Dumping Cartidges with a Widget

[Toucan]

Alright. I am ready to lay something to rest. Ever since I got into the TI community I have heard that people use Navarone Widget's to dump their cartridges. Now, I was under the impression that a Widget was nothing more than a cartridge port expander that allowed the user to have up to 3 carts plugged in at one time and nothing more. Therefore, my question is how do you dump cartridges using the Widget. Here's a quote from Kyle who apparently does it. Apparently only the slide switch will do the dumps:

 

 

"Don't worry you already know the difference- one has a rotary switch and the other a slide switch. The rotary switch one is harder to use to do cartridge dumps so Erick needs the slide switch one whereas you need the early bare board rotary one for your collection. I personally prefer the rotary one as it is easier to keep clean when you eat at your computer, but am forced to use the slide switch one when I do cartridge dumps."

 

 

So how does one dump carts with the Widget? I always used a Gram Kracker to dump my carts. My gut is that it can't be done without extra software, but many make it sound like you just need a Widget to do a dump.

 

 

[+Ksarul]

It works like this, Toucan:

 

Take the Editor Assembler and put it in slot one, with the cartridge you want to dump in slot two. Load the CSAVE program from Myarc using the Editor Assembler as a loader (or any other cartridge dump program you like). Slide the switch to slot two on the Navarone and if your dump program doesn't crash, activate it and it will do the dump of the cartridge in slot two. I did this with over 150 cartridges when I first got my Geneve back in 1987. . .the occasional crash is because the Navarone sometimes shifts when you slide the switch, causing a system crash.

[Shift838]

It works like this, Toucan:

 

Take the Editor Assembler and put it in slot one, with the cartridge you want to dump in slot two. Load the CSAVE program from Myarc using the Editor Assembler as a loader (or any other cartridge dump program you like). Slide the switch to slot two on the Navarone and if your dump program doesn't crash, activate it and it will do the dump of the cartridge in slot two. I did this with over 150 cartridges when I first got my Geneve back in 1987. . .the occasional crash is because the Navarone sometimes shifts when you slide the switch, causing a system crash.

 

Where is this CSAVE utility ?

[+Ksarul]

It is one of the programs that was delivered with the Geneve on the original distribution disks. It may be on WHT--but I'll almost guarantee it is in Klaus' TI file collection from the Christmas download. . .

[Shift838]

It is one of the programs that was delivered with the Geneve on the original distribution disks. It may be on WHT--but I'll almost guarantee it is in Klaus' TI file collection from the Christmas download. . .

 

it is but I cannot get it to copy out of the utility. I get an exception error when trying to copy to Classic99 from Web99.

[Toucan]

It works like this, Toucan:

 

Take the Editor Assembler and put it in slot one, with the cartridge you want to dump in slot two. Load the CSAVE program from Myarc using the Editor Assembler as a loader (or any other cartridge dump program you like). Slide the switch to slot two on the Navarone and if your dump program doesn't crash, activate it and it will do the dump of the cartridge in slot two. I did this with over 150 cartridges when I first got my Geneve back in 1987. . .the occasional crash is because the Navarone sometimes shifts when you slide the switch, causing a system crash.

 

Now my question is, if I remove a cartridge from the TI when running it usually crashes the system. How does the Widget get around this? I've pulled out Munchman or the like before and it will crash the system, but a Widget won't crash it? Also, why is a rotary widget not as good for dumping as a slide switch one? Lastly, how does one load one of these dumps back into memory? Can it be reloaded as an E/A 5 option?

Edited December 27, 2015 by Toucan

[Fritz442]

 

it is but I cannot get it to copy out of the utility. I get an exception error when trying to copy to Classic99 from Web99.

Your folders are incorrect, did you get the beta3 update?

[+Schmitzi]

Hi

 

here are some files. I´ve testet them, they all start via E/A (except the DOC)

 

I have named them clearly so that you directly can see how to load them........

 

I never used this tool, I do NOT know if there are newer version, maybe.

 

xXx

 

attachment=REMOVED

 

Please see new version here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/247187-dumping-cartidges-with-a-widget/?p=3401424 (just 3 posts ahead)

[+Schmitzi]

 

it is but I cannot get it to copy out of the utility. I get an exception error when trying to copy to Classic99 from Web99.

 

I don´t know, but CSAVE is a proggy for the Editor/Assembler,

 

and I am not sure, but I believe that the "Copy-2-Classic99"-function just is for basic-files/plain text (copy and paste) ?

[+Schmitzi]

 

Now my question is, if I remove a cartridge from the TI when running it usually crashes the system. How does the Widget get around this? I've pulled out Munchman or the like before and it will crash the system, but a Widget won't crash it? Also, why is a rotary widget not as good for dumping as a slide switch one? Lastly, how does one load one of these dumps back into memory? Can it be reloaded as an E/A 5 option?

 

 

I think, if you pull the cartridge, a reset is triggered via the cartridge-port.

(what the widget does not, of course, as it is not pulled from the cart-port)

 

The CSAVE-procedure does not work with the Navarone rotary-switch-widged.

