Coleco Chameleon .... hardware speculations?

[elmer]

Nice find (didn't know), at ~10US$ a pop for the 1Gbit=128MByte at 130ns they make the whole cart based game still within reason but not as cheap (I'm pretty sure the gang would claim that manuals, plastic shells, and supplemental materials cost more than that so minimum a cart game would need to be sold north of 40US$).

 

I hear you, maybe we're making a mountain out of a mole-hill after all. Let's see what they come up with.

 

 

Not at all. And games that really pushed the ststem like DK64 and Conker's do have small loading times although it's masked well by the game so you might miss it. Four seconds tops versus a minute-and-a-half for PS1.

 

I kinda like the hybrid nature of N64 ROMs. It's got a 16-bit bus yes but the console requests memory in chunks rather than single address. The console fetches a value range from ROM then the data is streamed automatically with each clock cycle bus sending like 16 bits per clock. With the 60-something megahertz bus and the 90-something megahertz CPU (N64 shipped with a +50% O.C. CPU) with direct DMA access from ROM to RAM, gamers were getting it on N64 style while the PS1 dudebros were jacking around with a loading screen.

 

The component cost should come down considerably when buying a couple of thousand, particularly from a cheaper distributor (such as when contract-manufactured in China).

 

But I guess that that would still be within the $25-$45 game cost that I think that Mike was originally talking about so many months ago, IIRC.

 

It would be easy to have u-boot in a small eprom/flash inside the console that displays the "Coleco Chameleon" logo while it boots the game kernel from a USB-style cartridge, or a PATA/SATA-style cartridge ... or while it configures a small FPGA to provide a DMA system to an N64-style parallel cartridge.

 

There are lots of possibilities ... but anything "interesting" and "different" is going to take time to design, and to put together into a bulletproof system for commercialization.

 

This stuff isn't Mike Kennedy's area of experience, nor is it Steve Woita's.

 

So the question is ... who is doing the design now, and what is their background?

 

With the original mention of the BeagleBone Black, and the incredible speed of the turnaround between failed IGG and the "new" Coleco Chameleon, it seems likely that they've just gone back to that style of simple ARM SoC.

 

But, IMHO, that kind of low-power (by modern standards) system just isn't going to handle the kind of modern programming that goes into the current Unity-made "Retro-style" games without looking like total crap ... or without requiring months of Chameleon-specific optimization, that just isn't going to make economic sense to any game developers.

 

I really look forward to hearing more details about the system (hopefully in February), but I can't help feeling that whatever they come up with to fit into the new "low" price, it just isn't going to be a viable target for modern developers and their high-profile "Retro Style" games, and it isn't going to be an "interesting" enough system to attract smaller homebrew/old-school developers.

[PlaysWithWolves]

Triverse recently interviewed Mark Thomann of River West Brands and its subsidiary COLECO Holdings. They discuss COLECO and the Chameleon. They discuss COLECO brand licensing, if multiple COLECO-branded consoles could arise as competitors and most interestingly: Thomann's feelings on criticism.

 

[StopDrop&Retro]

He's a nice guy, I like him. I would have imagined the head at River West Brands to be a soul-less business man.

 

I found it interesting that he said they're looking into making a Colecovision Flashback 2.

 

Also, does anyone know what that Disney handheld is that he talked about?

[Flojomojo]

For your speculation pleasure, here are 64 open spec single board computers. I don't know what's planned for CC but I've heard many of these names thrown around as if it's a done deal.

http://linuxgizmos.com/ringing-in-2016-with-64-open-spec-hacker-friendly-sbcs/

On the one hand, this kind of tech makes the "Chameleon" far more likely to happen, especially if it's built on something tried and tested.

On the other hand, relying on a kit like this would make it a lot less special.

[StopDrop&Retro]

My favorite game! Pin the Board on the Chameleon!

 

My guess: BeagleBone Green

[AE35]

Here we go again! Is it still called Retroland? I guess so.

 

Regarding the ability to store data for ever. I understand the 'need' to want to preserve stuff. I really do. But I am 41 now, so I try not to feel the urge to preserve Invasion of the Body Snatchers(1978). I am 100% sure someone else is doing that. It is a slight hoarder-way of thinking.

 

With Steam and Nvidia Gamestream, I am totally engaged in being able to game anywhere in my house, streaming from one game/video-server in the closet. Play on the laptop, play on the TV, play on the Nvidia Shield tablet etc. Playing Planetary Annihilation on a HP Elitebook from 2010 that would NEVER be able to run it, that is amazing.

 

This is the future of gaming. Mike Kennedy, I do not want to go back! I cannot help thinking that the whole concept is completely void of ambition.

