Coleco Chameleon .... hardware speculations?

[SnoopKatt]

Not to jump on the bandwagon but... I just thought that they would try harder to cover up that it's a SNES/clone console under there.
A power LED is something that doesn't really take any engineering know-how and it stupid simple to do (and also gives a polished, professional feel to almost any product). If there was ANYONE on the hardware design team they would've taken care of it in minutes. All you do is attach a red LED to a +5 V supply anywhere on the PCB, put it in series with a resistor (which can be calculated online with all sorts of tools, or figured out super simply), and attach the other lead of the resistor to the PCB ground. Done!

If I were trying to pull a fast one like these guys, I would've used a Retron 3, stuck a game in each slot (taking off the shells so it fits better in the Jag case), make some room for the fake game going in on the top, use a weird 3rd party controller that no one has heard of, and there you go! Still pretty easy to figure out, but at least it would take more than a quick glance.

[kevtris]

After seeing all the pictures, I suspect they are going to just release a SNES in a jaguar shell, with some kind of RGB to HDMI adapter, and a probably custom designed USB to SNES adapter. Using a clone SNES chipset is probably going to be super duper cheap, so all they have to do is add a custom form factor cartridge port, and you got yourself a "brand new" game system. This way all that needs to be done is a new PCB manufactured, and figuring out the USB host mode to SNES conversion. That'd explain why the prototype was done in a few weeks. 'course the second the games are released, someone will probably make a CC -> SNES adapter board to dump 'em using a copier or similar, or simply play them on a regular SNES.

 

Sooo, I suspect to play INTV/Coleco games on this hypothetical system, they'll just get them reprogrammed to run on the SNES. Those Intellivision TV game things used an NES on a chip, and had all reprogrammed INTV games that ran on a NOAC. I know this, because I dumped the ROMs in one of them. The games looked fairly decent, but the sound was terrible. In fact, there was next to no sound, all the games used the same 2 or 3 sound effects, and Shark! Shark! didn't even have the music or anything. (SNAFU had no music either, and all the jingles and stuff were missing as well from the other games.)

 

I guess the SD2SNES cart has an FPGA on it, so there is that. You'd think they would've bought some repro cart boards and flashed the games to those, and had different carts for each game. That way it wouldn't have been so damn obvious, and the repros wouldn't have had the fully populated SNES cart edge, and would've been missing the two "ears" which make it stick out like a sore thumb. There'd be no loading screens or anything either and it'd "seem" to be more like a real cart based system.

 

They did have 3? months, so it wouldn't have been too tough to simply design a converter PCB that converts SNES cart socket to whatever custom socket they were going to use, along with some custom cart boards to match that would accept an EPROM or flash chip. As a bonus they could've had a working power switch and power LED as well. Even so, 4 wires and some electrical tape would've gotten 'em the power switch and LED as it is. This current silly prototype could be put together in an evening by just about anyone with a dremel and hot glue gun. I was really expecting more.

[+remowilliams]

Well at least we know for sure now that a SNES can in fact run SNES games without issue.

[SoulBlazer]

Well, the 26th is my 40th birthday.

 

I guess I have something else to look forward to on that day.

[Reaperman]

This current silly prototype could be put together in an evening by just about anyone with a dremel and hot glue gun. I was really expecting more.

 

yes, and this episode is sorely tempting me to make my own "coleco chameleon proto".

The little man in the red devil costume sitting on my left shoulder wonders what it would ebay for.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Reaperman

[Gentlegamer]

In a nutshell, the Chameleon "prototype" they demoed is naught but an SNES mini stuffed inside a Jag shell. When questioned, Mike was caught blatantly lying on Facebook claiming there is an FPGA inside the proto emulating SNES hardware.

 

For starters, the Mini PCB does have Nintendo's logo stamped on it. Secondly, clones exist and are a thing now, but they don't claim to be something they're not. Clones claim to play old games. That much is true. The clone makers aren't claiming to be some radical new hardware that will revolutionize the industry, but are merely a brand new replacement for old hard to find hardware.

 

I'm figuratively LMAO.

[kevtris]

yes, and this episode is sorely tempting me to make my own "coleco chameleon proto".

 

I wonder what it would ebay for.

I seriously thought about making one too actually, since I have a snes mini here. I don't have a jaguar for a shell though. This is probably a blessing in disguise because I really should be working on some more productive endeavours :-)

[+remowilliams]

yes, and this episode is sorely tempting me to make my own "coleco chameleon proto".

