General Emulation Thoughts

[hizzy]

I do like OG hardware. Going to experiment with emulation more once I get my 2600-daptor in the mail!

[gliptitude]

I prefer the real thing but they are two different and awesome things and I do them both.

 

Some stuff will never be adequately emulated, such as Vectrex.

 

With a lot of the emulation I do I'm not really looking for the authentic experience, but rather a new experience. I really like emulators written for consoles, rather than PC's. In the past I was playing NES games and mono GB games on a GB Micro with an emulator. These days I'm playing Virtual Boy games with 3D glasses and Atari paddle games with motion controllers via emulators on a Wii. .. Also playing a lot of other games that I would just never end up tracking down or buying.

 

Overall though I think emulators are better suited to testing than to actual gaming.

[Inky]

I prefer playing on real hardware, but that's not always an option. I live in a small town where the nearest two arcades to me are 50 and 70 miles away. I can't always get there, so if I want a quick Gyruss fix, I have to emulate.

It also lets one sample games they may have never otherwise have played without risk. It also allows one to sample games never released in the US. On Pie Factory episode 16, we talked about a game named Tinkle Pit that was never released in the US. It was fun playing and exploring a game neither of us had ever heard of.

There's certainly a place for both emulation or real hardware. It's all just a mater of preference and physical space for the hardware.

[Keatah]

Or just go buy a real Gyruss machine. That way you won't get scorned and looked down upon. If you use emulation, better keep it a secret!

[Flojomojo]

It's so weird, here I sit in middle age, wondering if there's a classic arcade worth visiting within a reasonable drive, when I have everything I ever dreamed of as an arcade-visting kid ... all on flash drives and playable with better screens and sounds than the old days ever brought.

 

As Mister Spock says, “After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but is often true.”

 

[phoenixdownita]

As Mister Spock says, “After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but is often true.” [/size]

So true ... I wonder if this is the drive that made me collect in the first place (the "wanting") but then not really enjoying all that much after all (the "having") aside the nostalgia moment.

 

Emulation may play in the middle because it is a sort of not really having while still wanting, sometimes it plays for you (meaning it avoids the having altogether) other times it's the opposite (wanting even more until having it's the only option).

I'm sure if I had space and money I'd have a giant ass arcade downstairs ... I have neither in the required quantities so MAME it is .... and so far for the best (I have to admit that the Darius II triple screen look so bad-ass ..... me so want!!!!)

[Keatah]

So true ... I wonder if this is the drive that made me collect in the first place (the "wanting") but then not really enjoying all that much after all (the "having") aside the nostalgia moment.

 

Emulation may play in the middle because it is a sort of not really having while still wanting, sometimes it plays for you (meaning it avoids the having altogether) other times it's the opposite (wanting even more until having it's the only option).

I'm sure if I had space and money I'd have a giant ass arcade downstairs ... I have neither in the required quantities so MAME it is .... and so far for the best (I have to admit that the Darius II triple screen look so bad-ass ..... me so want!!!!)

 

Emulation will fuck with your mind. Not all of us are able to understand or handle the resulting combination of war & peace.. of the battle that begins to rage in your head.

 

But Mr. Spock is right, the last high-dollar item I acquired for the Apple II is no longer that desirable once I got it. But before getting it, it just consumed me 24/7.

[Keatah]

It's so weird, here I sit in middle age, wondering if there's a classic arcade worth visiting within a reasonable drive, when I have everything I ever dreamed of as an arcade-visting kid ... all on flash drives and playable with better screens and sounds than the old days ever brought.

 

Ohh I agree.. However, there is no arcade worth traveling all day to get to. Not in this day and age. Any local classic arcade will usually get bug out of your system.

 

I'm not sure I ever had a desire to go back to the arcade for the atmosphere or environment. Not recently. Not with all the superior capability available to us at home.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Keatah

[Flojomojo]

 

Ohh I agree.. However, there is no arcade worth traveling all day to get to. Not in this day and age. Any local classic arcade will usually get bug out of your system.

