Atari Logo on Side 2

[annomatik]

Hi!

 

I started programming on a Atari 800 XL (or maybe a 600 XL, I'm not sure) in school, with Atari Logo. When I found a boxed Atarl 800 XL, I had to buy it.

 

Waiting for the delivery, I still haven't received it, I looked around for ways to get software on it. I settled with the Side 2, which apparently can load XEX files very quickly. I have a bunch of XEX files I'm using with emulation, for Atari Logo though I only have a "com" file. (I have a XEX file which is working in emulation for Atari Pilot).

 

My question is: What do I need to make that com file work with the 800 XL? And will I be able to save my programs I work on to some sort of device and maybe even back these up on my PC?

 

I have a CF card reader on my PC, I'm also using CF cards with my Canon cameras.

 

Thanks!

[Kyle22]

Welcome to AtariAge. You can do all the things you mentioned, and more.

I'm on my phone now so typing is difficult at best.

 

Hopefully others can jump in. I'll be on a real computer later and I'll attempt to explain the basics of ATR files, com, exe, and xex files.

[annomatik]

Cool. All Hail the mighty Cornholio! :-)

[Kyle22]

I need T.P. for my bunghole!

 

OK, first of all, the SIDE2 is a great little device, but it performs best if the computer has plenty of RAM. I'm not sure if you will have enough free RAM to run Logo on a stock 800XL. Try it, you may.

 

As for COM, EXE, XEX files, they're all binary load program files. Only the name is different (and may be changed from one to another if you like.) Traditionally, COM files are small DOS commands, handlers, and the like. EXE (and XEX) are usually for large binaries that require the $A000-BFFF (cart space) area to be available, and require the use of the X command in SpartaDOS-X.

 

ATR files are an image of a disk. They can each contain their own version of DOS, and may hold multiple files inside them.

 

Now, without extra RAM, you must use the APT soft driver for SIDE2 which uses up some of the lower RAM areas of the computer, and may interfere with some programs.

 

With extra RAM, SpartaDOS-X will load many of its drivers into extended RAM and free up the lower areas for your programs.

 

There are many RAM upgrades available, But:

 

The best solution for you is the Ultimate 1Meg upgrade from Lotharek: http://lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=67

 

The U1Meg works in partnership with the SIDE2, and makes it a bootable PBI device. You can use its Loader to load not only binary XEX files, but also ATR files. A major difference is that you can save files to the ATR.

 

If you use the Loader to load Logo, you have no way of saving files from within Logo. The XEX Loader is good for games and demos.

 

With the U1M+SIDE2 combo, you get a "real" hard disk system. Low memory footprint, no need to use the loader in many cases. For example, your 800XL will boot to a C:> prompt, and from there you have access to the APT part of your hard disk (CF card). You may also "mount" an ATR file and it will appear to the system as a disk in a drive.

 

Here would be a normal use scenario with U1M and SIDE2:

 

For example, if you want to use Logo (we'll assume you have created a directory named LOGO, and YOU type what's in bold):

 

(Boot Computer)

 

C:>cd logo

C:\LOGO>logo

(assuming you have everything set up correctly, and there are many here who can help, Atari Logo will run).

 

Sorry for the long and rambling message, but I hope you get the idea.

[annomatik]

Cool, so that's pretty much like a 8 bit MS DOS system then. Thanks!

 

I'll play around with the Side 2 + stock 800 XL and will probably update to the Ultimate at some point.

[Kyle22]

SpartaDOS-X commands are similar to MS-DOS, but SDX is much more flexible and powerful.

[+Stephen]

SpartaDOS-X commands are similar to MS-DOS, but SDX is much more flexible and powerful.

Programmable batch processor with looping and branching! Full I/O redirection, relocatable code, TSRs, clones of some old DOS TSRs like DOSKEY, Tab to complete, etc. It's an amazing product.

[+DrVenkman]

I've always wanted to mess around with Atari LOGO but never picked up the cartridge to do so. So mention of this topic has gotten my attention.

 

With the U1M+SIDE2 combo, you get a "real" hard disk system. Low memory footprint, no need to use the loader in many cases. For example, your 800XL will boot to a C:> prompt, and from there you have access to the APT part of your hard disk (CF card). You may also "mount" an ATR file and it will appear to the system as a disk in a drive.

 

Here would be a normal use scenario with U1M and SIDE2:

 

For example, if you want to use Logo (we'll assume you have created a directory named LOGO, and YOU type what's in bold):

 

(Boot Computer)

 

C:>cd logo

C:\LOGO>logo

(assuming you have everything set up correctly, and there are many here who can help, Atari Logo will run).

 

Sorry for the long and rambling message, but I hope you get the idea.

 

 

Someday I really need to spend some time getting to know and understand the intricacies of SDX but for now, I'm confused but given how little I have tried to actually DO anything with the results of my tinkering, it's not really surprising that I don't understand the potential.

