Marble Madness 2: Marble Man

[Keatah]

On 7/27/2021 at 4:14 PM, negative1 said:

i love akka arrh, and maze invaders, those are just hidden gems that should have been released.

 

later

-1

Sounds like a grinding bowl movement.. Aaaaaakkkkkaaaa AAAAAaaaarrrggggghhhhhhaaaaa!!

 

On 8/2/2021 at 11:32 AM, x=usr(1536) said:

It's always good to see someone's true attitude come to the forefront.  Now there's one more forum where that's documented, which is nice.

 

For the casual reader: welcome to the cesspit that is the arcade game collecting community.  Yes, it really is - rather unfortunately - like this a lot of the time.

Mmm I tend to agree. It reminds me a lot of puffy-headed Unix guys thinking they know everything. And you're a nothing if you know less then them. The attitude still prevails today.

[Keatah]

5 hours ago, Place Logo Here said:

This is going to sound back-handed, but it isn't meant to: I am grateful because now I feel I didn't miss much by never getting to play the game.

Longplay videos are sometimes enough to satisfy my curiosity of what a game is like. Certainly lessens the need to actually seek it out or go through the time-consuming inconvenience of making a "pilgrimage" to an arcade.

 

Quote

The original Marble Madness may have the greatest disparity between how much I love a game compared to how bad I am at it.  I was, and still am, reeeeeeeally bad at Marble Madness.

I sucked at it too. Found the controls to be soft'n'smushy, laggy even. Too much momentum and not enough snap.

 

Quote

I felt deep frustration almost the entire time I watched the playthrough, and that is just me watching somebody else play.  And while there is a lot of new content, very little of it seemed to translate into innovative gameplay.

That's right. There could have been so much more done with the game. A whole host of things I'm happy to keep to myself. So there!!

 

Quote

Really, the power-ups and the water level are the only thing that caught my attention--everything else was just window-dressing.  Whether one is crushed by the black marble, jackhammers, fists, bricks or trolls, is there really a difference?  I felt a strong twinge of nostalgia when we finally saw the deadly slinky tube creatures, because they still somehow had more personality and strangeness than anything new to this sequel.

I see this sequel to be just more of the same. Yes. I'm not sure I'd sink any quarters into it beyond a play or two at most. Just sucked at the game overall.

 

I recall there being a big stink about a new game being announced back then. MM. And the first time I played it I was wowed by the graphics and concept. But quickly soured on it due to the time pressure imparted during gameplay. Too easy to get behind the 8-ball so to speak.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Keatah

[negative1]

i impressed with all the new additions, and gameplay features.

 

its a very worth successor to the original, and much more challenging too.

 

hope to play it soon someday, it feels like its getting closer.

 

later

-1

[Crimefighter]

15 hours ago, Place Logo Here said:

I cannot thank you enough for posting that longplay.

 

This is going to sound back-handed, but it isn't meant to: I am grateful because now I feel I didn't miss much by never getting to play the game.

 

The original Marble Madness may have the greatest disparity between how much I love a game compared to how bad I am at it.  I was, and still am, reeeeeeeally bad at Marble Madness.

 

I felt deep frustration almost the entire time I watched the playthrough, and that is just me watching somebody else play.  And while there is a lot of new content, very little of it seemed to translate into innovative gameplay. 

 

Really, the power-ups and the water level are the only thing that caught my attention--everything else was just window-dressing.  Whether one is crushed by the black marble, jackhammers, fists, bricks or trolls, is there really a difference?  I felt a strong twinge of nostalgia when we finally saw the deadly slinky tube creatures, because they still somehow had more personality and strangeness than anything new to this sequel.

Hence why it's a prototype.  But someday this will be unveiled at Galloping Ghost Arcade as a Monday Mystery game...maybe #900 as those milestones are always something special.

[SlappyHappy2000]

If the game turns out to be bad, then at least the music is good.

 

[negative1]

5 hours ago, SlappyHappy2000 said:

If the game turns out to be bad, then at least the music is good.

 

why would the game be bad. we've already seen the levels and gameplay.

 

later

-1

[SlappyHappy2000]

41 minutes ago, negative1 said:

why would the game be bad. we've already seen the levels and gameplay.

 

later

-1

Forgive me, I misspoke. Might be better to replace "bad" with "received poorly by the majority once it becomes public".
I personally think the game will be fantastic to play. Of course, not everyone will share the same opinion.

