Sega Genesis Classic Game Console.

[Flojomojo]

The only place I've heard that is from you (they aren't the best at keeping their website up to date), and while I trust your integrity and everything, you don't work for them, so I'll believe it when I see it! :-)

 

As you say, there are plenty of alternatives. It's neat to have "official" things with real branding in real stores, though. I got a minor charge out of seeing the new black Sega Genesis boxes stacked up high. 1989 me remembers when that would have been lot of money and very shiny new tech! Like a stack of iPads would appear today.

 

In twenty-five years, a stack of iPads will seem as quaint as a stack of Sega Genesises does today. The Sega Genesis will be fifty years old and will seem completely Jurassic.

[Bill Loguidice]

The only place I've heard that is from you (they aren't the best at keeping their website up to date), and while I trust your integrity and everything, you don't work for them, so I'll believe it when I see it! :-)

 

I do work for them (as an Independent Contractor) and if you trust my "integrity and everything," then why would I start lying now about anything that I've said in this thread or elsewhere? While there are certain discussions and other activity I can't share for obvious reasons, I try to share what I can when I can.

[Flojomojo]

I do work for them (as an Independent Contractor) and if you trust my "integrity and everything," then why would I start lying now about anything that I've said in this thread or elsewhere? While there are certain discussions and other activity I can't share for obvious reasons, I try to share what I can when I can.

Please don't take it personally! No one ever said you are lying about AtGames, and I'm shocked and sorry if I mistakenly conveyed that idea. Perhaps the emphasis should be on I trust YOUR integrity and everything. AtGames is not you!

 

I was under the impression that as an "Independent Contractor," you had some distance between yourself and the decision makers about their products. I trust your gaming judgment, and of course believe you when you say you tested their improved retro remake consoles, and appreciate everything you've shared so far.

[English Invader]

I got better audio when I ran KGen through DOSBox.

 

Kega Fusion is pretty much indistinguishable from the real hardware and, in some ways, it's even better than the real thing. If there were some way that they could integrate that kind of emulation into a hardware clone solution that plugs into the TV it would be a much more appealing prospect.

[Bill Loguidice]

Please don't take it personally! No one ever said you are lying about AtGames, and I'm shocked and sorry if I mistakenly conveyed that idea. Perhaps the emphasis should be on I trust YOUR integrity and everything. AtGames is not you!

 

I was under the impression that as an "Independent Contractor," you had some distance between yourself and the decision makers about their products. I trust your gaming judgment, and of course believe you when you say you tested their improved retro remake consoles, and appreciate everything you've shared so far.

 

I didn't, no worries. I deal directly with the highest level of executives (the actual decision makers there) and very rarely with any other level of the company, like engineering (there would be no real reason for me to). I do consider them ethical and with high levels of integrity, which is why I was glad to work with them for a few years even without a formal agreement in place. They do in fact have good intentions, but there is definitely an occasional disconnect between what the decision makers want and what engineering is able to deliver (or with what other external forces come to dictate), and, considering the time-based business that they're in (big box retail has a very specific buying and shelving cycle), lots of stuff can fall through the cracks (for instance, we all know what happened with the controllers on the Intellivision and ColecoVision Flashbacks). So yes, what little tidbits of info I am able to provide are absolutely rock solid until something does or does not come along to change it, which I suppose is inevitable with any early peak into such a process (in my day job as Technical Writer for a surveillance data distribution company for air traffic control systems outside of the freelance writing and consulting I do, I deal with that on a regular basis as well, so I don't think it's necessarily unique to AtGames or their industry).

[7800fan]

 

Yes, the AtGames portable Genesis is the same hardware as last year's model and works the same as the console. And no, you can't use 32X or SMS stuff, but you can't use the former on the Nomad either (I have an LCD-modded Nomad and it's pretty great, despite the relative bulk). The prototype AtGames portable I've had for a few years now is really great and has a few surprises contained within, so I really hope that's the one they go with for 2016 rather than an upgrade of their current platform. We'll see, though.

 

So the video out on Nomad doesn't offer proper RGB signal needed for 32X to overlay? I was under the impression you could use 32X with an external display since Nomad doesn't have video-in feature.