 

Anyway, when I boot up my SIDE2 + U1MB combo, I get a D1: prompt. I have access to a number hard disk partitions that I have created and formatted on my CF card, but they are all mapped up into the D5:, D6 ... range. I don't have anything on a C: device; so far as I thought I knew, the "C:" device was always reserved by the OS for the cassette interface.

 

But setting that part aside, are you saying we can put .COM files on those HD partitions and run them from SDX with the X command, and then from within any running program, save back to those partitions? How does something like Atari LOGO, for instance, "know" it can use anything other than D1: through D4:? Or does it simply pass along any such I/O requests to whatever DOS is in memory? Like I said, I'm confused ... (be gentle).

[Kyle22]

Well, you can use FDISK to map the partitions to whatever drive number/letter you want. I like to leave 1&2 for floppies, and start the HD at 3. D1: D2: D3: are identical to A: B: C:, etc. while in DOS, at the prompt.

 

Inside a language or application, you may save a file using SAVE"DA:file. That's the same as SAVE"D1:file. Most applications simply pass what you typed as a filename straight to DOS.

 

C: is the CIO's tape handler. That's why you have to use "DC: to use Disk partition C

 

The way to change the prompt from D1: to A:> is to put SET PROMPT=$L$P> in your CONFIG.SYS file. You may also type this at the command line.

 

You do NOT load all binaries with the X command. X is normally used only for those files that require NO BASIC or cart present. In other words, ones that need $A000-$BFFF.

 

Those that don't require the X command, small files, DOS commands, handlers, and the like should be named .COM

Those that DO require the X command should be named .EXE.

 

If you have DEVICE COMEXE in your CONFIG.SYS, then all you do is type the name of the file you want (only the name, not the ext). COM's are loaded normally, and EXE's are loaded using X.

 

Did I cover it all?

 

Edit: http://sdx.atari8.info/sdx_files/4.47/sdx_4-47_user_guide.pdf

 

Edited March 4, 2016 by Kyle22

[+DrVenkman]

Okay, one more question before I dig into the User's Guide (yeah, I know - I should just RTFM but hopefully my shameless ignorance will benefit others too embarrassed to ask ) ...

 

Where do I save my CONFIG.SYS file? And do I have to have different versions if I boot SDX from the SIDE2 versus using the U1MB without it (say, with a different language cart like Action! for instance). In other words, do I have to have an external drive attached in order to use a CONFIG.SYS file?

[Kyle22]

Okay, one more question before I dig into the User's Guide (yeah, I know - I should just RTFM but hopefully my shameless ignorance will benefit others too embarrassed to ask ) ...

 

Where do I save my CONFIG.SYS file? And do I have to have different versions if I boot SDX from the SIDE2 versus using the U1MB without it (say, with a different language cart like Action! for instance). In other words, do I have to have an external drive attached in order to use a CONFIG.SYS file?

That's OK. The FM is expertly written, and very large. It could never be read, understood, and comprehended in a day or two.

 

You can edit the CONFIG.SYS file on the CAR: or on the boot device, depending on your situation.

 

Without U1M: Use the SDX Imager tool to edit CAR:CONFIG.SYS Link -> http://sdx.atari8.info/index.php?show=download&file=sdx_files/SDXImageUser.zip

 

With U1M: At the SDX prompt, type: ED CONFIG.SYS. When done, hit <esc> then <return>

 

Good luck.

[+DrVenkman]

 

Without U1M: Use the SDX Imager tool to edit CAR:CONFIG.SYS Link -> http://sdx.atari8.info/index.php?show=download&file=sdx_files/SDXImageUser.zip

 

 

Well whaddaya know, this Windows tool actually runs and seems to work under CrossOver on my Mac. Now I just have to figure out what the hell I'm doing when I fiddle with the CONFG.SYS file. Thanks for the pointers, Kyle.

[annomatik]

As a follow-up: I simply copied all the XEX and COM files on the CF card (I used it as-is from my Canon Camera), plugged in the Side 2 and everything simply worked. I can even make subdirectories which I can navigate in.

 

Atari Logo also "simply works", I'm not sure about file saving yet though.

 

Great stuff!

[+DrVenkman]

As a follow-up: I simply copied all the XEX and COM files on the CF card (I used it as-is from my Canon Camera), plugged in the Side 2 and everything simply worked. I can even make subdirectories which I can navigate in.

 

Atari Logo also "simply works", I'm not sure about file saving yet though.

 

Great stuff!

 

 

Hey following up on this since I have some time in the next couple days ...

 

Where did you find a good file version of LOGO? So far as I know, there's no easy way to run cartridge images from a SIDE2, is there?

 

EDIT: Disregard! I did a more targeted search "LOGO .atr" I think) and found a thread from a couple years back where someone posted an .ATR with file versions of LOGO, Lisp, PILOT, and Atari ASEM/ED. I just had to figure out how to load them from the SpartaDOS X on the SIDE2 without them crashing - my fault for unfamiliarity with SDX. Got it sorted now.

