Cannot load .cas, .wav or any other files to real Atari

[gelthor]

Hi all,

 

I'm tearing my hair out trying to get any downloaded games to run on my real Atari 400 or 130XE. I'm using a tape adapter connected to my android tablet running tapdancer, which can play the audio of CAS files among others. If I try to load by going into BASIC and then typing CLOAD, I get an error 21 after the first set of beeps, and if I hold down start whilst powering on and try to load that way, it lasts a bit longer and then comes up with BOOT ERROR. This happens with many different game files as well as WAV files created with cas2wav. (played with a normal audio app as opposed to tapdancer) The audio sounds a lot higher pitched and possibly faster than what you get when you load a real tape. I'm thinking the audio isn't being reproduced correctly but at a loss as to how to fix it. Any ideas?

 

Thanks in advance,

[baktra]

Hello,

 

1. I would suggest starting with a tape image that contains plain cassette boot file (e.g. here).

2. Use a8cas (http://a8cas.sf.net/) or Turgen System (http://turgen.sf.net/) to convert the tape image to wave file. CAS2WAV is outdated.

3. Power-on your 130XE with START+OPTION keys pressed

 

If this works, you can continue with further experiments.

[gelthor]

Thanks for the advice, I gave Turgen System a go, very nice tool. Still haven't got anything to load but it is...different. A WAV file generated from the "culomin" file using Turgen System will now play all the way through with no boot errors. (having started up pressing Start and Option) But it doesn't load anything either, the 130 never indicates that it's found anything. The same thing happens if I just start up holding Start. I tried converting zaxxon using the same tool but that still throws up boot errors if I turn on whilst holding start. Plays fully through without doing anything if Start and Option. Could be the file though. Thanks again for your help so far.

[russg]

Hi all,

 

I'm tearing my hair out trying to get any downloaded games to run on my real Atari 400 or 130XE. I'm using a tape adapter connected to my android tablet running tapdancer, which can play the audio of CAS files among others. If I try to load by going into BASIC and then typing CLOAD, I get an error 21 after the first set of beeps, and if I hold down start whilst powering on and try to load that way, it lasts a bit longer and then comes up with BOOT ERROR. This happens with many different game files as well as WAV files created with cas2wav. (played with a normal audio app as opposed to tapdancer) The audio sounds a lot higher pitched and possibly faster than what you get when you load a real tape. I'm thinking the audio isn't being reproduced correctly but at a loss as to how to fix it. Any ideas?

 

Thanks in advance,

What is the file extension of the game you're loading? ERROR 21 can mean you're trying to CLOAD a LISTed file. For a LISTed file you'd type 'ENTER "C:".

A LISTed file should have a .LST extension.

edit: Hold down OPTION and START. They are binary .CAS files.

Edited October 1, 2015 by russg

[gelthor]

Thanks, the file is a .cas. I think I was generally mistaken to think that CLOAD would work as I've read that's only for files that have been CSAVE'd. (you can tell I'm new at this) Pretty sure I should be starting the Atari with Start held down to load these. But that fails as well. I can't see that there's anything wrong with the computer, tape drive (it was new old stock) or adapter, it just seems like every single file I try is not something that the real machines can recognise. Either you get an error or they do nothing. My original copy of One Man and his Droid loads from tape no problems, as do all of the BASIC programmes I've typed in. Hmmm...

[russg]

Thanks, the file is a .cas. I think I was generally mistaken to think that CLOAD would work as I've read that's only for files that have been CSAVE'd. (you can tell I'm new at this) Pretty sure I should be starting the Atari with Start held down to load these. But that fails as well. I can't see that there's anything wrong with the computer, tape drive (it was new old stock) or adapter, it just seems like every single file I try is not something that the real machines can recognise. Either you get an error or they do nothing. My original copy of One Man and his Droid loads from tape no problems, as do all of the BASIC programmes I've typed in. Hmmm...

I really don't know. But, hold OPTION to disable BASIC, and START for tape.

How do you make the .CAS file make sound? Emulators have tape features to load .CAS files.