[Tornadoboy]

With having now seen but not played it I can guarantee you this much, it's no Spy Hunter II that's for sure, which frankly was the Star Wars Holiday Special of video game sequels. If it had been in my local arcade would I have played it? Again with only the videos to go by I'd say yeah probably, it's unlikely it would have been addictive to me like some games and I doubt I would have liked the joysticks, but at first blush it looks like it has potential and I could have seen myself sticking with it until I got through all the levels.

[negative1]

2 hours ago, Tornadoboy said:

With having now seen but not played it I can guarantee you this much, it's no Spy Hunter II that's for sure, which frankly was the Star Wars Holiday Special of video game sequels. If it had been in my local arcade would I have played it? Again with only the videos to go by I'd say yeah probably, it's unlikely it would have been addictive to me like some games and I doubt I would have liked the joysticks, but at first blush it looks like it has potential and I could have seen myself sticking with it until I got through all the levels.

when marble madness came out, i was in college.

 

the machine was constantly played for about a month, until people mastered it.

the two player mode lasted a little bit longer, then it collected dust.

 

if marble madness 2 had come out, it would have been a massive hit, in college.

because people liked the challenge, and also, with 3 players, it would have gotten tons of challengers.

 

the joystick might have stopped a few people. but there were plenty of people that were terrible with the trackball,

so it really wouldn't have mattered much.

 

personally, i prefer the trackball, but i could live with a joystick.

 

the xbox version uses an analog stick, (with the speed set to turbo), so it's easier in some ways.

the anstream online version uses a joystick, but no speed up, so it's practically impossible to play.

 

if they're going to use a joystick, you need to have a turbo button to speed up the ball.

 

later

-1

[negative1]

2 hours ago, SlappyHappy2000 said:

Forgive me, I misspoke. Might be better to replace "bad" with "received poorly by the majority once it becomes public".
I personally think the game will be fantastic to play. Of course, not everyone will share the same opinion.

i honestly don't think that many people will care.

 

marble madness players might check it out, and might like it.

 

akka arrh was a long lost prototype - now granted, it had no fanbase, so that's not really a good comparison,

but there's zero discussion about that, since it came out, besides some controversy about how people got it.

 

so there's not really anything i can think of to compare it to.

 

i have a feeling a few people (like me), will play it a lot, but most will try it out a few times, and then move onto

something else they want, or don't have.

 

later

-1

Edited December 30, 2021 by negative1

[+x=usr(1536)]

3 hours ago, negative1 said:

why would the game be bad.

Because opinion varies.  Wait until you've played it before passing judgement one way or the other.

3 hours ago, negative1 said:

we've already seen the levels and gameplay.

For 1985 or 1986, they might have been enough to earn better on test.  In 1992, it's easy to see why that didn't happen, and it wasn't just down to the levels, gameply, or controllers.

2 hours ago, Tornadoboy said:

it's no Spy Hunter II that's for sure, which frankly was the Star Wars Holiday Special of video game sequels.

Agreed.  The one thing Spy Hunter II had going for it was the decision to place a bezel over the screen in order to divide it into two halves.  It wasn't a good idea, but Bally at least deserves some credit for trying something different with it.  Unfortunately, the rest of the game is just not very good at all.

2 hours ago, Tornadoboy said:

Again with only the videos to go by I'd say yeah probably, it's unlikely it would have been addictive to me like some games and I doubt I would have liked the joysticks, but at first blush it looks like it has potential and I could have seen myself sticking with it until I got through all the levels.

This is where I maintain that MM2's big problem was coming out six or seven years too late: the momentum that the original had in the arcade was gone by the time MM2 showed up in 1992 and fighting games were the big thing.  It's not so much that this was a truly awful game, but more that it didn't hold up well against its predecessor and more so as time went on.

[Keatah]

2 hours ago, SlappyHappy2000 said:

Forgive me, I misspoke. Might be better to replace "bad" with "received poorly by the majority once it becomes public".
I personally think the game will be fantastic to play. Of course, not everyone will share the same opinion.

 

Well.. like most things hyped on the internet - in my mind's eye I feel like I've already played it, explored the levels, all that. Nothing left to do besides going through the motion of playing one game. And that's just to gain dubious bragging rights saying I played it! For any of that to even happen it has to first be easily accessible and convenient for me. Certainly won't make any once-in-a-lifetime pilgrimages or voyages of lengthy undertaking to play it.

