Andromeda Stardust Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I sure don't. It's like a circus sideshow. Something to read for a few good laughs. Amy is Mike Kennedy. Sonic is Atariage... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 If they spent as much time and energy on engineering as they do marketing and hype, we'd have a 10x cool awesomely awesome system already. Yeah. I still don't understand the visit to Toy Fair if they're doing a Kickstarter. You can reach unlimited numbers of people with a web campaign. You can reach ... a different audience than the crowdfunders whose money you want ... at Toy Fair, a closed industry event. I suppose someone thinks it adds legitimacy to their team and product if it's shown at an a closed industry event. Or maybe Coleco happened to have booth space anyway and it was a matter of convenience. Or could it be some kind of misplaced nostalgia, if the Sega Genesis had its first coming out party at Toy Fair? Convenience + nostalgia would be consistent with the use of the Atari Jaguar case molds. Someone in the Facebook thread said: Great, an announcement of an announcement for a campaign to announce the system. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Or maybe Coleco happened to have booth space anyway and it was a matter of convenience. This. Because this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) Yeah the toy fair expo makes no sense. If they have a demo station then inviting the public to try it is probably more ideal for a project that's on Kickstarter. Especially since the toy fair people are trying to make the show more open to the public. http://www.amny.com/entertainment/play-fair-things-to-do-at-the-toy-fair-offshoot-1.11448738 Toy Fair, the long-running industry convention, has long been closed off to the general public. But this year, it’s inviting people in for a sister show called Play Fair 2016. Taking over the north hall of the Javits Center, Play Fair is described as a “celebration of play and entertainment for all ages” on the show’s website. There will be exhibits, toy demos, celebrities, show exclusives and more. .... Play Fair runs from Feb. 13-14 at Javits North at the Javits Center at 655 W. 34th St., playfairny.com, tickets, $30 per session; $145 for weekend. Family packs available as well. Most likely they just hitched a ride with COLECO. After all, Mike's console won't be the only product at the COLECO booth according to the guy at River West Brands. The reaction from the industry crowd is what I want to see when they make their announcement. Can you imagine how awkward it is to announce your Kickstarter at an industry event that's intended for retailers and distributors? It's like passing around a collection plate in the middle of a board meeting. Maybe Mike is making history? The first Kickstarter project to come to the Toy Fair!! .... and maybe the last ... two for one!!! That's PR gold! Edited February 10, 2016 by StopDrop&Retro 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 The information avalanche just keeps rollin' along... guess they don't want to give away too much before The Big Reveal™. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bretthorror Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I never had any doubt that Mike was piggy backing on the Coleco guys for the toy fair gig, and rightfully so. He's got about as many connections as any one of us, he's gotta do whatever he can do to get exposed anywhere. Basically no one wants anything to do with him. The thing that irritates me the most is they couldn't clarify just what the deal with Coleco AND a Kickstarter campaign entails. Like will the system live on if the Kickstarter fails? Are they just using Kickstarter for primary funds? is this supposed to be a corporate idea or a down to earth, chummy homebrew type deal where we're all in this together? I just don't know what to think of this system and there are infinitely more questions than answers. Part of me would feel like a mark to still contribute to their KS because of how shitty Mike has dealt with the entire situation. We all realize they have to keep some shit under wraps, but I see little to no reason on their second crowd funding campaign that they couldn't be giving people updates and clarifying some things that have nothing to do with games or hardware or just be cordial with people. And yes, I am aware big companies Kickstart shit now and it's not out of the norm, but still I think they could spill the beans on whether or not the system's release depends on the KS or not. When the main thing your detractors get upset with you with are talking about shells, colors, variations, exclusives, etc... don't fucking show off stupid stamping videos and tease more of the same shit they hate. There are confirmed games for the system now, all Mike has to do is talk a mile a minute about them instead of dumb shit and people would be happier and he'd build hype for the machine. Plus, how many people at this toy fair are going to have any fucking clue what the Chameleon is or its history to ask him about the relevant shit? Whatever he does announce at the toy fair is still going to be just the tip of the iceberg of the dozens upon dozens of things that need to be addressed about the system before anyone is going to drop a dime. Especially if our theories have come true and he goes Android with cart load times, etc and goes back on shit that was so fucking important according to him just a couple months ago. Unless the system is Ouya cheap (never happen), he's still gonna have to face the music. At least take your time and work your way into it rather than diving in headfirst. They kept everything quiet as shit before the IGG as well and look how that turned out. When the shit hit the fan, the crew was overwhelmed and it not only split the group but left Mike looking like a ranting, lying douchebag because it was too much for anyone to address at once. Let's imagine come Saturday he launches a Kickstarter $150 w/real pack in game and KS bonuses price point and has a real prototype that works... as much positive press as that's gonna get, it's gonna get swallowed up by little things they're gonna get ripped to shreds over (shortcuts taken, people still pissed from last time, likely no actual exclusives, still a bad controller, no online, etc).Why not get the bad stuff out of the way and deal with it politely with intelligence and admit why you had to take shortcuts and then hit the toy fair on with only positive press from there on down the stretch focusing on your 100% playable proto and games? Why does Mike wanna get blistered with negative questions if anyone with knowledge of this at the toy fair in front of these potential business partners when he could clear that up and then leave it all on the table with his fun games on the proto? