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Are Microsoft and Sony coming out with upgraded XB1 and PS4?


Bilnick

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If done right, I don't think they would be doing anyone a disservice. I posted my thoughts here: http://armchairarcade.com/perspectives/2016/03/21/quick-thoughts-potential-playstation-4-5-xbox-one-5/

 

Essentially if they just allow for better native 4K compatibility and didn't allow for software that could only take advantage of the updated version of the hardware and not work on the original hardware, they should have no issues. The key would be in the messaging to stave off any knee-jerk reactions.

 

I agree that having different tiers of Hardware would theoretically not affect People with the original Hardware. But who says Sony will enforce that every game will run well on the original PS4? This was never in playce during the PS3 times, with many games running very poorly and some rare cases even broken, and even now the PS4 already gets games running at Sub par framerates. So with 2 different specs out there, there is a Chance some games will just not run that great on the older System, specially if the newer one sells a lot.

 

Again, in theory it's 100% true. Just like in theory even a very outdated PC could run all games. You just have to make it that scalable. The question is, who is gonna make it, and how will this be enforced? Sony might even want the experience on the original to be a bit lackluster to push People to buy the new model... But all in all they always supported their Hardware very well, so I doubt they would completely screw over the customers.

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Even if they do enforce backwards compatibility, it's no guarantee that every game would perform well. They're already pretty liberal from time to time in what they consider playable as it is, with games like that disaster from Ubisoft a couple of years back still managing to get through quality assurance certification.

 

About the only thing going in its favor if this comes to pass is economics. An awful lot of PS4's and XB1's have already been sold and no publisher in their right mind is going to want to forgo selling to those millions of existing owners.

Edited by Atariboy
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Even if they do enforce backwards compatibility, it's no guarantee that every game would perform well. They're already pretty liberal from time to time in what they consider playable as it is, with games like that disaster from Ubisoft a couple of years back still managing to get through quality assurance certification.

 

 

 

Bolded to show emphasis.

 

Yeah, both Sony and Microsoft have been far too loose with their concept of "compatibility" for the last two generations. Whenever the concept is brought up, their inner Mike Kennedy says "Yep! We can do that! By the way, it'll cost ya." Meanwhile, the actual list of working games is short, and the list of bugs is long. Given that, I have no faith in either to split the existing user base in a manner that makes any sense.

 

At the most optimistic, I would think that the consoles could be revised to graphics cards with slightly better abilities, and output 4K for streaming and prerecorded media. They will NOT change the games in any meaningful capacity, this would strictly be fringe benefits for late adopters.

 

I almost wonder if this is a game of "chicken" between Sony and Microsoft, each seeing who can claim they're going to do it (without actually doing it) the longest. The one who breaks and pushes out a half-measured console gets to deal with the fallout. Not unlike how both Sony and Microsoft talked about crazy DRM prior the their system launches, and when MS actually committed to it, Sony backpedaled in a hurry. Something similar happened when MS announced backwards compatibility.

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There's another problem with this:

 

Mark my words. I guarantee you.... I GUARANTEE you, that despite them saying it's just a better looking alternative, and that all your games will run just fine on the old PS4/XB1, that one day a high profile developer will come along and basically say this: "Well, this game here really just takes advantage of everything PS4.5623 ver 9 has to offer, and in order to make the game world as impressive as possible, we had to leave the old PS4 behind. We'd love to offer this amazing experience to everyone, but this will be a PS4.5623 ver 9 exclusive".

 

And that'll be the way Sony and MS get people to upgrade. Because even Nintendo did the same bull with the New 3DS, and the system isn't even that much more powerful than the first one. Granted there's only a couple games that are exclusive, outside of SNES games, but they still tried it and it has largely worked for them as the new version is selling pretty well to people who've already upgraded twice in the past (from original 3DS to XL).

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I suspect this is all just PR buzz to gather research towards the PS5 or the Xbox uh, Two. There would be no reason to update yet, for most people. Hell many people I know only recently moved up to the PS4. 4K content is only now coming around, so things like a 4K Blu-ray drive would be a good idea for the PS5.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2016/03/18/sony-is-reportedly-developing-a-playstation-4-5-for-4k-gaming/

 

This article mentions "PS4's aging hardware"!!?? Holy s---. I'm still waiting for the AAA knock-my-socks-off type games on the PS4 (that aren't the usual yearly cash grabs like Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty) like Uncharted, Resident Evil and the like. We haven't even seen the best of what the PS4 is capable of, and already it's obsolete. Guess I'm expecting too much from developers these days.

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This article mentions "PS4's aging hardware"!!?? Holy s---. I'm still waiting for the AAA knock-my-socks-off type games on the PS4 (that aren't the usual yearly cash grabs like Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty) like Uncharted, Resident Evil and the like. We haven't even seen the best of what the PS4 is capable of, and already it's obsolete. Guess I'm expecting too much from developers these days.