 

/Nicholas

Edited January 2, 2016 by AE35

[AE35]

 

Edit: I'll just stop posting about the RVGS in These Forums. I'll Keep reading everything, and I'll Keep doing my YouTube Videos. I disagree with the view of the Moderation that People are out to get mike or the Project. I personally think Mike's Project and Actions are that bad, and he makes every possible mistake every single step of the way. There's nothing else to say about this but negative things. All that said, I respect the Feelings of the veterans here, and I do understand that even if Mike is at fault, that People don't want something so negative piling up on an old member of the community.

 

leods, I am pulling you back in! Since the other thread is closed, I'll take it here. You stated in the former thread that:

 

"Nowadays no one owns a calculator anymore, because they have calculators in their phones or PCs. "

 

Am I the only one that uses one of these every single day?

 

[Keatah]

With Steam and Nvidia Gamestream, I am totally engaged in being able to game anywhere in my house, streaming from one game/video-server in the closet. Play on the laptop, play on the TV, play on the Nvidia Shield tablet etc. Playing Planetary Annihilation on a HP Elitebook from 2010 that would NEVER be able to run it, that is amazing.

 

This is the future of gaming. Mike Kennedy, I do not want to go back! I cannot help thinking that the whole concept is completely void of ambition.

 

/Nicholas

 

That's right. And if you want to play the old games from the golden era (70's and 80's), there's plenty of emulators for modern hardware. You can have the same conveniences for those too.

 

 

Am I the only one that uses one of these every single day?

 

Not at all.

[phoenixdownita]

For your speculation pleasure, here are 64 open spec single board computers. I don't know what's placed for CC but I've heard many of these names thrown around as if it's a done deal.

 

http://linuxgizmos.com/ringing-in-2016-with-64-open-spec-hacker-friendly-sbcs/

 

On the one hand, this kind of tech makes the "Chameleon" far more likely to happen, especially if it's built on something tried and tested.

 

On the other hand, relying on a kit like this would make it a lot less special.

Please let it be one of the boards with the Zinq 70x0 ... dual core ARM + FPGA (28K LE at least).

The snickerdoodle seems cheap enough .... it lacks HDMI output without extra board still.

 

Anyway it won't happen .

Edited January 2, 2016 by phoenixdownita

[Flojomojo]

 

leods, I am pulling you back in! Since the other thread is closed, I'll take it here. You stated in the former thread that:

 

"Nowadays no one owns a calculator anymore, because they have calculators in their phones or PCs. "

 

Am I the only one that uses one of these every single day?

 

IMG_20160102_135742.jpg

Students use calculators like that, because multifunction devices like smartphones or computers that can do more are not permitted in testing situations.

 

I suppose engineers use calculators like that. I don't fully understand why, but I suspect it's a combination of habit and the feeling of the hard keys. Muscle memory, and having a dedicated, portable tool probably come into it as well.

 

Personally, I would choose the more flexible "do everything" device every time. I'm no engineer, obviously. I get that dedicated hardware has its place. I have friends with fancy DSLR cameras for professional photography. I recognize there is value to their multi-thousand dollar setups, because it can capture better pictures than any iPhone. My Playstation renders better game graphics than my iPhone. I can see how a hard-key HP scientific calculator is sometimes the right tool for the job.

 

You must tell us your reasons for using a calculator like that every day. I'd also love to hear how a classic, useful HP calculator is related to the Coleco Chameleon.

[+Charlie Cat]

Hi guys,

This was posted before. But I wanted to share this with all of you again regarding with the two developers that were originally planing to develop on the RVGA!

"I was in contact with two of Mike Kennedy's game developers that were going to port their Neo-Geo titles over to the Retro VGS. I ask them if they will be continuing doing business with Mr. Kennedy with the Coleco Chameleon.

NG Dev Team said the following on Facebook regarding Gunlord and Last Hope Pink Bullets. Jeff Kurtz from Neobitz with Knight's Chance though e-mail."

"I haven't been in contact with them since their Indegogo campaign. I'm not sure what their new plan is... I'm still open to the idea of making the game available on the new system."

-Jeff-

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NG Dev Team December 23 at 3:25am

We have no plans at this moment.

 

 

Anthony...

[Matthew]

Students use calculators like that, because multifunction devices like smartphones or computers that can do more are not permitted in testing situations.

 

I suppose engineers use calculators like that. I don't fully understand why, but I suspect it's a combination of habit and the feeling of the hard keys. Muscle memory, and having a dedicated, portable tool probably come into it as well.