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Most importantly, the press will be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 What amounts to "press" is yammering stammering regurgitating bloggers.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnphase Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 is he going to hire an armored car and 2 guards to transport the chameleon to the toy fair? that would be cool as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Maybe there's some inherent problem in this whole endeavor? And the exhaust of trying to fix it manifests itself as all this skittering and skirting around the real issue. On the other hand, whatever Mike is making, it has to appeal to a tough crowd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazball Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) Lock my bet in: -It'll run Android or Linux, but locked down to their own front end, booting a cartridge will not be instantaneous If this turns out to be true, that each game will have to load instead of being instantaneous like we associate with retro cartridges, maybe the Chameleon could have a title/load screen similar in appearance to the ColecoVision. I know a lot of people hate that screen but I think it's part of the CV's charm and could be a way to mask load times. Edited February 10, 2016 by glazball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bretthorror Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I seriously wouldn't give a damn if it took a cartridge a few seconds to load at all. It'd be just the same as sitting through 5 company credits at the beginning of NBA Jam every time I played it. Normally if a fan whined about a cart loading time I'd make fun of them as nerds and call them crying titty babies, but since Mike was so adamant about it, it's on his own head and he deserves it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Carts had load times too. That's one reason that, starting with the NES era, lots of games had copyright or credit screens at the beginning. Starting with the late SNES era, you'd sometimes (rarely) see it in between stages or areas. Carts weren't a magic talisman against load times. Once again, Mike is presenting the past as something it wasn't. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I think we need to distinguish what we mean by "load times." If by "load times" we mean the time that is spent copying a program from a storage medium into memory before it can run, then systems like the Atari 2600 did indeed have zero load times, since the cartridge was seen by the system as preprogrammed memory. But if we refer to any kind of delay before we can begin playing a game as a "load time", then that could be caused by anything, including copy protection validation, copying or decompressing game data into RAM, displaying contractually-required title animations, etc. Those delays would be there whether the cartridge was the storage medium or not, so if the cartridge is being touted as the ultimate guarantee of instant playability, then that's certainly an oversimplification. It's possible to mask those delays by putting up a title screen, or something else that can load quickly and keep the player occupied while the real initialization is happening. But it will still be noticeable. As others have said, I wouldn't normally make an issue of it if the RVGS team wasn't guilty of drastically overselling the benefits of cartridge media. Speaking of which ... I wonder what's going to happen to their claim of "long-lasting" cartridge storage technology which will last practically forever. I suspect that it will succumb to the temptations of the same cheap flash storage that everyone else is already using. Then all of Mike's quotes about how flash storage isn't good for long-term use will go right down the memory hole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 On the other hand, whatever Mike is making, it has to appeal to a tough crowd. A tough, but vanishingly small crowd! There are a lot of people watching but not so many with their money out. If this turns out to be true, that each game will have to load instead of being instantaneous like we associate with retro cartridges, maybe the Chameleon could have a title/load screen similar in appearance to the ColecoVision. I know a lot of people hate that screen but I think it's part of the CV's charm and could be a way to mask load times. I remember my ColecoVision-owning friend telling me that he thought the games had that delay because they were written in FORTRAN and needed to compile on the spot or something. We know now that it was just there to show the copyright screen, but I believed it at the time. I think it's annoying because I like to get to the point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 This. Because this. Will license name for food. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 A tough, but vanishingly small crowd! There are a lot of people watching but not so many with their money out. I remember my ColecoVision-owning friend telling me that he thought the games had that delay because they were written in FORTRAN and needed to compile on the spot or something. We know now that it was just there to show the copyright screen, but I believed it at the time. I think it's annoying because I like to get to the point. Pascal, I think it was. I don't think that was the reason, though. Sorry, I don't know where I read that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazball Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) @jaybird - what I meant by "load time" referred to what others have said about having to move the game into memory. If that does have to happen (as opposed to say a true retro NES or Genesis cart which is pretty much instantaneous), I think a title/copyright screen like the original Colecovision had would be a good way to make it look retro while the game gets ready. Personally I don't mind a small wait myself, but like bretthorror said, Mike was so adamant about having none at all. And I agree, really the more important issue is cartridge longevity and durability. Edited February 10, 2016 by glazball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Pascal, I think it was. I don't think that was the reason, though. Sorry, I don't know where I read that. You're right. The BIOS is just a delay, but here's the source of the (false) rumor. Electronic Games, June 1983, page 114 in the "Game Doctor" column: Q. What causes the time delay when I put my ColecoVision cartridges in? On my old VCS the games appear right away, but with ColecoVision I have to wait about 10 seconds before the menu appears. How come? Lawrence Rice, Santa Monica, CA A: Interesting question. When Colecovision first started designing its game library, they realized they would need a lot of titles -- and quickly. For that reason -- as well as their recognition qualities and sales potential -- their initial entries were almost exclusively coin-op adaptations. Using a full-time artist and musician to create audio-graphics, their programmers worked in the PASCAL computer language. PASCAL is famous as a quick-writing programming language, and allowed the company to get almost a dozen gaming titles into stores by Christmas time -- something that could never have been done with, say, Z-80 machine code. It will be interesting, however, to see if third party software companies will try to see what this super-system can do in assembly language. The result should be fast-moving, eyeball-popping stuff! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leods Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 wow, this Quote is such bullshit. Pascal, just like any other programming language (except Java, and maybe something else I don't know about) will be compiled. Compiled means it is translated from the programming language into instructions (Computer language). Interestingly enough, Assembler is also a programming language that Needs to be compiled. It's lower Level and represents almost Computer language, but not really. But it's not like gaming "journalism" being bad is actually something new... All those awesome paper magazines weren't actually as incredible as some might make them out to be. Just like not every classic game is good, and not every cartridge based console was good either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 And I agree, really the more important issue is cartridge longevity and durability. And good games, too. Probably. Maybe. Nah. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazball Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Point taken, but this thread is about hardware speculation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 wow, this Quote is such bullshit. Pascal, just like any other programming language (except Java, and maybe something else I don't know about) will be compiled. Compiled means it is translated from the programming language into instructions (Computer language). Interestingly enough, Assembler is also a programming language that Needs to be compiled. It's lower Level and represents almost Computer language, but not really. But it's not like gaming "journalism" being bad is actually something new... All those awesome paper magazines weren't actually as incredible as some might make them out to be. Just like not every classic game is good, and not every cartridge based console was good either. I think Bill would question that answer himself if he were still around. Bill Kunkel (rip) was a great journalist as a matter of fact. Yeah he wrote the "Game Doctor" section and in this case I think he was just assuming IMO. I think he found out what they were written in and probably didn't get much more info than that and so he reported it that way. I won't defend that answer but he's definitely someone I had respect for back then for getting a lot of info behind the scenes. I mean that was basically the only legit magazine back then where you can get any sort of info on what was going on at the time. I'll give him a pass on that one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiru Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Most game consoles since 8-bit era used video RAM with indirect access, and had to load graphics into it (often uncompress as well). All ColecoVision (yeah!), Master System, Genesis, TG16, SNES games doing that, and good amount of NES games did it as well. That's kind of 'load times', just without explict loading bar. SNES also used audio RAM that had to be loaded with data as well, not too fast too. In extreme cases that could lead to noticeable load times, see Batman Forever for SNES, it even had a 'hold on' screen. I personally hid that sound loading time with a copyright screen in some SNES homebrews, and suspect that some commercial games did this as well. So, while we were calling these delays, caused by moving data from media into RAM, 'loading time' only on systems with non-solid state media (tapes, floppies, CDs), because it was explictly called like that there, similar things were exist on systems with solid-state memory as well, just not that noticeable, and thus not called so explictly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 The reaction from the industry crowd is what I want to see when they make their announcement. Can you imagine how awkward it is to announce your Kickstarter at an industry event that's intended for retailers and distributors? It's like passing around a collection plate in the middle of a board meeting. QFT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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