 

Or is there something else that prevents 32X from working on Nomad?

 

Another question: why so much empty space in a box? The box looks like they could hold 4 of the portable systems if the tray were redesigned.

Edited December 8, 2015 by 7800fan

[Flojomojo]

Another question: why so much empty space in a box? The box looks like they could hold 4 of the portable systems if the tray were redesigned.

Speculation: They display better in a big box, and it's much more difficult to shoplift something of that size.

 

I've bought similar handhelds from plastic blister packs that were much smaller and could hang on a peg rack.

 

I suspect they have their reasons.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

So the video out on Nomad doesn't offer proper RGB signal needed for 32X to overlay? I was under the impression you could use 32X with an external display since Nomad doesn't have video-in feature.

 

Or is there something else that prevents 32X from working on Nomad?

 

As far as I know you'd need to make some internal and other modifications to and with the Nomad to get it all to work. I've never seen someone have a setup like that any other way. For that type of effort you just get a Genesis 1 or 2 console and take the Nomad out of the equation, or just go for a straight up emulation-based handheld and run 32X games that way. It's not like the Nomad quite runs every Genesis game anyway, so if you're really into the system, you'll want a real original console or two.

[Flojomojo]

A fast Android device like Nvidia Shield or GPD XD running RetroArch can do 32X games as well as a real 32X, and with a lot more portability than a Nomad (!) with a 32X (!!) attached.

[Wickeycolumbus]

Been curious about these genesis clones for a while now, and finally broke down and bought one on black friday. It was pretty cool to see a shelf full of these. Though I've never been into genesis much, I can still appreciate the experience of buying a new piece of hardware that can play the old cartridges. Pretty happy with it, I think it's definitely worth it.

 

I didn't notice that the sound was so bad until I put my Street Fighter cartridge in. Was kind of painful to hear that so butchered

[7800fan]

Blame it on the sound chip. AtGames couldn't get the genuine original sound chip used in Genesis and I don't think they can clone it perfectly so it ends up sounding way off.

 

I haven't taken any apart so I don't know how the sound chip is done. If it's separate from the mail parts, it may be possible to salvage a genuine Yamaha sound chip and swap it into the clone to get correct sound. But I bet all of the stuff is under one big black blob which would make hacking a lot harder.

 

I looked at schematic, the data and address line for sound chip are not connected to cart slot, they are between CPU, propriety Sega chips, couple RAM chips and Yamaha sound chip. so it will be hard to hack in original sound chip if the clone has everything in one blob.

 

PS can one make it so the future clones have a spot to solder on original Yamaha sound chip and disable the built in crappy sounding clone chip? Like how FLashback 2 had spot for soldering on 2600 cart slot so it could play real 2600 games?

[Brian R.]

Won't see me buy any of the AtGames products. They're garbage. Besides making money, I don't know why they bother - probably because they can make money.

 

And for something as recent as the Genesis, if you want to play the real carts, you're best off getting a real console and passing on this junk, which is a waste of money IMO.

 

They've churned out so much junk that any talk of "improved" products next year rings hollow with me. The 2600 was right with the 2s... then we get the bad 3, 4, 5, and 6...

Edited December 13, 2015 by Brian R.

[Flojomojo]

Blame it on the sound chip. AtGames couldn't get the genuine original sound chip used in Genesis and I don't think they can clone it perfectly so it ends up sounding way off.

 

I haven't taken any apart so I don't know how the sound chip is done. If it's separate from the mail parts, it may be possible to salvage a genuine Yamaha sound chip and swap it into the clone to get correct sound. But I bet all of the stuff is under one big black blob which would make hacking a lot harder.

 

I looked at schematic, the data and address line for sound chip are not connected to cart slot, they are between CPU, propriety Sega chips, couple RAM chips and Yamaha sound chip. so it will be hard to hack in original sound chip if the clone has everything in one blob.

 

PS can one make it so the future clones have a spot to solder on original Yamaha sound chip and disable the built in crappy sounding clone chip? Like how FLashback 2 had spot for soldering on 2600 cart slot so it could play real 2600 games?