Edited October 1, 2015 by russg

[djmat56]

Try loading both the cas file and wav file from a different device. I tried with my phone which didn't work properly but then tried with an android tablet and this worked. Just need to get the volume level right and make sure there are no filters running as some devices have audio enhancers

[baktra]

Thanks for the advice, I gave Turgen System a go, very nice tool. Still haven't got anything to load but it is...different. A WAV file generated from the "culomin" file using Turgen System will now play all the way through with no boot errors. (having started up pressing Start and Option) But it doesn't load anything either, the 130 never indicates that it's found anything. The same thing happens if I just start up holding Start. I tried converting zaxxon using the same tool but that still throws up boot errors if I turn on whilst holding start. Plays fully through without doing anything if Start and Option. Could be the file though. Thanks again for your help so far.

 

Try the attached .cas. - boot with START+OPTION. After reading 4 blocks, there should be the program name displayed and then loading continues.

culomin_mp.zip

[gelthor]

Thanks again to all but still no luck I'm afraid. Tried the culomin_mp file which still didn't work whether I was using an Android tablet, windows phone or windows PC, then tried playing around with volume levels. I realised that if the volume is high, (on any device) the tones from the file sound high pitched and screetchy. I can get them to sound like the normal tape tones by turning the volume (on the playing device) right down. I thought that might have done it but the programme name never appears, both machines (Atari 400 and 130XE) still find nothing. It seems like I have to turn the volume down to stop the sound corrupting in some way, but because of that the volume is too low for the poor old Atari to recognise anything. Not sure what else to try at this stage, very strange. I have no problem playing .tap files into my ZX Spectrum with the same Android tablet.

[1050]

Any luck with this zipped cas file in this post?

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/129755-question/?do=findComment&comment=1565431

 

Only reason I offer it is because I know it works on real equipment as well as emulators.

 

Just to be sure you hear this - START + OPTION pressed at power up. Wait for the beep, Atari tape machines were supposed to start automagically at this point but you aren't using one. PRESS ANY KEY and then start the audio feed. Pressing any key may be important here. Since the above post, I did get a tape drive working and tested this file on a real system to find complete satisfaction with the results - hope you do too.

[gelthor]

Still not working I'm afraid. I'm now leaning towards the crappy ebay tape adapter that I bought as the source of the problem, delivering bad quality sound to the machine. That would explain why normal tapes load fine. You can hear it making popping and whining noises even when no audio file is playing. Just to clarify, I'm using an XC12 with said adapter, it's the one at the link below:

 

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Car-Stereo-Cassette-Tape-Adapter-for-iPod-iPhone-MP3-AUX-CD-Player-3-5mm-/331354667934?hash=item4d2646fb9e

 

Different seller but it's the same probably Chinese product. Anyone had problems with these before? For some reason I hadn't thought of it but I watched a Youtube video from Theshadowsnose where he was able to load a game using a similar adapter. It's probably just that mine's the cheapest one possible.

[thorfdbg]

But you do have a 410 or 1010 program recorder, don't you? Just asking.... A regular audio tape recorder will not work simply because parts of the decoding logic are in the tape recorder.

[1050]

Sounds silly, but have you tried it with the cassette adapter flipped over upside down? You may be feeding the wrong head with it right side up. Output may be on only one channel too and it's the wrong channel for you? Flipping it may correct the situation.

 

I've not had such problems with those adapters but mine are Sony for car use of portable CD players and for that they do work fine, I haven't tried to do this with those though.

 

IF I remember correctly, I had to use my Radio Shack cassette recorder that I had for Timex 2068 basic program saving and it did just fine. But really the details are so far in the distant fog I can't recall just how I got it hooked up to the Atari even. I may have wired it into pin 11 (audio in) of the SIO socket for that matter. Don't recall having the issue thorfdbg mentions above either and again, it happened so long ago all I can remember is my file worked.

[Joey Z]

Sounds silly, but have you tried it with the cassette adapter flipped over upside down? You may be feeding the wrong head with it right side up. Output may be on only one channel too and it's the wrong channel for you? Flipping it may correct the situation.