 

I wouldn't recommend it, you have no idea how many minutes I had to spend on my last proto.

 

 

[Raticon]

 

I wouldn't recommend it, you have no idea how many minutes I had to spend on my last proto.

 

 

Cool system. Will it have it's own cartridges?

[phoenixdownita]

Thanks to StopDrop&Retro for saying my name the third time and to PhoenixDownita for starting it. I have patiently been following this thread, liking certain things here and there (if anyone has noticed). As SD&R stated, I have written an article around their first video. Nothing "critical" or attacking them as that is not my style. I am more interested in the underlying intent, the actions more than the words, so to speak.

 

As SD&R stated correctly, I have avoided commenting here after the rather personal attack that Mike laid out on these forums. I figure it was best to take some time away, let everyone settle down a bit and for us all to remember, it is nothing personal- it is just business.

 

I am working on articles pointing out problems that I know (with pictures to document everything). There are many. Some have been pointed out here, others are not yet discussed. The key to following these types of developments is not to tip your hand too much. There is much to discuss, much to bring up and a lot of holes in the official "company" line already and we are only on day one of the Toy Fair.

http://retrogamingmagazine.com/2016/02/13/coleco-chameleon-prototype-shown-at-closed-to-public-new-york-toy-fair-kickstarter-date-announced/

 

You called Mike a "mouthpiece" ..... LOL.

[rob_ocelot]

Setting aside the sticky issue that may be an SNES junior or some clone stuffed into a Jag mold, it has been clear all along that he is in way over his head. It would not be implausible he has been in desperationmode for quite sometime. I questioned his mental health in the original thread, and someone pointed that out again today. Denial and desperation can make people do really stupid, stupid things. You think you are doing the right thing, but to the outside, it is just making things worse. It is not inconceivable that the negative attention is enabling. Some people feed off of any kind of attention, even if it is bad.

 

I find it hard to believe that someone would spend all of this energy to pull this crap to get a few bucks out of some people that are not aware of this stuff like we are and might be suckered in. I think mental states, denial, etc is more likely.

 

What I'm finding hard to fathom is there's at least two other people in this venture who had to have (or *should have*) signed off on what was going to be displayed at the Toyfair booth, the booth layout, promo materials like flyers and business cards, etc. Seriously, none of these supposed 'industry veterans' spoke up and said, "You can't take Nintendo's IP to a huge industry trade show and pass off someone else's work as your own, you'll be pulling the feathers out of the tar within the hour"?

 

If this didn't happen then it's back to the same old bullshit of last summer where Mike was witholding important day-to-day business operational info from the other partners (eg. Kevtris pulling out). When your associates learn that one of your major hardware contributors is no longer involved (and actually never was) IN THE MIDDLE OF AN ON CAMERA INTERVIEW your company has far more problems than just cash flow.

[triverse]

 

What I'm finding hard to fathom is there's at least two other people in this venture who had to have (or *should have*) signed off on what was going to be displayed at the Toyfair booth, the booth layout, promo materials like flyers and business cards, etc. Seriously, none of these supposed 'industry veterans' spoke up and said, "You can't take Nintendo's IP to a huge industry trade show and pass off someone else's work as your own, you'll be pulling the feathers out of the tar within the hour"?

 

If this didn't happen then it's back to the same old bullshit of last summer where Mike was witholding important day-to-day business operational info from the other partners (eg. Kevtris pulling out). When your associates learn that one of your major hardware contributors is no longer involved (and actually never was) IN THE MIDDLE OF AN ON CAMERA INTERVIEW your company has far more problems than just cash flow.

I remember this. Wish I had recorded the video streams. Poor Steve was completely flabbergasted (as evidenced by his voice in the podcast).

[goldenegg]

Honestly ... this whole situation makes me sad.

 

I love video games. Doesn't matter if they're retro or current. If they're video games, I want to play them and I'll likely have a blast doing so. I get excited when new systems are announced, as they generally bring with them a whole new set of games to enjoy. Did I mention that I love video games?

 

The thought of a new, non-mainstream system that focuses on indie games on physical media is an interesting concept for me. I don't believe for a second that such a system will ever get mainstream success, but it could be a cool system to have in my collection. I would support such a project in a heartbeat, which is where the sadness comes in. I want to support a project like this, but the team behind it simply keeps doing everything they can to prove their inability to deliver. They also continue to treat their customers as idiots and purposely try to mislead those who don't know any better.