 

Had I not seen as much already, I'd still be curious and even visit Galloping Ghost (1 hour away). In pursuit of the adventure of discovering and working through a brand new game! Assuming it gets there. Just like the old days.

 

Back then we'd read a one page or one-column announcement of new Game X. Then the excitement and anticipation and discussion would take over. Then we'd hafta play it in the arcade for real. We'd all be starry eyed and stuff when like magic Game X appeared at the local hangout. Was a real treat. But. Yes. Thanks to the internet that sense of excitement is quelled quite nicely.

 

4 minutes ago, negative1 said:

if they're going to use a joystick, you need to have a turbo button to speed up the ball.

I would agree on that. Though I'm quite happy to do a joystick or even a button pad like a scissors keyboard. When I play the original Marble Madness on MAME I'm happy with the mouse and keyboard combo.

 

To me trackballs are way over-hyped, godified even, clumsy, sloppy, and inaccurate.

[Keatah]

19 minutes ago, negative1 said:

i have a feeling a few people (like me), will play it a lot, but most will try it out a few times, and then move onto something else they want, or don't have.

Defo the one to play it one time.

 

All too often stuff is over-marketed today. Leaving the consumer confused about what to believe. To have a shallow feeling something didn't live up to internet-generated hype.

 

Gosh how I hate that methodology and state of affairs.

[Tornadoboy]

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

The one thing Spy Hunter II had going for it was the decision to place a bezel over the screen in order to divide it into two halves.  It wasn't a good idea, but Bally at least deserves some credit for trying something different with it.  Unfortunately, the rest of the game is just not very good at all.

SP2 was such a blown opportunity, if they had just kept the original top-down game play and had made it two player with different special weapons, more variety to the roads, maybe the flying level they wanted to do in the first and more enemies I think it had the potential to be a huge hit. But instead they had to get cute, try to show off and reinvent the wheel then ended up putting out something completely unplayable, if it had been up to me I wouldn't have bothered releasing it and made them start over from scratch, the original code would have become a grail for MAME of unreleased ROM curiosities. 

[+x=usr(1536)]

3 minutes ago, Tornadoboy said:

SP2 was such a blown opportunity, if they had just kept the original top-down game play and had made it two player with different special weapons, more variety to the roads, maybe the flying level they wanted to do in the first and more enemies I think it had the potential to be a huge hit.

Agreed: the potential was there, but Bally really dropped the ball with what they ultimately released.  I'd really love to see what location test reports looked like for it, as well as any player interviews - particularly if the players were fans of the original game.  How it made it to production has always been a mystery to me.

3 minutes ago, Tornadoboy said:

But instead they had to get cute, try to show off and reinvent the wheel then ended up putting out something completely unplayable, if it had been up to me I wouldn't have bothered releasing it and made them start over from scratch, the original code would have become a grail for MAME of unreleased ROM curiosities. 

That's the thing: Pac-Man and Donkey Kong prove that it is possible to release decent sequels that aren't just total rehashes of the original game, but still retain certain of the mechanics that made the original great.  Bally definitely didn't do that here.

[Justin De Lucia]

Jeez, an awful lot about this game came up in the last two months. First talks about getting the game into arcades around the world and now we have full gameplay footage and a music rip.

I do wonder how they plan to reproduce and distribute Marble Madness II, considering copyrights, getting good CRT's, and everything else involved with reproducing the hardware. Plus the title would only feel natural in retro arcades not part of larger chains.

[Tornadoboy]

1 hour ago, Justin De Lucia said:

Jeez, an awful lot about this game came up in the last two months. First talks about getting the game into arcades around the world and now we have full gameplay footage and a music rip.

I do wonder how they plan to reproduce and distribute Marble Madness II, considering copyrights, getting good CRT's, and everything else involved with reproducing the hardware. Plus the title would only feel natural in retro arcades not part of larger chains.

I have absolutely no first hand knowledge of any of it but I wouldn't be surprised if they worked out a deal with the copyright owners and are cutting them in for some royalties, which would make sense as it wasn't making them any money just sitting in oblivion like it was and if they want to do something else with it in the future this will garner some attention, after all it's a game which outside the collector's community few know even exists. As far as the hardware they're simply converting existing boards they purchased so there's really no copyrights involved in that as they're just reusing existing boards they own and in a way that isn't infringing on the original board's game copyright. I imagine it's like buying new cars, doing major enhancements on them then reselling, that may sound like splitting hairs but I'm willing to bet that's how it shakes out.