 

I've not had such problems with those adapters but mine are Sony for car use of portable CD players and for that they do work fine, I haven't tried to do this with those though.

 

IF I remember correctly, I had to use my Radio Shack cassette recorder that I had for Timex 2068 basic program saving and it did just fine. But really the details are so far in the distant fog I can't recall just how I got it hooked up to the Atari even. I may have wired it into pin 11 (audio in) of the SIO socket for that matter. Don't recall having the issue thorfdbg mentions above either and again, it happened so long ago all I can remember is my file worked.

you can't use a normal cassette player on the atari without extra hardware. The cassette drive itself does the decoding of the data internally, the audio in pin on SIO is for nothing more than audio playback.

[1050]

Thanks, so then I must have got a belt or eventually found one among the several Atari recorders I have that did work and used the radio shack job to record the wav file onto the cassette. As I have no special hardware and would have remembered needing it. I see by XC12 schematic just now, that right head is for companion audio entertainment while left head does data in/data out duties.

 

Checking a decent set of headphones, tip is left and I have gotten some chinese product before where left was not left in the past. The cheaper you can get it for, the more chance you have of that happening, I'm assuming here.

[gelthor]

I have the newer XC12 program recorder as opposed to a 410 or 1010. Tried the tape (adapter) both ways up and no luck. Even tried it on the C64 and that didn't work either. (although I've a feeling the tape drive for that is broken) I think it has to be the adapter because we've determined pretty definitively that the computer, tape drive and files are ok. In my frustration with the world of tapes I've ordered myself an SIO2SD from Lotharek, that should hopefully be a better solution all round. Thanks all for your help anyway, might get a better (maybe Sony) adapter in future just to see if the theory was correct.

[charliecron]

They make bluetooth cassette adpaters nowadays!

[Mercenary6502]

A few years ago, I attempted the same thing with one of those cassette adapters, a 410, and my 800XL. While I actually did have sucess with it, it was always a 50/50 chance that a tape image would fully load. The key for me was getting the right volume level but some CAS images just plain didn't work period. Plus waiting all that time for something load wasn't the most ideal thing in the modern world. Then I discovered how cheap and easy I could acquire and install a FT232L adapter as a USB virtual floppy drive using the Aspeqt program and life was good!! I remember how amazed and excited I was when my Atari loaded a disk of my choice via USB for the first time!

 

I still have a thing for cassettes though, don't know why

 

Anyway, good luck and enjoy your SIO2SD!

[baktra]

A few years ago, I attempted the same thing with one of those cassette adapters, a 410, and my 800XL. While I actually did have sucess with it, it was always a 50/50 chance that a tape image would fully load. The key for me was getting the right volume level but some CAS images just plain didn't work period. Plus waiting all that time for something load wasn't the most ideal thing in the modern world. Then I discovered how cheap and easy I could acquire and install a FT232L adapter as a USB virtual floppy drive using the Aspeqt program and life was good!! I remember how amazed and excited I was when my Atari loaded a disk of my choice via USB for the first time!

 

I still have a thing for cassettes though, don't know why

 

Anyway, good luck and enjoy your SIO2SD!

 

One general problem with the cassette adapter is that the MOTOR CONTROL signal is ignored.

Imagine loading a binary file with an INIT segment that waits for a key to be pressed or with a decompression code that takes 20 seconds.

 

I still like using cassettes. The turbo upgrades popular in central and eastern europe made the loading bit easier and faster. Watch this list: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnqSXe6ZNAyRwzDZD8d7SW_jMgbls9-WX

[Mercenary6502]

 

One general problem with the cassette adapter is that the MOTOR CONTROL signal is ignored.

Imagine loading a binary file with an INIT segment that waits for a key to be pressed or with a decompression code that takes 20 seconds.

 

I still like using cassettes. The turbo upgrades popular in central and eastern europe made the loading bit easier and faster. Watch this list: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnqSXe6ZNAyRwzDZD8d7SW_jMgbls9-WX

 

Yeah that's not bad at all! Amazing the little things people thought up in those old computer days that made things better. And that makes sense about the motor control signal.

Edited October 7, 2015 by programmer6502