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Retro Freak firmware update


Newsdee

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Update for you all.

 

We all know and love the ibuffalo snes controller. I got one in, and I'm glad I got one before prices inevitably rise on it.

 

However, I wanted to let you sms and nes loving players know they also make a regular famicom controller. And it even has enough buttons and triggers to play snes games. I personally don't use it as such, I like it just for older two button console games, but it's a great alternative if you were disappointed with retro link's nes pad alternative.

 

If the button placement for b and a felt weird to you when using an snes style pad, this is perfect for you. And the dpad is just like a stock famicom.

Edited by MotoRacer
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Update for you all.

 

We all know and love the ibuffalo snes controller. I got one in, and I'm glad I got one before prices inevitably rise on it.

 

However, I wanted to let you sms and nes loving players know they also make a regular famicom controller. And it even has enough buttons and triggers to play snes games. I personally don't use it as such, I like it just for older two button console games, but it's a great alternative if you were disappointed with retro link's nes pad alternative.

 

If the button placement for b and a felt weird to you when using an snes style pad, this is perfect for you. And the dpad is just like a stock famicom.

Is the d-pad on the ibuffalo SNES also just like an SNES d-pad? How do they compare?

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I'm wondering if I could do USB to NeoGeo (the opposite of the usual way); so far I've only seen it in a bigger PC to JAMMA board which is a bit overkill.

You'll need to look up a schematic for Neo Geo. Dpad + 4 buttons. There's also a "mod" schematic that adds buttons 5, 6, P1, start, and coin insert button to the Neo Geo layout. Might as well add those connections as well even if you don't use them.

 

Get a male DB-15 connector, a USB cable, and a cheap enclosure to put them in. You'll need to identify the ground pin on the Neo Geo controller. Connect that to ground on the USB encoder. Then identify the pins for each button on the controller and connect them to the appropriate pins on the USB encoder.

 

Bam, instant USB adapter. As a bonus, virtually any MAME USB stick could be hard wired for Neo Geo style pinout. If you have multiple circuit boards connected to the buttons, they all need have common ground and share the same VCC an GND connections in order to work properly.

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It needs a proper USB host to parse HID data and then map buttons to the desired pinout in DB15 Neo Geo or DB9 Atari or Genesis (with multiplexing). Ideally one could also customize buttom mapping by USB PID/VID as well.

 

Closest I can find are some Arduino USB shields, but there might be cheaper solutions...

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So I talked with someone over at Play Asia and apparently Cyber Gadget does not make and sell a separate stock controller and Play Asia cannot get the controller adapter from any of their suppliers. So I guess we are stuck with buy another premium console to get that second controller adapter. Nope.

 

I do hope Cyber Gadget does start pumping the controller adapters out again, but not holding my breath.

Edited by LiqMat
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They sell them at Cyber Gadget's online store, as well as extra controllers and the Game Gear adapter. Can't read Japanese but maybe they ship internationally...

 

Ok. Great! Time to hit Google Translate.

 

Update: Yeah, unfortunately it is impossible to get it shipped to the states via their website as none of their forms allow this. Frustrating to see the products for sale, yet can't quite reach them. They have the stock controller available in black only right now and the controller adapter appears to be available as well. I contacted Cyber Gadget directly. Let's hope they understand English.

Edited by LiqMat
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To be fair, at the exact moment I placed the order, the Premium bundle was $244.99 It has since been reduced to $224.99. That's a $20 price drop and $55 extra for the controller adapter does sound a bit more reasonable at this point. Configuring multiple USB devices with different mappings to work with the Retro Freak is a pain, plus the Retro Freak does not appear to differentiate between one "Other USB device" and the next. So for those of us with multiple USB controller adapters for various consoles, there is the issue of selecting the appropriate preset for each controller prior to gameplay, and means changing the preset for each different controller used. Some people may not like the PS3 Dpad, but I think it's fine and if you've only got the standard model but have spare PS3 controllers laying around, they work with zero configuration and a HOME menu button, as does the stock Retro Freak controller.

 

I got presets for my Cthulhu based MAME controller set up with it and the 8bitdo NES30 set up, and so I am probably done with messing around with presets for now. When I can buy a spare controller adapter cheaply and affordably, I will get one. I can also see why even people who ordered the premium bundle will want an extra controller adapter or spare Retro Freak controller for multiplayer. The Retro Freak controller is good and feels a lot like the Wii Classic Controller in terms of build quality (without the thumbsticks), but I totally understand if you want to use original controllers with this thing. At the time I ordered, the $75 premium (now down to $55 premium thanks to the $20 price drop on Play Asia) for a simple controller adapter was too much to ask.

