transport, and still give some sort of cartridge expirience. They could be updatable too.

Edited October 3, 2015 by roland p

[Algus]

On a serious note, I really liked the HuCards on the TG-16, in fact one of my favorite aspects of the console. Something like that only updated with modern conveniences would be pretty cool. On a larger (non portable) console, I'd appreciate media that was a little bigger than ie what PS Vita and 3DS use because I'm a clumsy oaf and I'm less likely to drop and lose something the size of a credit card (and yes, I've dropped more than one my 3DS games down the floor vents in my house).

[roland p]

Nice flashable repro hucards: http://www.db-elec.com/home/products/debee-card

[Keatah]

On a serious note, I really liked the HuCards on the TG-16, in fact one of my favorite aspects of the console. Something like that only updated with modern conveniences would be pretty cool.[..]

 

What sort of modern conveniences?

[Algus]

More storage space for one, I don't think 8 MiB is quite going to cut it for a "new" system.

 

Something that uses flash memory or partial ROM partial flash to accept updates, game saves, etc. directly to the card