MAYBE due to the fact that the rotary-switch really opens the contacts for a moment while switching,

and the Slider-Switch, by nature, has the switching-contacts closer next to another ?

(There is no "Zero" between the switch-positions on the slider-variante = NO crash on running proggy)

 

I read about that is is VERY important to have a clean cartridge-port at the TI, for a successful work with CSAVE........

(and so, of course, the widget should be in a good condition)

 

xXx

Edited December 27, 2015 by schmitzi

[+Schmitzi]

I found another CSAVE, named V2 (CSAVEV2 in the new ZIP, via E/3) But produced a "Memory Full" in E/A (??)

 

 

 

Updated Archive:

 

CSAVE-Misc-02.zip

 

 

 

 

Error on CSAVEV2 (E/A-3):

 

[globeron]

Alright. I am ready to lay something to rest. Ever since I got into the TI community I have heard that people use Navarone Widget's to dump their cartridges. Now, I was under the impression that a Widget was nothing more than a cartridge port expander that allowed the user to have up to 3 carts plugged in at one time and nothing more. Therefore, my question is how do you dump cartridges using the Widget. Here's a quote from Kyle who apparently does it. Apparently only the slide switch will do the dumps:

 

 

 

 

So how does one dump carts with the Widget? I always used a Gram Kracker to dump my carts. My gut is that it can't be done without extra software, but many make it sound like you just need a Widget to do a dump.

 

 

 

1. I remember also doing it like this before (with Ed Schwartz) Transfer utility that time for the V9T9 Dos version (to dump from the TI-99/4A to a PC)

(this still works with DosBox or other Dos-emulator in windows). http://www.globeron.com/freedownload/services/TI99/TI-99-4A-PC-transfer-v1.12.pdf

See page 18 ("current module"), you have to move the switch slowly on the Navarone Widget.

 

(There are other utilities to do transfers like HDX, but not sure if they dump a cartridge)

Like Ksarul mentioned, you need to be carefully moving the switch of the Navarone Extender (to avoid the program hangs-up or resets the TI)

 

 

2. You can also run a GramKracker in a MESS (now MAME) emulator:

(but I do not see the purpose doing this in the emulator as in this case the module has been dumped already...)

(search in www.youtube.com for "ti99videos").

 

3. but the main question is which module do you want to dump?

(most modules/cartridges have been dumped already as far as I see).

Check with WEB99 or with Toxic Instruments (Schmitzi) and FTP WHTECH very resourceful

or let me know the module, I prob. can find it somewhere.

[+Ksarul]

I know that Toucan has at least one module that has never been dumped, Globeron--he's one of the few people that has a collection of TI modules as esoteric as mine. I have a few he doesn't have, he has a few I don't have, Acadiel has one neither one of us has, and ComputerClassics has a few none of the rest of us have as well. There are still a few out there that none of us has (the Prestel Module prototype and a few of the known Logo module variants), but there are folks in this community with most of those too (humeur has the French Logo variants, for example, and put pictures of them up here in a thread a few years ago). I'm still looking for a copy of the Argentine Spanish version of Logo I (I have the Spanish Logo II from Argentina). I bought a copy of it once, but the seller conveniently "lost" it after payment was made. They did make up for it by sending the Spanish Logo II as a replacement (which was good too, as both are very difficult to find, even in Argentina). I think the seller figured out that the Logo I was harder to find than the Logo II, so he may have kept the module for his own collection. I was happy with the substitution though, so no loss at all--and if he turned up with a Logo I for sale again, I'd still buy it from him, as the last order of items from him worked out in the end.

[RXB]

I never understood why people wanted to use Hardware Cartridges when a GRAM device with a Hard drive could swap Cartridges even faster and avoid the search.

Edited December 29, 2015 by RXB

[kl99]

Wasn't a playground program released that allowed dumping the cartridge from TI Basic? I proposed such a program and thought, that seniorfalcon actually released something like that later.

Richard, I think it's a collectors drive to get something (cartridge) what others don't have yet. You can compare it to a programming challenge by achieveing something nobody before has achieved.
Second point is, the proof in your hands that the cartridge was actually procuded and not only the software was developed and we got our hands on it because we found it on some TI employee disk (Grom simulators or similar...), this can be of historical value.

[RXB]

Wasn't a playground program released that allowed dumping the cartridge from TI Basic? I proposed such a program and thought, that seniorfalcon actually released something like that later.

Richard, I think it's a collectors drive to get something (cartridge) what others don't have yet. You can compare it to a programming challenge by achieveing something nobody before has achieved.

Second point is, the proof in your hands that the cartridge was actually procuded and not only the software was developed and we got our hands on it because we found it on some TI employee disk (Grom simulators or similar...), this can be of historical value.

A ton of carts written were for GRAM devices and never made it to Cartridge form.

RXB for example is extremely rare in Cartridge form.