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I just got an SFC30 from 8bitdo, so did a quick comparison the iBufallo and an original controller.

 

The iBufallo is slightly thinner and lighter than the original (50g vs. 60g), whereas the SFC30 is thicker and heavier (90g). Width seems to be the same for the three.

 

Buttons of the original and iBuffalo are pretty silent, but buttons of the 8bitdo can be heard a bit of you tap them strongly.

 

For the d-pad, the SFC30 needs a bit more pressure than the other two, but still feels solid. The original feels a bit more "mushy" than the other two though.

 

Gameplay wise I haven't used the SFC30 yet but the iBuffalo doesn't bother me in any way other than feeling a bit lighter.

 

Build quality of both USB controllers is fantastic. The SFC30 even feels more solid than the original but that might be subjectibe impressiom from the weight :)

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I just got an SFC30 from 8bitdo...

 

All of their Bluetooth controllers now work with the RetroN 5. It will be nice when they enable that same functionality for the Retro Freak (presumably through a USB dongle, although I suppose they could release a new controller that comes bundled with one).

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I just got an SFC30 from 8bitdo, so did a quick comparison the iBufallo and an original controller.

 

 

All of their Bluetooth controllers now work with the RetroN 5. It will be nice when they enable that same functionality for the Retro Freak (presumably through a USB dongle, although I suppose they could release a new controller that comes bundled with one).

Assuming the SFC30 is the same controller as the NES30, you can simply use the provided microUSB cable that came with the controller for Retro Freak. I have the NES30 and it is nice. It's the rectangular form factor of the NES controller but with the SNES diamond and shoulder buttons.

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Assuming the SFC30 is the same controller as the NES30, you can simply use the provided microUSB cable that came with the controller for Retro Freak. I have the NES30 and it is nice. It's the rectangular form factor of the NES controller but with the SNES diamond and shoulder buttons.

 

We're talking about it being wireless.

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Atari can't stop it, so that's not why.

 

I suspect you don't have to look much past the Famicom cartridge port and the lack of direct support for NES cartridges as to why it's absent. This is a Japanese product produced with the Japanese marketplace in mind. Atari's presence in that country was minimal at best so why would they cover it?

 

And sadly for many classic gamers, they think videogaming started in 1985. While many Atari fans appreciate the glory years of Nintendo & Sega, many potential customers of this product hold little interest in something like the VCS.

 

Our best bet is hopefully something along these lines that's produced specifically for Atari aficionados.

Edited by Atariboy
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Yeah, it's for no other reason than some company has yet to produce a multi-system for pre-Crash consoles. There's a perception - real or imagined - that such a device wouldn't sell like the ones that are made for the popular post-Crash systems. It's important to remember that outside of the Atari 2600, no pre-Crash console broke out of the single digits in terms of millions of units sold (not even close). So it seems like for something like that to happen, it will have to come from the homebrew community. What I think we'll get first is more FPGA-based systems sans cartridge ports, which frankly should be most of the way to exactly what we'd like.

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One related possibility that might be doable for a commercial product like this that's officially distributed in the US, is the inclusion of emulators for platforms that aren't directly supported with a dedicated cartridge slot.

 

With its rom loading capabilities, it doesn't necessarily need to be able to read original cartridges. By eliminating the cartridge port and other fills, some support could possibly be justified for semi-popular American platforms that aren't perceived to be quite popular enough to justify upping their manufacturing expenses.

 

Of course, it would hinge on if Android based emulators exist that could be repurposed.

Edited by Atariboy
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One related possibility that might be doable for a commercial product like this that's officially distributed in the US, is the inclusion of emulators for platforms that aren't directly supported with a dedicated cartridge slot.

 

With its rom loading capabilities, it doesn't necessarily need to be able to read original cartridges. By eliminating the cartridge port and other fills, some support could possibly be justified for semi-popular American platforms that aren't perceived to be quite popular enough to justify upping their manufacturing expenses.

 

Of course, it would hinge on if Android based emulators exist that could be repurposed.

 

To be fair, though, you can already do that on any cheap Android device, tablet or otherwise, and they all have controller support. The only challenge for the end user is to install the emulator, and that's not exactly a challenge (for either solution you still need to supply your own ROMs). I suppose the only real value add would in fact be the cartridge port and a built-in ability to use original controllers.