 

The PS4 is literally a custom AMD APU. It's entry Level Hardware. It was "obsolete" the day it came out. You won't see anyone taking more out of this, because the architecture was very well known from day 1. It's a PC with integrated graphics. The only reason it Looks so good is because it's a console, so you can optimize the games better. Now, 2 years after it's release the PS4 is laughably weak in comparison to the new tech out there. The Performance is on par with the worse Nvidia GTX Card in production right now...

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When it comes to consoles, pretty much when it comes out, it is already very obsolete, and it is never made from the latest and greatest PC parts. The reason why the games look nicer than one would expect is that a console does not have to deal with running an entire operating system, etc etc.

 

People find them appealing for many reasons that are too long to list here. Of course, starting with the last generation, one big advantage has been lost.... things working out of the box. Now everything requires some multi gigabyte day 1 patch. There is still some content that generally only shows up on a console. First party titles (Mario, Uncharted, etc) and niche jrpg comes to mind. Content is everything, but less is getting exclusive to consoles, so why would MS and Sony waste time providing what is a minor upgrade? Not worth it.

 

As for expanding the current consoles, there isn't much wiggle room, hence the big disadvantage to consoles. AFAIK, the PS4 and Xbox One have USB 3 ports. So that is 5 Gbps. Aside from storage, what can one do with that aside from adding storage? It does allow for more elaborate peripherals, but yea... those sell really well.

 

USB 3.1 is 10 Gps. A USB type C connector can incorporate that. Adapters can have it do all sorts of things. Thunderbolt can offer more options. You can have an enclosure that has a PCI express slot for a higher end video card. I remember someone taking a MacBook Air and turning into what was a midrange gaming PC at the time. I don't have the link anymore, but it was horribly expensive and complicated, but it was proof of concept where someone could take something with rather limited capabilities and make it into something that can do more.

 

Other than Macs and high end PCs (are there any that include it?), the use of thunderbolt is limited and devices are very expensive. It was (and still is) too expensive to include into something like a gaming console, and USB 3.1 with a type C connection didn't exist yet. From what I understand, the latter costs less, so maybe it will be included into the next generation of consoles (likely to be one of the last, I think).

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If there was to be a PS4.5 I would be greatly disappointed. After I dumped $500 into a new console only a couple years ago I expected to get the same type of longevity out of the PS4 as was previously provided with the PS3 and the PS2 before it.

 

It does not really matter, unless you already sprung for a 4K TV.

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If there was to be a PS4.5 I would be greatly disappointed. After I dumped $500 into a new console only a couple years ago I expected to get the same type of longevity out of the PS4 as was previously provided with the PS3 and the PS2 before it.

 

I think the idea is that it would allow the equivalent of "high" or "ultra" PC settings, and play at "medium" settings (generally the conclusion of Digital Foundry comparisons for PS4 and Xbone) on the original system.

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It does not really matter, unless you already sprung for a 4K TV.

 

And even then... that video might be close on the mark. An updated console will play 4K blu-rays and stream movies, but for games, all it will do is upscale the 1080p to 4k. So, unless one plans to spring for a TV, it won't mean much.

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I was going to make point cybercylon made about PC hardware based consoles never really using the cutting edge PC components, so thus are 'out of date' pretty much by time hardware reaches the market.

Dreamcast, 360 etc...all rapidly over taken by PC hardware, but such is the nature of the platforms.
Developers unlock Cores, uncap CPU speeds (PSP for example), fit more on a DVD (360), so developers have a little more wriggle-room, but if you want the cutting edge hardware, your looking at a PC not a console.
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You would Need to have a beastly PC to top a PS3 as it was released, and it tool some time for mid range PCs to catch up. As for the PS4, it was released at the Level of current mid range PC Hardware in Terms of real life Performance, entry Level PC Hardware in Terms of raw power.

 

This Generation is very weak in Terms of Hardware. There's no denying itr, or reason to try to deny it. I think it was a very good choice. I wish These companies would embrance this choice and just stop this whole fight for who has the most power. People just want to Play games. People who want awesome powerful Hardware are (or at least should be) on PC.

 

Specially the PS4, IMO is an amazing Piece of Hardware. It's small, it Looks decent, and it was released mere 100 Dollars more expensive than the PS3 with same HD capacity. That was a huge feat considering how much more powerful the PS4 is than the PS3. But somehow People aren't happy with it being cheap and good enough. They have to compare dumb specs that don't really mean anything for the end user experience.

 

I just wish more games were released running at 60fps. Ony reason they're not is unnecessary eye candy.

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I am quite happy with the PS4, actually. Yes, it is weak hardware wise compared to today's mid range PC, but it is still good at what it is intended for. I don't personally need the absolute best graphics possible.

 

I have nothing PC wise that can play Fallout 4 at any reasonable resolution/speed. I had (still have) that for Skyrim, so I miss that aspect for Fallout 4. Fallout 4 on a console is better than no option

 

Enoofu made a good point in that most people don't have a high end PC anyway. Those that do either want it for games or do something on a regular basis that requires some horse power (either for a hobby or for work). For the former group, building your own may be a good route. My son is saving up to build his own PC gaming rig.

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Definitely happening and going to drop at E3 2016, along with the Nintendo NX. It's like a reboot of the entire current generation.