Edited March 13, 2016 by DrVenkman

[annomatik]

Actually, there does not seem an easy way (for me) to run anything but cartridge images from the Side 2 :-)

 

I found a .com file somewhere and simply put it on the CF card. With the switch on the upper position, I just started the file.

 

I didn't go the SpartaDOS X route yet as I have yet to buy the "Ultimate" upgrade.

 

Of course, it would be very nice to be able to start cartridges, .atr files as well as .cas files, all from one simple interface, but alas...

[electrotrains]

Although I don't have a SIDE 2, I've read a fair bit about it and I think you might have trouble doing what you want with it.

 

On an 800XL like yours, I think you can only really use SIDE 2 as a XEX/COM launcher. So although you can load Atari LOGO, you are not going to be able to save files.

 

You could fit an Ultimate 1Meg upgrade inside your machine - then you can use the SIDE2 as a hard disk, and save files back to an Atari partition on the SD card. However, this upgrade requires opening (and soldering?) inside your machine. There is also a bit of a learning curve, and patchy documentation. But there are plenty of people on the forum that can help if you struggle to get everything set up right.

 

In my opinion, a SIO2SD is probably the easiest (and cheapest) route to doing what you want. Its just like having one (or more) disk drives attached to the Atari. You can buy them cheaply, or even build one yourself (about £10/$15). SIO2Arduino is another cheap DIY solution:

http://whizzosoftware.com/sio2arduino/

 

I discovered SIO2Arduino last year, and it prompted me to get my old 65XE out of storage, and rekindled my interest in the machine.

SIO2SD/SIO2Arduino are both easy and familiar ways to work with disks in a modern way (i.e. using SD cards).

 

Then your only other problem is Atari LOGO. This originally came on cartridge (16k ROM), and you can possibly convince the SIDE2 to emulate it? Someone else can maybe help you there? Other options are a ATR or XEX/COM conversion (which the SIO device will handle), or an Ultimate Cart (my own project) which will emulate just about any cartridge type from SD card.

 

Hope his helps,

 

Robin

[flashjazzcat]

Actually, there does not seem an easy way (for me) to run anything but cartridge images from the Side 2 :-)

 

I found a .com file somewhere and simply put it on the CF card. With the switch on the upper position, I just started the file.

 

I didn't go the SpartaDOS X route yet as I have yet to buy the "Ultimate" upgrade.

 

Of course, it would be very nice to be able to start cartridges, .atr files as well as .cas files, all from one simple interface, but alas...

I downloaded the Atari LOGO ZIP from AtariMania and it contained this COM file:

 

LOGO.zip

 

Since the SIDE2 cartridge is able to run SpartaDOS X without U1MB, and since SDX on SIDE2 includes a driver (SIDE2.SYS) for the hard disk, it's possible to boot SDX from SIDE2 (by moving the switch into the "down" position), partition the CF card using FDISK, and then run LOGO.COM from the HDD via "X LOGO.COM".

 

Unfortunately the SIDE2.SYS driver consumes a fair chunk of RAM so without some kind of RAM expansion (even 128KB would be sufficient), this won't work optimally on your 800XL - and indeed it's recommended to have >64KB to use SDX to its full potential anyway. But I just tested LOGO using the arrangement described above on an expanded memory machine and it appears to work.

 

You could fit an Ultimate 1Meg upgrade inside your machine - then you can use the SIDE2 as a hard disk, and save files back to an Atari partition on the SD card. However, this upgrade requires opening (and soldering?) inside your machine. There is also a bit of a learning curve, and patchy documentation. But there are plenty of people on the forum that can help if you struggle to get everything set up right.

I'm assuming few people know this exists:

 

http://atari8.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/APT-Software-Manual-3rd-Edition.pdf

 

Or if they do, and reading it doesn't clarify things, suggestions on how to improve the walk-through are welcome.

 

[LOGO] originally came on cartridge (16k ROM), and you can possibly convince the SIDE2 to emulate it? Someone else can maybe help you there? Other options are a ATR or XEX/COM conversion (which the SIO device will handle), or an Ultimate Cart (my own project) which will emulate just about any cartridge type from SD card.

That's a good idea, but will only work (if someone could hack the ROM) using the soft-driver setup described above. The U1MB PBI BIOS disables the ROM on SIDE2, but when SDX itself is booted from SIDE, typing CAR: jumps into whatever is in the upper half of the ROM. SIDE2 is also able to emulate a 16KB cart (occupying $8000-$BFFF) if desired.

Edited March 18, 2016 by flashjazzcat

[annomatik]

Well... I'm quite happy with the Side 2, except it does not run .atr and .cas files, and has some problems with some other files, too.

 

So what I did for now, is order one of these Sio2PCs as well, that way I should be able to run .atr and .cas files, as well as save data and maybe even connect to Atari Telnet-BBSes.

 

I'll probably make the Ultimate 1 MB update at some point, too, but one step at a time.