 

Of course, there's also the Raspberry Pi, which can similarly do all of that. I don't have the link handy, but I believe someone is offering a turn key solution on here for exactly that (I think they're repurposing Flashback shells).

 

You know, I've never tried it with my own Retrode, but I believe you can use that with the necessary adapter to read all kinds of other cartridges, including the Atari 2600, and that supposedly works directly with various emulators. So someone could probably combine the various solutions into a single offering if they don't want to necessarily engineer it all from scratch.

Edited by Bill Loguidice
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You know, I've never tried it with my own Retrode, but I believe you can use that with the necessary adapter to read all kinds of other cartridges, including the Atari 2600

 

According to this page it works but you have to build your own adapter:

http://www.retrode.org/plug-in-adapters/

 

There is a project to build a Retrode + an RPi in a box (by EvilDragon who's producing the latest Retrode batch). That looks like a convenient solution although the software side is that what will sell it to me (I'd like a turnkey solution and ideally a version where I can install my own RPi2).

 

Beyond that I'm a big fan of FPGAs; the MiST and Arcade Replay both have good support for pre-crash consoles. The Atari VCS is not perfect, but Atari5200/800, Coleco, Astrocade and VideoPac work great (note: these cores are often 3rd party projects so might be available for other boards as well). You can google for videos to get an idea on how they work.

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Now that this gets us past the rom loading boogeyman that Hyperkin perpetuated, how long until the Retron 6 appears that dumps these files to SD card and allows you to load roms directly?

 

I bet it happens by this Fall in response to this product. It's not part of their business model to be one and done since there's no revenue stream from a Retron 5 customer after the initial purchase. So they have to find some way to get a portion of their Retron 5 base to purchase their next product while attracting folks that didn't invest in the previous clone system.

 

I suspect this will be part of their gameplan now.

 

I suppose the only real value add would in fact be the cartridge port and a built-in ability to use original controllers.

 

I'm mainly thinking of convenience here for the gamer since if you already have something like this plugged into your tv for your classic Nintendo & Sega gaming with your favorite USB controller, there's no value in having to have a 2nd emulator box out just to play a popular classic American console like the 2600 if you don't have to.

 

And from the manufacturer's end, they're able to list that support on the box to get the attention of fans of whatever platforms they covered in that manner. Even if it's perhaps a bit misleading since the level of support isn't even among platforms, it's still covered here.

 

And it's already a bit confusing at a glance. Some systems can be played directly while some require a cartridge adapter and are otherwise only supported via rom loading. May as well have a 3rd option that's exclusively rom loading, if that's what it takes to get some classic American platforms on it.

Edited by Atariboy
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I think somebody mentioned in the RVGS thread that Atari was rather against anything emulating their hardware that isn't vetoed by them. That rules out any kind of official support in the US, and elsewhere it might be too old school already :P

Oh poppycock!

 

Atari flashbacks exist. Secondly, Nintendo is known for it's draconian protection of IP, along with Disney and Apple ranks right up there with the number of lawsuits and C&D they have churned out over the years. One thing Nintendo has been unable to stop is unauthorized hardware clones of it's retro systems. Design patents on the hardware lasts about 20 years, so once the patents are expired, third party companies are free to reproduce them at will. Game content is another issue entirely, being covered by copyrights which last a minimum of 90 years.

 

The reason why Atari clones have not been produced is twofold. Firstly, Atari isn't considered cool and popular by "hipster" collectors, therefore demand for the systems is low. Companies like Hyperkin etc won't make an Atari clone because it won't be profitable. Secondly, all these "system on a chip" clones are being manufactured in the far east, where Atari was never popular or successful, being largely a western console. So Eastern engineers have no reason whatsoever to produce a viable Atari clone chip unless a western company commissions it.

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Atari flashbacks exist.

 

Flashbacks with an SD card don't exist because Atari won't allow them to, so far. Sega is apparently more lenient so there is that portable Megadrive with SD.

 

Some guys on Youtube seem to have jailbroken the Freak; once the methods gets out it should be possible to add any emulator to it.

 

But I'd prefer an FPGA version (ideally with carts); here's HERO running in my MIST:

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Flashbacks with an SD card don't exist because Atari won't allow them to, so far. Sega is apparently more lenient so there is that portable Megadrive with SD.

 

Some guys on Youtube seem to have jailbroken the Freak; once the methods gets out it should be possible to add any emulator to it.

 

But I'd prefer an FPGA version (ideally with carts); here's HERO running in my MIST:

Will Stay Frosty 2 or Space Rocks work on it? Otherwise, I'm sticking to my harmony cart. :D

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