I don't think you'll be soldering anything to the system on a chip. It's under a big glob.

[amiman99]

Always wondered if the AtGames genesis multicart would work on real Genesis, anyone knows?

 

I have the blue portable version and the system is OK, the sound is a downer, and not the best system, compared to PicoDrive on my GP2X which also plays Virtua Racing.

I have an issue with Mortal Kombat game (2 or 3), I cant do Liu Kang's flying kick move, you need to hold one button for 4sec while you fight.

 

One comment I would add is that the screen is bit too small and buttons are to close to each other, might be good for small children but not so good for adults.

[Chuck D. Head]

A few things:

 

- Regarding the boxes, maybe Atgames is trying to maintain a standard footprint for their boxes; I have a pile of the damn things now and they are consistent.

 

- The "console" Genesis was disappointing. The controllers were really pretty poor and the sound as mentioned was atrocious and I am not very picky.

 

- The handheld (blue version) was pretty decent, I don't know that the sound is really any better, maybe my expectations are lower for the handheld. The rest of the experience is just fine and while the console version stays relegated to it's box, I keep the handheld charged by my bed and play with it every few weeks. The SD card slot was a big deal for me and let's me play any of my favorites on a whim.

[Great Hierophant]

Lord Karnage was complaining about the audio quality five years ago in one of atgames' predecessors :

 

 

When does anyone think that Atgames will get around to improving it given their sh***y track record? Remarkable how they are able to murder both the YM-2612 and the TI SN76489, the latter of which is a really simple PSG. A Genesis 3 runs miles around this garbage :

 

Their Genesis-on-a-chip sounds like it was descended from a long-gone Taiwanese outfit just like the NES-on-a-chips were and has never been updated. Sega's (almost) one-chip solution found in the Genesis 3 must have been too expensive to implement. Majesco Sales was practically golden by comparison. Why should these dung peddlers when they can count on the ignorance of the general public? Even an emulator-based console like their Atari, Intellivision and Colecovision consoles could give better sound.

[English Invader]

As already mentioned, you'll get better sound quality if you run MS-DOS emulators through DOSBox (an emulator running emulators):

[philyso]

Why do people keep saying it's a replica of Genesis hardware like a miniaturized Genesis 3 chip? Has it been really confirmed what was below those globtops or is it still just speculation? Indeed, just because it can communicate with real cartridge is no proof (see recent Retron 5 & co )? Also, why would it sound so bad when even cheap Genesis-on-a-chip Tectoy clones like the one used in Retron 3 sound way better than that. Why would they have designed a new hardware clone from scratch when ones that are small enough and have good compatibility already exist on the market and when software emulation running on a cheap mobile SoC would cost them way less to develop?

 

Another clue are the "unofficial" included games (Logic Dial, Panic Lift, etc). They do not sound or look like Genesis games, the audio samples and number of colors seem to be enhanced. I suspect this is emulation of Genesis model with somehow enhanced (32-bit ?) features that use hardware features of a modern SoC (similarly" to the Gigadrive emulator developed by M2 for their 3DS "ports", although nothing comparable quality-wise).

 

No, really, this sounds more like an inaccurate or bugged software emulator to me, especially if this thing can do savestate stuff (is it really?) which would be impossible to implement completely with a real hardware clone.

 

Also saying the sound is bad because the FM chip is undocumented or part of some dirty Sega's secret is quite wrong: the chip has been emulated for decade in MAME and is now quite accurately documented by emulator developers. Actually, ATGames machines even sound worst than very early emulators like Genecyst, as mentionned in an above post. To me, it seems more that the hardware running ATGames Firecore is not powerful enough for handling accurate FM emulation... or they just did not want investing more for better emulation or later bugfixes and thought this would be good enough for the customer base they were aiming to.

 

Finally, I don't understand why people keep reviewing this as if this was something new every time a new "edition" comes out: this is still the same Firecore menu with the same games selection we have seen on every variation of this product and it does not seem the hardware has been changed either since the first release. Basically, they managed to get the Mortal Kombat license and added 3 new ROMS in the on-board memory, and that's all.

