5200 games - on the hard side? Or is it the controllers?

[Amityville315]

My solution seems to have arrived today. I scored a competition pro joystick off Ebay and man, I'm already thrilled with it! The accuracy is great for the 5200. On first try at Megamania I was able to make it through to the second round of tumbling dice. I even tried it on Super Cobra and it navigated through the tight tunnels with no problem. I think it is superior to the wico.

 

Only drawback I can see is that the second fire button is a bit of a reach. However, maybe it could be rewired to make those both face the left side so it could be more thumb accessable.

 

Thus far, I'm very pleased. Joystick seems very solidly built as well.

[Lynxpro]

My solution seems to have arrived today. I scored a competition pro joystick off Ebay and man, I'm already thrilled with it! The accuracy is great for the 5200. On first try at Megamania I was able to make it through to the second round of tumbling dice. I even tried it on Super Cobra and it navigated through the tight tunnels with no problem. I think it is superior to the wico.

 

Only drawback I can see is that the second fire button is a bit of a reach. However, maybe it could be rewired to make those both face the left side so it could be more thumb accessable.

 

Thus far, I'm very pleased. Joystick seems very solidly built as well.

 

One of our fellow members has a Competition Pro rewired in the manner you mentioned. It works well. I think he even said he bought it that way when he bought his 5200 at a thrift store back in the 90s. I've used it at last year's Davis Atari Party and it was great. They should've made 'em that way from the start.

[+darryl1970]

The only issue is that the Atari 5200 games were AS CHALLENGING as the arcade. The 2600 games were dumbed down and easier. The NES games were easier than the arcade often. Likewise, the 7800 games were often slowed down and weakened.

 

One example is to look at how man barrels DK throws on the arcade version, NES, 7800, and 5200 (8-bit port). The arcade and 5200 have many barrels, fireballs, etc. I have a DK arcade machine, and it rarely gets the love it deserves, because my guests have been pampered by the Atari, Coleco, and Nintendo home versions. The 7800 and NES are even limited in the number of barrels, fireballs, etc. Likewise, the ColecoVision, NES, and 7800 version of DK Jr have 2 birds and 2 snapjaws on the lock screen (if I remember -- I know Coleco limits that much). The arcade and 5200 have 5 snapjaws and many birds.

 

A LONG time ago, I read somewhere that games were easier in Japan. I think the problem is that the 5200 was made to be the arcade experience. They built it for the people who were used to fast-moving arcade games. People who grew up ONLY playing 2600, ColecoVision, and even 7800 games, who did not frequent the arcades, are probably taken back by the 5200 pace and number of enemies. However, even some 5200 games were easier than the arcade.

 

I think Defender was easier on the 5200 than the arcade. Centipede was more challenging, but not crazy harder. Berzerk was right on. Pengo was easier, but the arcade was RIDICULOUSLY hard! The 2600 and 7800 version seem to never end for me. I get bored and shut them off.

 

I think it has to do with the condition of the player. Also, the 5200 sticks were NEVER an issue on any games, EXCEPT for their reliability. My friends and I had no issues with them. In fact, I own the Wico centering sticks, and I prefer the stock sticks. I think the media bias just lead people to think the sticks were difficult. The games are more challenging, so the sticks got the blame, instead of people picking up their game to arcade level. Then, when they started breaking, there was more bias that kind of blindly confirmed the first issue.

 

The 5200 was just actually more arcade like at home. It was challenge that one would get at the arcade!

Edited January 13, 2016 by darryl1970

[kiwilove]

One game I like to discuss in detail about bringing this arcade game home - would be Defender. The original version is notoriously difficult to play with buttons only but I think it would be the only way to play it, as it was designed this way.

I was very disappointed with the A8 version of Defender - but I guess I was always going to be disappointed with any home version. I thought Dropzone delivered the Defender game admirably and would have liked to be able to play it's predecessor - which has never shown up anywhere. I believe Archer took a demo of it around with him - his own version of Defender.

The 5200 version of Defender is supposedly better than the A8 version - but still I expect to be disappointed by it, because it's still not up to Dropzone standard, I would guess.

Has anyone tried putting together their own button version of Defender for home use?

 

I do think the coin-op Defender arcade machine will always be sought after - being such a unique and very special classic game. It has awesome sound. Hopefully it hasn't been bastardised into a joystick controlled one.

 

Harvey

[+darryl1970]

One game I like to discuss in detail about bringing this arcade game home - would be Defender. The original version is notoriously difficult to play with buttons only but I think it would be the only way to play it, as it was designed this way.

I was very disappointed with the A8 version of Defender - but I guess I was always going to be disappointed with any home version. I thought Dropzone delivered the Defender game admirably and would have liked to be able to play it's predecessor - which has never shown up anywhere. I believe Archer took a demo of it around with him - his own version of Defender.

The 5200 version of Defender is supposedly better than the A8 version - but still I expect to be disappointed by it, because it's still not up to Dropzone standard, I would guess.

Has anyone tried putting together their own button version of Defender for home use?

 

I do think the coin-op Defender arcade machine will always be sought after - being such a unique and very special classic game. It has awesome sound. Hopefully it hasn't been bastardised into a joystick controlled one.