 

Personally, I would choose the more flexible "do everything" device every time. I'm no engineer, obviously. I get that dedicated hardware has its place. I have friends with fancy DSLR cameras for professional photography. I recognize there is value to their multi-thousand dollar setups, because it can capture better pictures than any iPhone. My Playstation renders better game graphics than my iPhone. I can see how a hard-key HP scientific calculator is sometimes the right tool for the job.

 

You must tell us your reasons for using a calculator like that every day. I'd also love to hear how a classic, useful HP calculator is related to the Coleco Chameleon.

 

Nah, Engineers use real calculators because the results of complex operations are guaranteed to be correct. An engineer does not want to take a chance with some poorly programmed software downloaded off the Google PlayStore.

 

Some calculations can cost a company many thousands of dollars if not done correctly.

[Flojomojo]

Heh heh, true enough. Remember when the Windows calculator made stupid, simple errors? I seem to recall they put the blame on the intel CPUs of the time.

 

Edit: I believe it was this. That seems like enough to make someone keep their tried and tested tools. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_FDIV_bug

[AE35]

Well, using a T-89, or other calculators in the same vein, is not about buttons or something like that. It's because these calculators can do integrals, regression, solve for unknowns, convert between stuff, like, I am in the lab, I cannot find the correct pipette - how many mL is x uL, again?

 

My country has Texas Instruments as the standard calculator...this means that from high school and on, teachers are only supporting TI calculators. You can buy something similar, but at your own risk. The university of Copenhagen use R as the statistical software of choice, and Microsoft Word as standard word processor.

 

/Nicholas

[maiki]

So I guess this system is going to use HDMI right? SO that means it will either render the games at 1080p - meaning absolutely no retro, or: upscaling them - meaning - just another emulator ouputting distorted video like any laptop running Direct X emulator of any king. Not to mention that using both digital and analogue AV will increase cost. SO for those who look for the real retro with analogue 240p RGB it won't work, and for casuals the market is already flooded with AT Games and similar super cheap SoC solutions.

 

I myself have the solution: I need to get a US Genesis system with genuine custom hardware parts like Z80 and Sega ASIC (who needs more FPGA today) and import more than 300 favourite NTSC cartridges! Connect it via RGB SCART and show people the phosphorescent video gaming triads in action. Well, that's the real deal man. The real retro.

[Newsdee]

A good upscaler will convert a 240p signal to 720p or 1080p decently; I wouldn't call that "emulators".

 

Recently I went to an old mall arcade and noticed some games had their monitors changed to LCD panels (probably cheaper). The old games (late 90s) were still fun to play; but it's a sad reminder that CRT are no longer manufactured (?).

Edited January 4, 2016 by Newsdee

[Keatah]

CRTs are costly to maintain at peak performance.

 

Emulators don't distort the image.

[CPUWIZ]

Emulators don't distort the image.

 

That is why emulators suck.

[Amstari]

CRTs are costly to maintain at peak performance.

 

I'm not sure what maintenance a CRT requires. Can you please explain.

[PlaysWithWolves]

I'm starting to see potential for a COLECO CRT market ...

[bretthorror]

The only thing worse than the RVGS team is the CRT fanboys.

[godslabrat]

I'm not sure what maintenance a CRT requires. Can you please explain.

Constantly tweaking the colors and watching for convergence issues.

[Raticon]

 

That is why emulators suck.

That is why one use Retroarch and get some absolutely sick filters! .

 

Nothing like playing some retro games via emulator on a old and crap CRT but remembering and missing how bad it looked on a completely shit old TV you found at the dump as a kid 30 years ago and applying filters to your already shit CRT to make the picture even more shit, just for the right nostalgia feeling.

 

On the note of pictures being shit or good, any news on what kind of outputs the CC will have? Are they sticking with HDMI or will it be composite or even RF for that true retro feel?

[Keatah]

CRTs have convergence, capacitor, and consistency issues.

 

I'm starting to see potential for a COLECO CRT market ...

 

It would fit right in..

[Flojomojo]

CRTs have convergence, capacitor, and consistency issues.

It would fit right in..

I guess I should be surprised that CRT fans exist, especially in a thread about a retro-style console system. I started to think, were there people like this from decades past, as well? From when a radio console was made of wood, took up a large space in your room, and took several minutes to warm up the tubes? Did some people actively resist the miniaturization transistor radios and yearn for the "warmer" sound of days gone by, despite the advantages of the new technology?

 

Of course they did, and they're still out there. There are probably people who hate seat belts and air bags, too. They're like the anti-vaxxers of technology. A nice LCD isn't what you grew up with, but isn't it nice to have all the characters on the screen more closely resemble the pictures in the printed manuals that you love so much?