Jump to content
IGNORED

Got a gripe?


snicklin
 Share

Recommended Posts

In this topic, I'd like to know what games annoy you because there is something wrong in their gameplay mechanics?

 

I don't intend the topic to be about complaining that the Atari version should have been as good as the C64 version but wasn't, I'd like to know if there is something that annoys you in a game because it is unfair?

 

I'll start with "Little Devil" (the game that angered the church in the late 80s). You touch the tokens that you're supposed to collect but they don't register as being touched half of the time. And then I collected the "S" token which makes the enemies inactive and then touched an enemy (so it should have destroyed it), but it took too long to register that I'd collected the "S" and then killed my little devil instead. Aaagh!!

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are a few games like Little Devil where you have to play around them, as I discovered on Ramp Rage it's very hard getting accurate collection of playfield segments when you have a moving player - though I did do it and on a scrolling game, so these professionals should have managed it - though they probably created the game in 3 months and I took 3 years :grin:

 

How about Nadral did anyone like that game? Looks great, well rated, but I never really figured it out :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are a few games like Little Devil where you have to play around them, as I discovered on Ramp Rage it's very hard getting accurate collection of playfield segments when you have a moving player - though I did do it and on a scrolling game, so these professionals should have managed it - though they probably created the game in 3 months and I took 3 years :grin:

 

How about Nadral did anyone like that game? Looks great, well rated, but I never really figured it out :)

 

One thing I've never, ever seen in a programming book is an algorithm for working out which items are being collected according to your position. I guess that there are only one or two ways of checking, but I had to come up with an algorithm myself for this.

 

When about to move the main player, record the coordinates of where it is about to go. At the same time I'd do some checks to see if it's a position that the character is allowed to move to (don't want them walking through walls). Then I'll run through all special collectable items and see if they lie underneath the player. If so, collect them. Depending on the perspective that you're using in the game, you may not want an intersection to count when a players head (which is in the air) is touching a special item.

 

Maybe it is too obvious for an explanation, but I've never seen it written down or heard anyone talk about it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Zador and Zador 2 by KE-Soft. http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=4632

 

Both games are a variation of Mahjong/Mahjongg/Mah-Jong (or whatever the correct spelling might be).

It takes some time to get used to the design of the tiles (colours/gfx) and errmmm, many tiles/symbols are looking quite similar, especially if you are in a hurry, since you have very limited time to finish a level...

 

What annoys me most with both games is the much too short time (or the timer running down much to fast). In Zador I was not able to complete at least one level, in Zador 2 I did complete a few levels, but not many. Since then, both games are sitting in my diskbox, collecting dust...

 

Think both games use CTB (compiled TB XL), but it would be great, if one could patch the game for more time or a slower timer (not nescessarily infinite time).

 

Luckily Fandal gave us Mahjong XE, which has a much better design (the tiles are clearly visible and distinguishable from each other). We can also select the level-layout we want and have as much time as we want (but we can save the best / lowest time to disk)... http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=6759

Edited by CharlieChaplin
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In Zador I was not able to complete at least one level, in Zador 2 I did complete a few levels, but not many. Since then, both games are sitting in my diskbox, collecting dust...

 

Think both games use CTB (compiled TB XL), but it would be great, if one could patch the game for more time or a slower timer (not nescessarily infinite time).

 

Try this :-)

http://www.b-pahl.de/atari8bit/Computer/computer.html#bremse

 

But you're right about Zador 1 (didn't really play Zador 2). Great game but it was way better if an option was added to select difficulty (timer countdown).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Zador and Zador 2 by KE-Soft. http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=4632

 

Both games are a variation of Mahjong/Mahjongg/Mah-Jong (or whatever the correct spelling might be).

It takes some time to get used to the design of the tiles (colours/gfx) and errmmm, many tiles/symbols are looking quite similar, especially if you are in a hurry, since you have very limited time to finish a level...