 

Harvey

 

Harvey,

 

A couple things that could skew my point of view:

1) I couldn't play the arcade control scheme when I was younger. Find it intriguing today!

2) I saw the 5200 version first and LIKE the 5200 controllers.

 

I DO recall that Defender had a single joystick for up and down only. Everything else was a button.

 

Now.. When I saw the 5200 version, I was amazed at how close it was. The sounds were SO close. The laser trailed off, just like the arcade...

Explosions BURST apart...

Enemies formed in from all sides...

 

I was SO impressed!

 

For ME.....

The 5200 control was AWESOME:

 

Smart Bomb: Top button on controller

Shoot: Bottom button

Hyperspace: Press any keypad button (palm of hand was already resting on it!)

 

Bad news is that I didn't see a difference between Defender on the 5200 and A8 otherwise.

SO, I don't know if I just liked the controls, or if I just wasn't a very good Defender Arcade connoisseur.

 

I didn't like having to reach for the keyboard on the A8's. That was as distracting as trying to reach for the 7800 Pause Button, especially for such a high-paced game.

 

I will have to check out drop zone first chance I get.

 

I also searched and found the incomplete prototype of Defender for the A8.

Not bad, but not as complete and lower resolution.

 

--Darryl

 

[kiwilove]

My own recollection is that Defender upon it's initial release did not have a joystick of any kind present at all, that's why there were so many buttons present. And a joystick was probably added later - to make the game easier to play than previously.

It doesn't look like Archer McLean's Defender game is available - which I'll guess must have looked and played a lot better than the Atari cart version.

There is a rip off of Defender - titled Mayday - instead of a dark screen, it went the other way - it's sounds were Defender like from my recall.

If you were not spoiled by the arcade game - then I think you may be satisfied with the Atari home version.

 

It is a bit of a surprise when you recount how you were impressed by something back in the day, but when you view it now - it looks so much cruder and jerkier - some titles on the SNES and PlayStation consoles come to mind on this kind of recall.

 

Harvey

[+Cafeman]

I don't know where Harvey first played Defender, but every coin-op Defender I ever saw, it always had the joystick for vertical movement only. The Reverse button changed directions from left/right, and Thrust moved your ship. Then you had the fire / smart bomb / hyperspace buttons. I can't imagine playing with no joystick. Games like Asteroids and Space Invaders didn't have a joystick, by way of comparison.

 

It is certainly not surprising to me that Darryl was impressed by 5200 Defender back in the day. So was I , for the same reasons. Avid 2600 players were used to getting severely compromised ports. So the 5200 versions - including Defender - were freaking AMAZING. We didn't notice the semi-choppiness that is evident when watching a modern Youtube video of 5200 Defender. The rezzing in of enemies and graphics carnage were treats that we never got on console games. (5200 Space Dungeon has similar pixel carnage, I always loved that). The only game I can think of on 2600 that had enemies rezzing-into the screen, was Imagic Demon Attack, and yes we were blown away by that effect too.

 

I can take 5200's slight choppiness a lot more than (just to compare) Colecovision Zaxxon's choppy scrolling, which takes a while for me to adjust to.

[kiwilove]

The only time I spent some time playing the Defender coin-op was in Dunedin, New Zealand - around 1982 or even 1981? I don't think it would have been directly imported from the USA.

It may have been a New Zealand company - or even an Australian one that may have assembled the cabinet.

I can only remember it had a huge cluster of buttons - the ones on the left being white that had to do with the ship's movements - with the firing button on the right. I forget what other buttons were on the right.

These were big buttons that had some 'play' in them, ie. they went down a bit.

Looking at photos of the panel of Defender - the one I remember is nothing like it.

 

I would guess that importing a proper Defender cabinet from the US would have been very expensive - so it's very probable that the company would import the parts and assemble it over in this part of the world - at a cheaper price in a different cabinet. I recall one time seeing the Zaxxon game with the title of Jackson - but it was only the one time I saw it like that.

 

Harvey

[+Defender_2600]

 

One example is to look at how man barrels DK throws on the arcade version, NES, 7800, and 5200 (8-bit port). The arcade and 5200 have many barrels, fireballs, etc. ... .... The 7800 and NES are even limited in the number of barrels, fireballs, etc.

 

...5200 have many barrels, fireballs, etc. ... The 7800 and NES are even limited in the number of barrels, fireballs, etc. ...Hmmm..

 

...Here a comparison 'up-to-date' :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+darryl1970]

Yes! Donkey Kong Arcade 7800 is Awesome.

 

The handicaps I spoke of were not hardware limitations.

[AtariKid81]

For me, the controllers suck the life out of great games. The cheaply made, inaccurate, analog sticks, don't make the games harder - just incredibly frustrating!

Using them, remind me of an '82 Dodge Ram Charger, I once owned. The steering linkage was completely worn out, thus I had to make constant correction to the steering wheel. After 10 miles or so, I was worn out. The 5200 controller requires the same effort, in order to keep your "player" moving in the correct direction.

This is unfortunate, because most 5200 games feel like they could be prototype versions of the actual arcade game. They are challenging, vibrant and exciting. Honestly, Atari 7800 games fall flat in comparison.

Edited January 27, 2016 by AtariKid81