 

I'm not sure I ever had a desire to go back to the arcade for the atmosphere or environment. Not recently. Not with all the superior capability available to us at home.

Yeah, it took a few tries, but seeing the burned in CRTs and wobbly controls at a particularly badly maintained place really made me rethink my obsessions.

[Keatah]

The arcades gave the illusion of being nicely maintained back in the day because everything was new. All they had to do was wash the glass and clean the greasy sweat from the controls.

 

It seems that most Arcade cabinets had an unofficial design life of 2 - 3 years. Then the operators were expected to buy new and better games. So after that 3 years maintenance increased quite a bit. At least that's what I was told.

 

What bothered me was seeing the back room of the arcade maintenance shop - games in pieces and various stages of rebuilding. And I talked to the technician and it was such an impersonal attitude toward the games. Any one game in the shop was just any old game, a piece of capital equipment designed to make money and nothing else. The artwork, the style, the gameplay. In the shop none of that mattered. Get it working, get it back on the floor. They didn't give a shit.

 

And the pristine all-perfect god-like standing arcade machines held was reduced to bean counting and bookkeeping. Tempest suddenly looked like Donkey Kong. Tac/Scan sounded like Blasteroids. Ughh..

[phoenixdownita]

The arcades gave the illusion of being nicely maintained back in the day because everything was new. All they had to do was wash the glass and clean the greasy sweat from the controls.

 

It seems that most Arcade cabinets had an unofficial design life of 2 - 3 years. Then the operators were expected to buy new and better games. So after that 3 years maintenance increased quite a bit. At least that's what I was told.

 

What bothered me was seeing the back room of the arcade maintenance shop - games in pieces and various stages of rebuilding. And I talked to the technician and it was such an impersonal attitude toward the games. Any one game in the shop was just any old game, a piece of capital equipment designed to make money and nothing else. The artwork, the style, the gameplay. In the shop none of that mattered. Get it working, get it back on the floor. They didn't give a shit.

 

And the pristine all-perfect god-like standing arcade machines held was reduced to bean counting and bookkeeping. Tempest suddenly looked like Donkey Kong. Tac/Scan sounded like Blasteroids. Ughh..

So ... business as usual.

[Flojomojo]

The arcades gave the illusion of being nicely maintained back in the day because everything was new. All they had to do was wash the glass and clean the greasy sweat from the controls.

 

It seems that most Arcade cabinets had an unofficial design life of 2 - 3 years. Then the operators were expected to buy new and better games. So after that 3 years maintenance increased quite a bit. At least that's what I was told.

 

What bothered me was seeing the back room of the arcade maintenance shop - games in pieces and various stages of rebuilding. And I talked to the technician and it was such an impersonal attitude toward the games. Any one game in the shop was just any old game, a piece of capital equipment designed to make money and nothing else. The artwork, the style, the gameplay. In the shop none of that mattered. Get it working, get it back on the floor. They didn't give a shit.

 

And the pristine all-perfect god-like standing arcade machines held was reduced to bean counting and bookkeeping. Tempest suddenly looked like Donkey Kong. Tac/Scan sounded like Blasteroids. Ughh..

In other words, commerce vs "art," just like today, just like always. Games have always been commodities, primarily existing to make money. We put our favorites on a pedestal because they were special to us. At best, the companies that created them consider them commercial intellectual property to be mined for profits, even decades later. At worst, they're forgotten and discarded.

 

It's the same way with modern games that you piss on for being Skinner boxes. Today's kids will remember Clash of Clans, Candy Crush, and Temple Run fondly. Most of them will have spent less money than we did in the 25c per play era.

 

In my heart, I'd like to visit that classic game museum set up by the Digital Press guy, even though my brain knows I can see it all on KLOV and Archive.org.

[phoenixdownita]

In other words, commerce vs "art," just like today, just like always. Games have always been commodities, primarily existing to make money. We put our favorites on a pedestal because they were special to us.