 

What annoys me most with both games is the much too short time (or the timer running down much to fast). In Zador I was not able to complete at least one level, in Zador 2 I did complete a few levels, but not many. Since then, both games are sitting in my diskbox, collecting dust...

 

Think both games use CTB (compiled TB XL), but it would be great, if one could patch the game for more time or a slower timer (not nescessarily infinite time).

 

Luckily Fandal gave us Mahjong XE, which has a much better design (the tiles are clearly visible and distinguishable from each other). We can also select the level-layout we want and have as much time as we want (but we can save the best / lowest time to disk)... http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=6759

 

Is MahJong XE dependent on artifacting? I had not seen this game before, and I find that some tiles are not "bounded" and appear identical on my monitor (no artifacting possible on my screen), but still are "stuck." Maybe special rules for this version? The cursor as controlled by a joystick is a bit difficult to control properly. I'd say that is a trade-off between a slow cursor and a difficult-to-control one. Remember the version written in Action!? As I remember it, those tiles were very difficult to distinguish.

 

-Larry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of pain and suffering is had not necessarily due to the game's fault but due to the fact we never really progressed beyond the single button joystick.

What would have been nice is if they went for 3 or 4 button sticks in 1979, or maybe even analog sticks which frees up 5 digital inputs without need for any extra tricks off the bat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Is MahJong XE dependent on artifacting? I had not seen this game before, and I find that some tiles are not "bounded" and appear identical on my monitor (no artifacting possible on my screen), but still are "stuck." Maybe special rules for this version? The cursor as controlled by a joystick is a bit difficult to control properly. I'd say that is a trade-off between a slow cursor and a difficult-to-control one. Remember the version written in Action!? As I remember it, those tiles were very difficult to distinguish.

 

-Larry

 

Errmmm,

 

Mahjong XE was written by Fandal in Czech Republic (PAL country), so I have high doubts it uses or supports artifacting in any way.

 

You should know that Zador, Zador 2 and Mahjong XE all make use of Mahjongg tiles or tiles very similar to Mahjongg, but they are played with different rules. In these three games, you have to find pairs like in Mahjongg/Shanghai but the way (or connection) from one tile to the other tile must NOT be folded more than twice (2x). You can see this very good in Zador and Zador 2, since both show the way (or connection) from one tile to the other, but Mahjong XE does not show the way (or connection)...

 

The Mahjongg version in Action! is named "My Jong" (written by Bruce Fish from Canada) and uses the standard Atari charset. You can configure the screen layout regarding height and length of the tiles and a few other things, but alas, this config. or setup cannot be saved to disk, so whenever you load the game again, you have to do the config./setup again. Due to the standard colours (orange, green, blue) and standard A8 charset, this game does not look very good optically. But therefore you can alter the Mahjongg/Shanghai rules like you want them (e.g. make slides always possible, so you only have to find pairs). Still, I would prefer it, if the game was not completely "open" and configurable, but more pre-defined (e.g. easy and hard modes) and level-based. Last not least, I would prefer other colours and a different charset (tiles more similar looking to Mahjongg tiles)...

http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=2438

 

Regarding A8 Mahjongg clones, we have:

- Shanghai (ported from the C64 to the A8 by Peter Sabath),

- Mah Jong (by Childs Play Software Services, also available on cart. from Video61; alas the tiles are hard to distinguish by the eye),

- Taifun by Foundation Two (Freeware, alas once more the tiles are hard to distinguish by the eye)

- Mahjong by Bill Kendrick (written in TB XL for the Tenliner Contest)

- the above mentioned My Jong by Bruce Fish

- in the docs of My Jong, Bruce Fish also mentions the type-in listing "Gemini" from the STart magazine, that should be similar to Mahjongg, but after he typed it in and started it, it was a total disappointment; I have not seen nor played this game yet: http://www.atarimagazines.com/startv5n6/gemini.html

(If someone has this game, maybe he can send or pm me a copy of it...)