 

As far as CRTs? Maybe they found a stash of new old stock somewhere or they're just using rebuilt ones, as long as they're not pretending they are brand new there's nothing wrong with it.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Tornadoboy

[Justin De Lucia]

Hopefully WB Games or whoever else owns the rights to Atari Games/Midway's old titles doesn't try to put a stop to any of this (considering they only have interest in Mortal Kombat above all else these days).

 

 

[negative1]

1 hour ago, Justin De Lucia said:

Hopefully WB Games or whoever else owns the rights to Atari Games/Midway's old titles doesn't try to put a stop to any of this (considering they only have interest in Mortal Kombat above all else these days).

 

 

I'm not worried. Atari has been putting out a lot of titles lately.

In fact, they're licensing out prototypes and other games to arcade 1up.

 

I can see them making a marble madness 1, and 2 machine if they wanted to.

 

later

-1

[Justin De Lucia]

Akka Arrh was made before Atari split. Marble Madness was made by Atari Games (the arcade division) then they got absorbed into Midway alongside Williams, then further absorbed into WB when midway went out of business, taking all the Atari Games titles Midway had the rights to with them.

 

Arcade1up recently announced a Mortal Kombat machine with some Midway/Atari Games/Williams but there's no Marble Madness and I think Akka Arrh was only in some of their machines because it was dumped and made available online.

 

That said I wonder where/how you'll be able to order a Marble Madness II board/cabinet once they go into production.

[negative1]

On 1/5/2022 at 1:02 AM, Justin De Lucia said:

Akka Arrh was made before Atari split. Marble Madness was made by Atari Games (the arcade division) then they got absorbed into Midway alongside Williams, then further absorbed into WB when midway went out of business, taking all the Atari Games titles Midway had the rights to with them.

 

Arcade1up recently announced a Mortal Kombat machine with some Midway/Atari Games/Williams but there's no Marble Madness and I think Akka Arrh was only in some of their machines because it was dumped and made available online.

 

That said I wonder where/how you'll be able to order a Marble Madness II board/cabinet once they go into production.

they paid for the license to use Akka Arrh, and it will be in the upcoming Centipede re-release, along with leaderboards (WIFI).

 

so they aren't just taking random ROMS that they found online.

 

later

-1

[Justin De Lucia]

On 1/6/2022 at 4:28 AM, negative1 said:

they paid for the license to use Akka Arrh, and it will be in the upcoming Centipede re-release, along with leaderboards (WIFI).

 

so they aren't just taking random ROMS that they found online.

If that's the case, then it's only a coincidence that they're now putting Akka Arrh in the Arcade1up machines years following the rom dumps online.

[Rik1138]

I think they licensed the game because the ROMs were suddenly available. I doubt the rights holder (WB now?) had copies of them at all, so without ROMs, there's nothing to license except a name hardly anyone knows.

Once the ROMs got leaked, they now had something tangible to license, and a lot of awareness of the game due to the news of how they were supposedly released.

Same with MM2, as I assume the game is officially being licensed, the people making the full size games have access to the ROMs.  If they didn't, again there would be nothing to license except the name and maybe trying to code their own version of the game based on game play videos or something.

 

It is, essentially, the release of (or access to) the ROMs that makes any licensing possible.

If the MM2 ROMs were released publicly, then maybe Arcade1Up would license it and release a MM + MM2 cabinet.  But if they can't get the ROMs, there's no point...

[negative1]

9 hours ago, Rik1138 said:

I think they licensed the game because the ROMs were suddenly available. I doubt the rights holder (WB now?) had copies of them at all, so without ROMs, there's nothing to license except a name hardly anyone knows.

Once the ROMs got leaked, they now had something tangible to license, and a lot of awareness of the game due to the news of how they were supposedly released.

Same with MM2, as I assume the game is officially being licensed, the people making the full size games have access to the ROMs.  If they didn't, again there would be nothing to license except the name and maybe trying to code their own version of the game based on game play videos or something.

 

It is, essentially, the release of (or access to) the ROMs that makes any licensing possible.

If the MM2 ROMs were released publicly, then maybe Arcade1Up would license it and release a MM + MM2 cabinet.  But if they can't get the ROMs, there's no point...

Why wouldn't they have the ROMs. They've had maze invaders and tons of other prototypes, and those have been put on sale through the Atari Vault releases.