Edited December 22, 2015 by philyso

[Bill Loguidice]

Why do people keep saying it's a replica of Genesis hardware like a miniaturized Genesis 3 chip? Has it been really confirmed what was below those globtops or is it still just speculation? Indeed, just because it can communicate with real cartridge is no proof (see recent Retron 5 & co )? Also, why would it sound so bad when even cheap Genesis-on-a-chip Tectoy clones like the one used in Retron 3 sound way better than that. Why would they have designed a new hardware clone from scratch when ones that are small enough and have good compatibility already exist on the market and when software emulation running on a cheap mobile SoC would cost them way less to develop?

 

Another clue are the "unofficial" included games (Logic Dial, Panic Lift, etc). They do not sound or look like Genesis games, the audio samples and number of colors seem to be enhanced. I suspect this is emulation of Genesis model with somehow enhanced (32-bit ?) features that use hardware features of a modern SoC (similarly" to the Gigadrive emulator developed by M2 for their 3DS "ports", although nothing comparable quality-wise).

 

<snip>

 

Finally, I don't understand why people keep reviewing this as if this was something new every time a new "edition" comes out: this is still the same Firecore menu with the same games selection we have seen on every variation of this product and it does not seem the hardware has been changed either since the first release. Basically, they managed to get the Mortal Kombat license and added 3 new ROMS in the on-board memory, and that's all.

 

It is a Genesis-on-a-chip and those low quality third party games you mention do run on real hardware. They occasionally offer those same types of games as a multi-cart that can be used in a real Genesis.

 

The hardware has been enhanced since the initial release, but not in the past few (maybe as many as three - I haven't checked the number) iterations. There is every indication that they'll be enhancing their hardware across the board for their various 2016 releases, but until everything is finalized, there's no way to know for sure (to be clear, they've told me they're looking into enhancing the hardware, but if that plan doesn't work out, I wouldn't be surprised to see them go with the same exact hardware as before. They'll be doing some interesting stuff software-wise for the 2016 releases, so I'm thinking they almost have no choice but to make some improvements to make that happen, but again, it's AtGames, and their best laid plans don't always work out for one reason or another).

Edited December 22, 2015 by Bill Loguidice

[Flojomojo]

Here's hoping. It will be 2016 Real Soon Now.

[onmode-ky]

 

Why do people keep saying it's a replica of Genesis hardware like a miniaturized Genesis 3 chip? Has it been really confirmed what was below those globtops or is it still just speculation?

It is a Genesis-on-a-chip and those low quality third party games you mention do run on real hardware.

In case you weren't aware, Bill consults for AtGames. A while ago, they explicitly related to him that their RedKid-series chips are Genesis-on-a-chip implementations.

 

A few months prior to that revelation in 2013, though, I had already found some indications that AtGames' products were GOAC-based, rather than the popularly held notion that they were built on emulation. If you start from this AtariAge forum post I wrote back then and read all the way to the bottom of the thread (might want to set aside a chunk of time if you plan to do that, FYI), you'll see how my research unfolded into the conclusions we know today. The very last post goes through some litigation history that suggests (does not corroborate) the possibility that the original RedKid chip may have been derived from the Genesis-on-a-chip implementation used by Radica Games and Sega Toys back in 2004-2006 in their Genesis plug-n-play systems. So, in answer to your question, "Why would they have designed a new hardware clone from scratch?", maybe they didn't.

 

Also, no, the current AtGames Sega offerings do not have save-state capability. And the guy who talked about hacking a genuine Genesis sound chip into an AtGames system was asking the impossible, or at least extremely difficult. It's a Genesis-on-a-SINGLE-chip under the glob; you'd need to be capable of microscopic surgery to redirect the audio processing to somewhere outside the chip. There is no separate sound chip on the board, under the glob or otherwise, for you to try to circumvent.

 

onmode-ky

[philyso]

In case you weren't aware, Bill consults for AtGames. A while ago, they explicitly related to him that their RedKid-series chips are Genesis-on-a-chip implementations.A few months prior to that revelation in 2013, though, I had already found some indications that AtGames' products were GOAC-based, rather than the popularly held notion that they were built on emulation. If you start from this AtariAge forum post I wrote back then and read all the way to the bottom of the thread (might want to set aside a chunk of time if you plan to do that, FYI), you'll see how my research unfolded into the conclusions we know today.