....

Well said.

 

Now onto understanding the second part of the hobby.

Why can't I stop to those games I actually experienced (for nostalgia reasons it would make sense) and instead I got suckered into expanding the collection to anything and everything in sight? ..... that I don't know, maybe I was building up on top of the nostalgia to see where it landed? Unsure, at a certain point it switched from "Remember when.Play again" (oh the irony in that sentence) to "I want more", to where I stand now with a "wtf was that all about!?!".

[Flojomojo]

It's probably deeply rooted in human nature to grab all you can while you're young and poor, remember what it was like when you're sitting on it in middle age (while upgrading to nicer things), then having your kids get rid of your hoarded belongings when you're old and gone.

[Gentlegamer]

I love hooking my laptop up to my TV and playing MAME games in crystal clear quality, with dip switches available, pausing, save states, or infinite credits if I want to.

 

However, nothing will ever resurrect the feeling having six players around an X-Men arcade cab, or 4 around a TMNT/The Simpsons.

 

Or getting to the end of Double Dragon and ganking your friend who didn't know about getting the girl.

[Keatah]

Well said.

 

Now onto understanding the second part of the hobby.

Why can't I stop to those games I actually experienced (for nostalgia reasons it would make sense) and instead I got suckered into expanding the collection to anything and everything in sight? ..... that I don't know, maybe I was building up on top of the nostalgia to see where it landed? Unsure, at a certain point it switched from "Remember when.Play again" (oh the irony in that sentence) to "I want more", to where I stand now with a "wtf was that all about!?!".

 

I keep leaning more and more to dumping a hugely comprehensive Apple II collection and going back to the basics I had in grade school and highschool. All the stuff I purchased after that is really just that, shit. Though some of it has appreciated very nicely.

[Keatah]

I love hooking my laptop up to my TV and playing MAME games in crystal clear quality, with dip switches available, pausing, save states, or infinite credits if I want to.

 

However, nothing will ever resurrect the feeling having six players around an X-Men arcade cab, or 4 around a TMNT/The Simpsons.

 

Or getting to the end of Double Dragon and ganking your friend who didn't know about getting the girl.

 

That! And switching between games more deftly than Fred Astaire. The other two experiences I cannot relate to because I didn't get into those specific games.

 

But I had my moments and flights of fancy⁽¹⁾. Ohh hellyah!! When I had a crowd gathering behind me at Missile Command or Assault or especially Gyruss I just absolutely swelled up and felt like the lightning bolt attack force. A rush better than 2 lines! I was strong enough to break all the machines at the gym.

 

All they had to do was play Alan Parsons' Prime Time or Styx' Renegade. I was T-O-T-A-L-L-Y U-N-S-T-O-P-P-A-B-L-E!! Clearing level after level. Doing my Slurpee. Spinning around, in-game and in front of the cabinet. Once I knew I had a level cleared I'd close my eyes, slither off to the side, and give the crowd that tch'gotcha pistol-finger look. Warp to the next level. It was a blast! I couldn't get out of my skin fast enough before the onslaught began again. But I had it in the bag. I was God. I knew it. Other people knew it. The operator came over. Security came over. The whole crowd clamoring, surging, to get a look. Paramedics standing by. All in amazement at the greatness that was me and the machine melded as one. A guy was on the horn with the power company asking for more. News crews, helicopters, a flying demonstration team.. Bagghhh.. I was used to that happening.

 

These were the best of times without question. Only at the Arrrrrrr-cade!

 

And back at home I remember using my PointMaster joystick and playing Defender and gyrating into positions that would horrify a Yoga therapist.

 

1- From a previous post.

[RodLightning]

It's probably deeply rooted in human nature to grab all you can while you're young and poor, remember what it was like when you're sitting on it in middle age (while upgrading to nicer things), then having your kids get rid of your hoarded belongings when you're old and gone.