 

Drivers for all these prototypes have been in MAME for decades, including Marble Madness 2.

 

There just wasn't any real interest in the games up until now.

 

later

-1

Edited January 8, 2022 by negative1

[Rik1138]

2 hours ago, negative1 said:

Why wouldn't they have the ROMs. They've had maze invaders and tons of other prototypes, and those have been put on sale through the Atari Vault releases.

 

Drivers for all these prototypes have been in MAME for decades, including Marble Madness 2.

 

There just wasn't any real interest in the games up until now.

 

later

-1

Because they've long since stopped caring about any of these games (or at least, went through a period of time that they didn't care).  Atari got rid of almost everything to do with their arcade business I think before Midway bought them.  All of their arcade motherboard archive (including prototypes), all the source code, artwork, documentation, etc was either trashed, or possibly saved by Scott and other Atari collectors.  Most of the source code that wasn't printed on paper was on largely unreadable 8-inch floppy discs that no one in the company even knew what to do with.

Atari doesn't have copies of Marble Madness 2, Scott had to go to the only known existing source of the ROMs at the time- Flanagan.  No one at Atari had the code, just a couple of boards with no ROMs.  It seems a few other working boards have shown up in collections over the years (assuming Scott didn't sell his), but I don't think a single copy of Akka Arrh has been found outside of Scott's...  (Although I just read there is a 3rd game somewhere...)

 

Same with Atari having Akka Arrh code, although the boards he got from Atari at least had the ROMs.

 

Obviously Atari (or the rights holder) has (or acquired) some of these games back, or maybe still always had some, but they don't have it all. (Not sure about Maze Invaders, was that already released in the MAME world, or was that Atari Vault release the first we ever saw it for public consumption?) But they got rid of a LOT of it.  I'm not sure what someone like Scott would do if Atari now asked him for a copy of the ROMs so they could release a legit version of it (and thus, cause the ROMs to be released publicly, because someone would get them out of whatever they released...).  Not sure if he'd be legally obligated to provide them, or financially convinced, or would just do it...

 

The drivers in MAME for the prototypes that Scott owns exist because Scott wanted to be able to emulate the games he has, and provided them the ROMs to write the drivers.  Of course, under the agreement that they can't distribute the ROMs.  Same with other games like Primal Rage 2 and Beavis and Butthead, etc.  The only way these games will be licensed is for the licensing company to get the ROMs from private collectors.  If none will share or sell, they can't get them from whoever owns the Atari copyrights because they don't actually have copies themselves.

(Maybe they have copies of some of the games, so that may not be a blanket statement.  But considering that Atari was going to throw away 3-4 semi trucks full of their arcade history tells me there was a time when they didn't care about it, AT ALL.  If it wasn't saved by collectors or employees, a lot of it is gone...)

 

But even now, there isn't really 'interest'.  If Arcade1Up sold just an Akka Arrh cabinet, they probably wouldn't have sold more than a dozen...  For the most part, no one has hard of it, knows what it is, or cares.  But, add it to a game that will sell and is well known, like the 'Pedes and other popular track ball games, and you get some instant free publicity.

What would have been 'Oh look, Arcade1Up released Centipede/Millipede/etc, whee...' just another 1Up for the collection, instantly became 'OH MY GOD, LOOK AT THIS!' to every game site around posting that a rare, possibly 'stolen', prototype game was included.  That wasn't included out of 'interest in the game', it was pure marketing.

Centipede's release wouldn't have made a headline anywhere, but including a game with that kind of controversy made it a headline everywhere.  Hell, it even got into some print newspapers (they still exist), although only very small articles there...

 

Just like if they wanted to release a Marble Madness cabinet.  Just MM would get the usual 'Cool, I loved that game', but if they could also say 'Someone broke into Flanagan's house, stole his game and dumped his ROMs, so we are including MM2 as well!' that's going to make headlines on EVERY classic gaming site on the 'net.

Whether the game is any good or not, everyone with even a casual interest in MM would go after the machine.

The only reason the current MM2 arcade cabinet 'promise' isn't drumming up more interest is that no one can really verify it'll happen, and by their own admission, 'it won't be cheap'.  So really, of no interest to the casual home user as they will never see it.  Most 'normal' arcades won't even care, so it won't be playable to most of the country anyway...  At best, it just means a few replica-cabinets in the great niche arcades around the country and on more permanent display.