I see, thanks for the insight and for this link, I had noticed the Radica board was very similar to AtGames board (Flash ROM + similary sized globtop connected to crystal clock oscillator) so this theory seems indeed plausible. The part in Shen Yang resume about "...several novel image, video, and audio processing algorithms on RK and RK2" is weird though and seems to imply it's running software.

 

Anyway, I always thought that RK was related to Rockchip which is a cheap ARM Soc and only heard about the Titan chip press release but if AtGames themselves confirmed they are using a real GOAC and not a mobile SoC running a dedicated software, I guess this clears things up :-)

 

It is a Genesis-on-a-chip and those low quality third party games you mention do run on real hardware. They occasionally offer those same types of games as a multi-cart that can be used in a real Genesis.

 

I have got some of these games as rom files and some of them do not run on a real Genesis or emulators (see this thread http://s4.zetaboards.com/PGC_Forums/single/?p=8152405&t=8832753) . People have analyzed them and discovered the game software was trying to access hardware that do not exist on a retail Genesis (like normally unused memory ports and extended color palette / vram). Looking at the research done by onmide-ky in the link posted above though, it seems the RK2 IC is indeed retaining Genesis compatibility while adding enhanced features, which might explain why these games only work on Atgames consoles and look/sound different than normal Genesis games. See also these variants that include some games clearly not designed to work on native Genesis hardware: http://segaretro.org/Arcade_Motion_Classic and http://segaretro.org/Arcade_Motion_Dual Edited December 22, 2015 by philyso

[7800fan]

1 thing about the system boxes.

 

1: the big box size is not really a determent to shoplifting. The tiny sticker that seals the flap is quite weak and poor and determined thief can easily open it to remove the contents. I found 2 empty Genesis handheld boxes today hiding among bathing towels. May I suggest using something a little stronger as I've seen some boxes whose seals have come off already. Better yet, use something both stronger and covers a whole lot more than just 1" of the flap edge. It may cost 2 more cents per box but the retails will thank Atgames for making these cheap stuff a little harder to pilfer.

[Great Hierophant]

1 thing about the system boxes.

 

1: the big box size is not really a determent to shoplifting. The tiny sticker that seals the flap is quite weak and poor and determined thief can easily open it to remove the contents. I found 2 empty Genesis handheld boxes today hiding among bathing towels. May I suggest using something a little stronger as I've seen some boxes whose seals have come off already. Better yet, use something both stronger and covers a whole lot more than just 1" of the flap edge. It may cost 2 more cents per box but the retails will thank Atgames for making these cheap stuff a little harder to pilfer.

 

I saw the Atari and Genesis Atgames systems behind the cashier's counter at a Rite-Aid. I am sure that most shoplifters would find it much more difficult to steal when they have to deal with a human being, are in the area of the store with the best video coverage and either have to bolt out the door or make a request like "I'd like to put it in my shopping cart" which would make the cashier suspicious.

 

I read about a Genesis clone several years ago that had reasonably accurate sound but that the audio level of the TI SN76489 was too low compared to the YM-2612 and had a fix for it. I do not know the clone's name, but I am sure that it was not an Atgames clone. It goes to show that there are better clones, even the Retron 3 has better audio.

[7800fan]

 

I saw the Atari and Genesis Atgames systems behind the cashier's counter at a Rite-Aid. I am sure that most shoplifters would find it much more difficult to steal when they have to deal with a human being, are in the area of the store with the best video coverage and either have to bolt out the door or make a request like "I'd like to put it in my shopping cart" which would make the cashier suspicious.

 

At Meijer the game stuff were left on the shelf, anyone could pick it up and continue shopping or hide somewhere to open and pilfer. I'm sure the security will figure who took it, they just need to review and find someone who took 2 of the boxes, went to bathing isle, spent a few minutes there, and then left without the 2 boxes. His face will end up on office's watch board and they will watch the person closely next time he comes in, it's usually how they catch shoplifter.