- Taipei XL (slow version 1.0 and better/faster drawing version 1.1)

- the above mentioned Mahjong XE, Zador and Zador 2 (with other rules!)

Personally, I like Taipei XL 1.1 the most, followed by Shanghai and Mahjong XE.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What would have been nice is if they went for 3 or 4 button sticks in 1979, or maybe even analog sticks which frees up 5 digital inputs without need for any extra tricks off the bat.

 

http://mixinc.net/atari/pinouts/powerpad3.htm

 

powerpad3.png

 

No drivers needed, all inputs readable with/from STICK/TRIG/PADDLE. Supported? Unfortunately, only by a very few games but it can be a standard for the next one who decides to make such a thing.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, time to design a new A8 joypad, similar to the Sega 6-button joypad with shoulder-buttons (so the A8 joypad would have 8 fire buttons). We do have eight normal joystick/joypad directions: up (N), down (S), left (W), right (E) and the four diagonals (NW, NE, SW, SE).

 

Since there are seven more combinations possible, like e.g. 3 directions at once (01, 02, 04 and 08 in the chart above), 4 directions at once (00 in the above chart) and opposite directions (03 and 12/$0C in the above chart), we could have seven more fire buttons. Add them to the normal fire button (15/$0F in the above chart) and we have eight fire buttons total, enough to create a six-button joypad with shoulder fire buttons. Maybe it is even possible to re-wire the existing Sega six-button joypad + shoulder fire buttons (and compatible six-button joypads with shoulder fire buttons) to this scheme...

 

But then we would need (lots of) new software that supports this... and thats where the idea ends and fails, as always.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is, however, a small issue when using the STICK register values as fire buttons. If you press one of the extra fire buttons it clashes with the buttons used for directions (same register). This can easily be solved by clever STICK-reading but it's something to take into account.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Aliants" !! I curse the very ground upon which the programers walk for this travesty they called a "game". (By which they meant torture) Developed by Starsoft it's really a set of mini games that came on a double sided disk and no provision for saving progress except between sides. So after waiting forever for the "you failed" screen to load you'd have to do the whole side over again if you screwed up. I think you had to go through the preface which told the story of ant-like aliens attacking the earth every time as well, though I may be wrong as I've made every attempt at forgeting this game as possible. Basically it was a giant waste of magnetic media.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Aliants" !! I curse the very ground upon which the programers walk for this travesty they called a "game". (By which they meant torture) Developed by Starsoft it's really a set of mini games that came on a double sided disk and no provision for saving progress except between sides. So after waiting forever for the "you failed" screen to load you'd have to do the whole side over again if you screwed up. I think you had to go through the preface which told the story of ant-like aliens attacking the earth every time as well, though I may be wrong as I've made every attempt at forgeting this game as possible. Basically it was a giant waste of magnetic media.

 

Haha, watch out for the demo of Aliants, its much better, than the game itself !!

 

The same happend to the german game "Zeitmaschine 3 - Die Außerirdischen" (trying a google-like translation myself: Time Machine 3 - The Aliens/Extra Terrestrians"), where the game-demo was -in my eyes- better than the game itself. The demo featured some nice animation with an Alien newsreader talking to you and a great end (something like "...the future is in your hand, because you can buy this game at KE-Soft and stop the Aliens invading & destroying Earth..."). Alas, the game was just a standard text/gfx-adventure then, without any kind of animation, afaik...

ALIANTS_demo.zip

Edited by CharlieChaplin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

'Sidewinder' has always been a bugbear of mine. Fantastic music and and very intricate, colourful graphics with masses of detail... However it is simply impossible to play. The room given you to manoeuvre your helicopter is literally down to the single pixel in some places and the lack of any checkpoints make attempting a playthrough a fool's errand. In the last 30 years I have completed the first level... once. And even then I did not actually get on the lift thing as I didn't understand what I had to do. I crashed...

 

The only way I have even seen the other levels was to load it up in Altirra and turn off collision detection in the 'Cheats' menu.

 

Truly impossible game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...