 

At this point, there's nothing this team can do to redeem themselves in my eyes. I won't be giving them so much as a penny. I still wish they'd just come clean and stop all the deception.

[Shiru]

Let's assume the best case scenario for a second, that they're actually going to make a SNES clone hardware, with USB/HDMI etc additions. How does this apply to the idea of 8-16-32 bit style games?

 

Also, programming for the SNES, while is not a rocket science, is a real pain in the place, due to the overall system complexity, various limitations, and really underdeveloped tools (C compiler, for one, is simply broken). There is just a few guys in the world who making SNES homebrews at the moment, and having a clone system won't help with that at all - we already have the original, but a very few homebrews and even fewer developers. A clone system like that would be just doomed to have almost no new games. An ARM SoC, on the other hand, would be lightyears easier to program with modern tools, and cheaper to produce as well.

[bretthorror]

If it is just a SNES (Mike says it isn't, for whatever that's worth), the system is completely doomed because only SNES homebrews would hit the system since the specs wouldn't be there to run the current indie scene games which are quite sizable despite their retro look, especially containing some badass music that would be beyond the SNES limitations.

 

When I saw the CRT, I immediately thought of it being hooked up via non-HDMI means and thought maybe they're making it composite out only, cheap like a plug n' play unit to really save money and make the system affordable and hopefully in this case, the cartridges would be very cheap to go alongside this and the Intellivision/Colecovision games would be built in as a sort of Flashback with a cart slot deal. I actually was kind of down with that idea because as much as I'd like HDMI and all that, the system simply doesn't need to be very powerful and I could get by hooking up a $89.99 console with $19.99 cartridges.

[Flojomojo]

When I was a kid in 1978, we traced a bunch of Marvel Comics and pretended to pass them off to each other as collectible trading cards from the new, unreleased Star Wars movie. We wanted the new film, we wanted to know what happened next, and we wanted to be on the inside track. Enthusiasts wishing isn't enough to make complex things come true.

[Flojomojo]

I think the patent on the SNES and SNES mini has expired, just can't use any Nintendo trademarks.

This is old, but probably still relevant: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2457/nintendo_entertainment_system__.php

 

I know I would rather not anger Nintendo's lawyers. I don't think we have enough proof to know for sure that RVGS is using SNES hardware, but we haven't seen any evidence to the contrary, either.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Let's assume the best case scenario for a second, that they're actually going to make a SNES clone hardware, with USB/HDMI etc additions. How does this apply to the idea of 8-16-32 bit style games?

 

Also, programming for the SNES, while is not a rocket science, is a real pain in the place, due to the overall system complexity, various limitations, and really underdeveloped tools (C compiler, for one, is simply broken). There is just a few guys in the world who making SNES homebrews at the moment, and having a clone system won't help with that at all - we already have the original, but a very few homebrews and even fewer developers. A clone system like that would be just doomed to have almost no new games. An ARM SoC, on the other hand, would be lightyears easier to program with modern tools, and cheaper to produce as well.

But that implies that Mike and company would have to do real design work in putting together the nuts and bolts of the system. This means not only a solid background in electrical engineering, but software design as well. You have to not only create the hardware but also create a development environment for it. Then you lay out the components on a PCB. Then you design the shells and overall style of the console.

 

Mike not only is doing things backwards by starting with the shell, but also seems bound and determined to put as little real work into creating this system as possible. He didn't design his own shell; he used someone elses. He didn't design a console; he used someone elses. Ditto for the controller. It's like Mike expects to just plagiarize everyone else's hard work and programmers will line up waiting to develop for it. Again, the programmers will be doing all the work of porting games themselves with little to no input from Mike and company. And they will willfully hand over their game code to be burned onto cartridges for sale alongside the Chameleon.

 

Idea ---> Sales pitch ---> Invite other developers to do all the work ---> Retroland customers line up to buy product ---> Profit $$$

[jaybird3rd]

I wouldn't recommend it, you have no idea how many minutes I had to spend on my last proto.

Well, we all appreciate the sacrifice ... especially me, because you inspired me to create my very own video game system!