 

So do you think there will be something more than the ability to play 4k video and games upscaled to 4k? Too soon for anything more than that unless there are peripherals where the USB 3 ports are usable...

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So do you think there will be something more than the ability to play 4k video and games upscaled to 4k? Too soon for anything more than that unless there are peripherals where the USB 3 ports are usable...

 

I believe both systems will have more power under the hood. Xbox so it can escape the stigma of being the less powerful system and the PS4 so it can dedicate the extra horsepower to the PSVR. I also believe that new console games will run on a sliding scale based on specs, like with PC games.

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I believe both systems will have more power under the hood. Xbox so it can escape the stigma of being the less powerful system and the PS4 so it can dedicate the extra horsepower to the PSVR. I also believe that new console games will run on a sliding scale based on specs, like with PC games.

 

Perhaps... if this is done poorly, that would be a train wreck. If I were Sony, I would probably error on being a bit on the conservative side and making sure that I am still serving those customers that already have a PS4 just fine. They are still in a good position as it is.

 

Yea... MS's console does have that stigma, but again, they sold enough, so I would think that they won't want to do something too drastic that pisses their current customers off.

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I don't really follow Nintendo hardware per say, i was aware of the 2DS etc, but this kind of took me by surprise:

So, another hardware revision, but with a more powerful CPU and extra Ram added, offering developers option of improved frame rates/better textures.
Extra Ram nothing new, Sony did it with later PSP models, improved loading times, let you use SKYPE etc, but i did raise an eyebrow at the Quad Core CPU.
Suddenly the concept of Sony/MS offering revised models of PS4/XB1 with newer, more powerful chipsets under the hood doesn't seem out of place at all.
If Nintendo can do it and nobody seems all up in arms, i cannot see why the concept cannot be applied to home systems, not just portables.
You risk fragmenting the user base, but if 1 does it, why not all?.
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I don't really follow Nintendo hardware per say, i was aware of the 2DS etc, but this kind of took me by surprise:

So, another hardware revision, but with a more powerful CPU and extra Ram added, offering developers option of improved frame rates/better textures.
Extra Ram nothing new, Sony did it with later PSP models, improved loading times, let you use SKYPE etc, but i did raise an eyebrow at the Quad Core CPU.
Suddenly the concept of Sony/MS offering revised models of PS4/XB1 with newer, more powerful chipsets under the hood doesn't seem out of place at all.
If Nintendo can do it and nobody seems all up in arms, i cannot see why the concept cannot be applied to home systems, not just portables.
You risk fragmenting the user base, but if 1 does it, why not all?.

 

 

 

The big divider is that (at least in the past) Nintendo has managed to avoid that fragmentation by making sure that few games made for the new iteration cannot be played on the old one. In the cases where they've upgraded hardware (DS and N64) there have been fewer than five games that are totally unplayable on the old platform. I think there's some skepticism that MS or Sony will be able to control developers that tightly, or that they even have a desire to.

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The big divider is that (at least in the past) Nintendo has managed to avoid that fragmentation by making sure that few games made for the new iteration cannot be played on the old one. In the cases where they've upgraded hardware (DS and N64) there have been fewer than five games that are totally unplayable on the old platform. I think there's some skepticism that MS or Sony will be able to control developers that tightly, or that they even have a desire to.

 

I would think how a game like Perfect Dark on the N64 worked would be what we'll see from Sony and Microsoft assuming the rumors are true, i.e., if you have the RAM pack/faster system, the game will perform better and at a potentially higher resolution. Like I linked to in my post earlier, the best model we have to look to is the PC, but since these are consoles we're talking about, we can have a more predictable performance curve. It may be as simple as keeping games locked in at 1080p/60 versus 1080p/30 or 720p/60, or even occasionally 4k/30 for less demanding games, plus video-only content native 4k. It may also be equivalent to what we have in the mobile space with Android and iOS devices, with the newer generations increasing resolution or performance but still running the same exact stuff.

 

With the above in mind, I don't think the New Nintendo 3DS approach is workable on the console side for this particular generation where some games only work on the New Nintendo 3DS and not on the older version of the hardware. It will have to be a requirement from up top that all games must still work on the original hardware. I think Sony and Microsoft will make the right call in that regard.

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@godslabrat:

Thanks for the post, i was going to ask those that follow Nintendo, just how they manage to keep the user base 'happy' as they seem very keen on hardware revisions.
GBA-GBA SP, then Micro.
Numerous revisions to the DS and 3DS lines.
Do early adopters not feel 'burned' as it were at times?.
Also are we not in danger of returning to the Atari days of the A8 and ST era?
Why buy a machine now when no doubt there will be an annoucement promising a new model?
XL/XE/XE GS....
STF, STFM, STE, CDST....
Not that CBM was much different...
The new improved 3DS does seem to have appeared at an odd time in the machines life.
Are there that many developers publishing on 3DS who will really take advantage of the new hardware?
And do 3DS games get patches?.
Hopefully not a stupid question, but i wondered if any developer would bother patching code to improve frame rates on older games,now they've more CPU power avaiable.
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