[globeron]

I know that Toucan has at least one module that has never been dumped, Globeron--he's one of the few people that has a collection of TI modules as esoteric as mine. I have a few he doesn't have, he has a few I don't have, Acadiel has one neither one of us has, and ComputerClassics has a few none of the rest of us have as well. There are still a few out there that none of us has (the Prestel Module prototype and a few of the known Logo module variants), but there are folks in this community with most of those too (humeur has the French Logo variants, for example, and put pictures of them up here in a thread a few years ago). I'm still looking for a copy of the Argentine Spanish version of Logo I (I have the Spanish Logo II from Argentina). I bought a copy of it once, but the seller conveniently "lost" it after payment was made. They did make up for it by sending the Spanish Logo II as a replacement (which was good too, as both are very difficult to find, even in Argentina). I think the seller figured out that the Logo I was harder to find than the Logo II, so he may have kept the module for his own collection. I was happy with the substitution though, so no loss at all--and if he turned up with a Logo I for sale again, I'd still buy it from him, as the last order of items from him worked out in the end.

 

Wow interesting to know there are modules we never heard of (would love to know which one these are? (hint hint :-) ), I think several people are doing a good job archiving it and making

lists complete (you, Ralf, Ciro, Richard and all other ones I forget), We used to have some French/Dutch versions of modules, probably they are at my families place in a box

(I remember something like Personal Record Keeping in French). Also the computer box was called L'Ordinateur.

 

Unfortunately I cannot help you with the Argentina Logo I version, if I had it you can have it (if someone deserves it it is you), not sure if there is a dump of it somewhere (but you probably are in contact already with the person on FB or AA who lives in Latin America, I remember seeing a video of somewhere). I am trying to collect as much as possible in "soft" format (as we do not have a lot of space here to store items unfortunately). I like the nano-PEB, but I am afraid it is going to be broken one of the days....and what is the alternative? I have a PEB and can expand it with a Lotharek solution, but then I prefer the emulators (Classic99 for sure and V9T9 I like it much as well and the MAME/MESS system is amazing TI-99/8, Geneve 9640 MYARC, HSGPL, etc.), the other emulators are okay and a few I still need to try out (the PSP version, the Linux one and the Raspberry PI 2 one RetroPIE or TI version).

 

I am not sure why, but it looks like more people have the same interest, to understand in more depth how this whole TI-99/4A thing works, probably because during the '80s

it was difficult to get access to the information and we were a bit dependent on computer hobby clubs / regional fairs, etc.and it was expensive that time. Now it is actually amazing how

many people picked it up again and creating even new things I hope this TI-99/4A will keep working as long as possible.

So far it is doing okay, but as mentioned in a PM, just blew up my other special Shoe shape adapter for the TI-99/4 with volume slider (but for a 36 years old system....).

[globeron]

Re: the Prestel Module prototype

 

>> I heard about this name Is Prestel the same as the Viditel dial-up service correct?

>> (I have the Viditel on a disk and maybe Presetel as well), will try my WEB99 to search for it

[+Ksarul]

I think I found a suitable X2-class capacitor to replace the one you blew up. Check your PMs, Globeron.

 

On the modules, I mentioned the Prestel Communications module (I know of just one of those in existence, and the owner never did dump it, so far as I know). I still have to dump my Dutch, Italian, and Spanish Logo II modules, so that's three more that aren't in regular circulation as straight cartridge dumps. I had my original Crossfire module dumped at the Chicago Faire two years ago. Tutankham exists as a single prototype cartridge (which has not been dumped due to restrictions placed on the owner when he bought it as conditions of the sale), and there are probably other prototypes out there for various modules that the community isn't fully aware of too. I think there are a couple of modules for use with the p-System that haven't been dumped either. . .

[+Ksarul]

It would be nice if you do turn up the Prestel code--and I believe that Viditel may have been another name for it.

[+Schmitzi]

saved

 

 

Hi,

 

- Modules for the P-Code ? Cartridges ?

- Any need/is it possible to dump my HamSoft/Kantronics (Sidecar) ?

- who made the Prestel ? (and what does this cartridge do ?)

 

thx

xXx

Edited December 29, 2015 by schmitzi

[RickyDean]

saved

 

 

Hi,

 

- Modules for the P-Code ? Cartridges ?

- Any need/is it possible to dump my HamSoft/Kantronics (Sidecar) ?

- who made the Prestel ? (and what does this cartridge do ?)

 

thx

xXx

Schmitzi, I think the hamsoft has an eprom in it, but I will try to open mine and see for sure, If it does and there is not one already dumped, if my Mechatronics eprommer still functions, and as I have fixed one of my HFDC's and can save to a 3.5 floppy can see about getting a dump to you, if you need it.

[atrax27407]

I have the Hamsoft EPROM

[atrax27407]

This should do it.

hamsoft.bin

[+Schmitzi]

cool, thanks. The only question now could be, if we all have the same version.

I never have empowered my device, because I don´t know about the powersupply (that I don´t have)

Maybe you have a hint ?

 

Were there some more software for the Ham, maybe to use functions of it in XBasic or so ?

 

xXx