 

I've kept quiet about this until now, but I've always felt that the Mattel Aquarius Home Computer System would make a great foundation for a video game console ... and today, thanks to the power of crowdfunding and those miraculous Jaguar shells, I've found a way to make it happen.

 

Ladies and gentlemen, I am pleased to present ... The Aquarius Alpaca!!!

 

 

I can neither confirm nor deny that the board inside this prototype is or is not an original Aquarius motherboard pulled out of an old computer, but eventually this system will contain an advanced FPGA core, and it will come with a lab-grade power supply and a complete collection of classic Aquarius software on cartridge!

 

Here is a look at the system with the controllers:

 

 

There is no power switch because I couldn't figure out how to wire it up (hey, I'm management, what do you want?), so to turn on the system, simply plug it in. (Just don't leave it on too long, or you'll melt the tape and glue holding it together.) These controllers are actually hardwired into the prototype, but unfortunately, they do not function with the games at this time. But hey ... I've got controllers, and I've got the console shell, and that's half the battle right there!

 

So, what are the specifications of this system, the release dates, and the launch titles? You'll have to wait until my exciting Kickstarter campaign to find out. I am already in talks with major industry players—I cornered them on the plane during the flight to Toy Fair and forced them to hand over their business cards—and with a prototype like this, plus a couple of sizzle reels showing 3D renders of the completed system in action, I figure I can raise at least $1.95M. Plus, if I can raise more, I can make it available in limited Collector's Edition colors! So just hang in there until the Kickstarter campaign, and all your questions will be answered!

[rob_ocelot]

I've been an excited supporter of this project since last May and probably would have backed the IGG campaign had it not been for the price. Even with all the BS that went on last time, I was still excited and ready to back this product. But this whole supposed "prototype" revealing is very fishy to say the least. I will still consider backing the Kickstarter but they will definitely need to impress me along with a generous deal for the early backers. I want a product like this to succeed so bad but this guy is seriously fucking it up.

 

I don't think there's a palm big enough for me to bury my face in after reading this...

 

Mike is banking on people like you who are trying to wish magic retro consoles into existence.

 

Ever wonder why Nigeria has so many princes who are separated from their money?

[Raticon]

The problem with the FPGA thing is that there is stated in this thread to the general knowledge only one person in the world who has managed to make a fully working SNES-capble FPGA, and he's selling it at about 50$ a pop to the public.
As i understand it, the reason noone else has made one is that it simply is very very hard. To imagine these guys whipping up an equal FPGA with the skill, tact and resources they seem to have (in all 3 cases, none at all, if you didn't notice) in just a few months would be beyond fantastic, especially considering that if they indeed managed to do that, they still went for the SNES-in-a-Jag solution for the fair, just pooping on everyone expecting the "true" FPGA reveal in 10 days...

No. I don't think they have anything of the sort. A decent ARM running some nice emulators, tops.

[Andromeda Stardust]

This is old, but probably still relevant: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2457/nintendo_entertainment_system__.php

 

I know I would rather not anger Nintendo's lawyers. I don't think we have enough proof to know for sure that RVGS is using SNES hardware, but we haven't seen any evidence to the contrary, either.

Thanks for the link Flojo.

 

I believe Nintendo sued Messiah over their Generation Nex console, and lost. This opened the doors for more companies to create NOAC based clone consoles, provided they did not bundle them with any original games.

[goldenegg]

 

 

Mike is banking on people like you who are trying to wish magic retro consoles into existence.

 

 

 

This! It's clear that Mike has pretty much abandoned the retro gaming community. Either that, or he believes we're all idiots.

[Reaperman]

Okay, hear me out, now

 

So, if it's got:

A coleco badge

jaguar case

and snes board

 

Then, to be complete all it needs are:

saturn controllers

famicom cartridges

turbo grafx power supply

and the soul of an unbaptized child

 

My logic cannot be denied.

Frankenstein's monster must live.

 

Edited February 14, 2016 by Reaperman

[dj_convoy]

 

its popular to get on the hate train.

 

Do you honestly and truly believe that's all that's going on here? That all of these people who have perhaps not a ton in common except for a love of video games, are unfairly railroading your friend on the "hate train?" That we're trying to impress each other? "I hate Retro VGS more than you!" "No way, dude, I hate it WAY more!"

 

There's way more going on here than mere bandwagon jumping.

Edited February 14, 2016 by dj_convoy