 

Ouch. That should be put in the wisdom thread. Sometimes the truth hurts. I need to go into a dark room for a while and brood. I hope to emerge later back in a state of blissful denial.

 

I'm presently setting up a pc based gaming machine with all the consoles and games I own, mirrored in emulation. If the real hardware ever goes, I have the virtual backup so all is not lost. This is the value of emulation to me, a highly personalized backup of my particular collection.

[Keatah]

Well said.

 

Now onto understanding the second part of the hobby.

Why can't I stop to those games I actually experienced (for nostalgia reasons it would make sense) and instead I got suckered into expanding the collection to anything and everything in sight? ..... that I don't know, maybe I was building up on top of the nostalgia to see where it landed? Unsure, at a certain point it switched from "Remember when.Play again" (oh the irony in that sentence) to "I want more", to where I stand now with a "wtf was that all about!?!".

 

I don't know precisely either. But I have a pretty good idea. There's likely a desire to go back to the "discovery" era of things. When you were first learning the stuff. Those were the best of times.

 

The "discovery" thing isn't as recognizable as the well-defined "nostalgia" thing. But I bet it's a better and more powerful force. It'd be like trying to get more nostalgia with nostalgia getting in the way.

 

Stay true to your roots, your beginnings, and I bet you'll have more fun than baggie-chasing every single game available.. Every single bit of hardware..

[Keatah]

I'm presently setting up a pc based gaming machine with all the consoles and games I own, mirrored in emulation. If the real hardware ever goes, I have the virtual backup so all is not lost. This is the value of emulation to me, a highly personalized backup of my particular collection.

 

I'd recommend doing a series of good quality photos to go with it. It won't take a lot of space. Do individual carts, machines, show some in use, get various angles. Use the best camera available for the task.

 

And when you're done, backup the backup. Modern computer media is not as durable as a VCS mask-rom cartridge.

[Schizophretard]

Well said.

 

Now onto understanding the second part of the hobby.

Why can't I stop to those games I actually experienced (for nostalgia reasons it would make sense) and instead I got suckered into expanding the collection to anything and everything in sight? ..... that I don't know, maybe I was building up on top of the nostalgia to see where it landed? Unsure, at a certain point it switched from "Remember when.Play again" (oh the irony in that sentence) to "I want more", to where I stand now with a "wtf was that all about!?!".

For me, expanding the collection to anything and everything in sight was my mind set back then. It was all about looking at retail stores, garage sales, thrift stores, flea markets, friends' and family's houses, etc. for new games and systems to experience. The only real differences are now I can search globally and am not limited to my parents' money.

 

I'm not even sure if nostalgia plays into it much because it wasn't like there was a time I moved on, later had a longing for the past, and then went back to it. It was more like never leaving the way I approached gaming and just brought my way of going about it in the past all the way up to the present. For an example, if I got into the XBOX ONE I would go about it the same way I do with old systems by wanting to explore it all and nostalgia couldn't even play into it because I have never even played an XBOX ONE.

[madhatter667]

I am glad that this has generated some discussion, and that it is not an all or nothing, either side of the fence ordeal. \

I enjoy discovering new stuff. Emulation is a pretty risk free way to do that. Let's me try before I buy so to speak. I like real hardware, so my goals are eventually to buy... but I also get the digital backup to physical items.

 

Once upon a time, I owned a pretty healthy number of consoles. 20+. That was hard to collect for, and hard to manage libraries for. I had a binder, with lists from AA and from Digital Press for tracking stuff. Actually found it again. Clearly not up to date anymore. I like the number of consoles I have now, easier to manage, though with the "discovery" of flash media for most of the systems... shrinking the physical library size, or using that as a primary loading interface is incredibly tempting.

 

I always get what interest me. Whether physical, or digital. I actually need to sort out the chaff from some of my romsets.

[phoenixdownita]

For me, expanding the collection to anything and everything in sight was my mind set back then.

...

 

I'm not even sure if nostalgia plays into it much because it wasn't like there was a time I moved on, ...

Well, maybe in your case you have it in you ... I mean the hoarding gene (no offense meant).

 

I do not tend to hoard for modern systems at all. The existence of ROMz made the "hoarding" much easier for sure for old systems, that and flashcarts and I'm all set.

The price of ODEs is still too high for my taste and DL whole sets is also very time consuming .... for now until the gears break I don't mind swapping CDs and only for the few dozens of games that pique my interest .... I have not spent much time with DVD isos yet, did a couple but nothing major as I have no attachment/compulsion yet for the systems that run on them (Y2K+ they all do).

Incredibly I didn't even try yet to softmod my Wii and "hoard" all the games on a USB HDD .... it may happen or I may get past all of it ... who knows.

 

Regarding retro I got fixated on systems I didn't have rather than the ones I actually had, those got to be in the mix but see way less obsession .... looks like I am out for revenge .... I didn't have them way back when but I can have them now ... so I've gotta prove I can have them kind of deal .... my guess I am no shrink.

Truth be told there are systems that definitely had me wow once I got them: PCE (in its Duo-R incarnation in my case) and NeoGeo (I wanted a consolized MVS but only managed to score a "cheap" AES). Both of those for me are really sights to behold as the relative pinnacle of their generation (PCE is the best 8bits I've seen bar none, the NeoGeo the best 16bits I've seen again bar none). That is not to say they have the best games and some genres are not represent at all actually, at any rate there's plenty to be enjoyed across all systems.

 

Also I ended up purchasing exotic systems just because .... for example a Nec PC-FX or an Amstrad GX4000 .... needless to say they don't get played a lot.

And in my case I don't even have the shelf space to proudly display most of them, so they sit in tupperware in a closet piled up waiting for their play time .... some of them I haven't touched in many months .... disgusting to think of it.

[opeygon]

I've actually just gone through the same experience as madhatter667. I've been collecting AND emulating for years, but I recently moved and I'm also going to be a dad for the first time later this year. So I had to make the painful decision to sell my ENTIRE collection. I just sold it yesterday to a local game shop here in Phoenix for $1200. I had a nice sized collection of classic consoles, games, boxes ect...the only thing I kept was a NES controller that was modded to USB and a more modern USB controller with lots of buttons. Like I said I've been emulating for many years ao I have several emulators and all the roms for my favorite systems (most of which I used to physically own) and MAME for arcade games.

 

Anyways, it was hard to sell it all off, but I feel like a little bit of a weight has been lifted off my shoulders and I'm looking forward to a future of full time emulation. I'm just trying to focus on all the pros of emulation.

[Keatah]

In time you'll come to seriously appreciate the reliability, versatility, consistency, and convenience emulation has to offer. It really shines in comparison to fighting against balky & bulky original hardware. Not to mention all the time spent maintaining or even just acquiring the physical items. And with all the extras emulation has to offer, you'll find it a better way to game now and in the future.

 

What emulation doesn't get right today it will likely get right tomorrow. Many emus are in active development and slowly getting better over time.

 

My own personal balance is keeping just a couple of original things from back in the day, getting rid of the rest, and going full-time for emulation. And remember, "emulation" can include documentation, technical, magazine scans, and other material too!

 

And don't forget, emulation will let you play games that are out of reach or forever unavailable to you. Games that are impractical to acquire, and all that.

 

No platform except emulation allows you to segue from Atari VCS Miniature Golf -to- Sony PS1 RidgeRacer Type R4 -to- Arcade Gyruss -to- Arcade I'Robot -to- Astrocade Pinball -to- Arcade Tac/Scan, all in one evening. And to top it all off, the hardware is reliable, cheap, and readily available.

 

When you factor in the comforts of home, playing out on the patio, your hot-bitch wife bringing you a crushed-ice whiskey lemonade, you'll never want to go to the arcade again or baggie-chase overpriced consoles on ebay (which typically need cleanup and pm).

Edited April 19, 2016 by Keatah