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Are Microsoft and Sony coming out with upgraded XB1 and PS4?


Bilnick

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Consoles are always outdated, since it usually takes 2-3 years for them to hit market.

 

PC's aren't usually top of the line either, as quite a few people buy budget rigs, which are pretty close to Consoles in power.

 

Very true. So many people bitch and complain about paying a whopping $800 for a computer but expect it to run max settings across the board in 1440 on the latest games but pay about the same for a phone... and they're complaining. I think it's amazing that you can get so much out of such a cheap computer these days. Only those who lived through buying $2,400 computers with a 486 and a 33.6 dial-up modem can truly appreciate how far we've come and the level of advancements made since the included Mega Race CDs that used to come with our very expensive computers of the 90s.

 

...People who want awesome powerful Hardware are (or at least should be) on PC...

 

..I just wish more games were released running at 60fps. Ony reason they're not is unnecessary eye candy...

 

It's kind of hand and hand, isn't it? You don't get one without the other? Consoles do some pretty amazing things for their retail pricing! I think expecting any box costing $299 to push 60+ frames a second in HD is kind of pushing it. Then again, in another 10 years time, it'll be cakewalk and a fraction of the price I gather.

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@Bill:

Been years since i had my N64 and Perfect Dark (last played the remake on 360), but without the expansion pack, couldn't you only play around 35% of the game?.
Therefore in essence you needed the extra Ram for the full game where as something like
Turok II you could play, only in a lower resolution etc?.
I'd need a greater understanding of how the industry works with regards to how much 'control' Sony/MS would have over how developers used extra power of PS4.5/XB1.5 or what ever they end up being called, but i seem to recal during the Dreamcast era, Sega could only 'encourage' developers to use the 60HZ option avaiable to them in producing DC games, they couldn't actually enforce it, so maybe that'll be the approach here?.
Sony seemed to imply with PS2 they'd given developers a lot of raw horsepower, upto them how they allocated resources (as developers had told them they wanted the freedom to 'code to the metal') so again, at this stage i assume they'd do the same.
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@godslabrat:

 

Thanks for the post, i was going to ask those that follow Nintendo, just how they manage to keep the user base 'happy' as they seem very keen on hardware revisions.

 

GBA-GBA SP, then Micro.

 

Numerous revisions to the DS and 3DS lines.

 

Do early adopters not feel 'burned' as it were at times?.

 

 

Also are we not in danger of returning to the Atari days of the A8 and ST era?

 

Why buy a machine now when no doubt there will be an annoucement promising a new model?

 

XL/XE/XE GS....

 

STF, STFM, STE, CDST....

 

 

Not that CBM was much different...

 

 

The new improved 3DS does seem to have appeared at an odd time in the machines life.

 

Are there that many developers publishing on 3DS who will really take advantage of the new hardware?

 

And do 3DS games get patches?.

 

Hopefully not a stupid question, but i wondered if any developer would bother patching code to improve frame rates on older games,now they've more CPU power avaiable.

@Lost Dragon,

 

Yes, Early Nintendo adopters feel a bit of burn when the new portable is released. However, it's a pretty minor (and, I would argue, exaggerated) sense of burn. First, the annual "tweaks"

Have been coming since the release of the GBA, so they've had plenty of time to notice the pattern. Second, more to the point, it takes a LONG time for your hardware to be so outdated you can't play games on it anymore. There were at least 4 iterations of the original DS, and yet they al played the same games until the 3DS came along. That's almost a decade of cross-compatibility with no meaningful user fragmentation. Sure, it sucks to not have the bigger screen or the pretty shell colors, but you still have the games, and that's what matters.

 

As I started to say before, publishers have historically been very careful about not utilizing new hardware in such a way that locks out old hardware. I'm not sure if this is just their own business sense or if Nintendo is enforcing some

minimum standard, but either way the end result is pretty encouraging.

 

It should be said, however, that there is no reason to think this will transfer over to the Xbox or PS4. Different style of console, different markets, different company. Could be a whole new result.

 

And yes, DS games get patches.

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The last major uproar i seem to recal from the Nintendo crowd was over the non-backlit GBA screen, but that was years ago and seems to of been forgiven as quickly as the 360 Red Ring Of Death/E74 Error/PSN Hack, people just moved on from it.

 

Had a second hand DS for a while (till it died) just for Aliens and few others, never took it online.

 

And it looks as if it might (this is just a rumour at present) be Sony who blinks 1st and gets upgraded hardware out before MS:

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-03-28-playstation-4-5-to-be-announced-before-october-report

 

This would make sense, in terms of offering PS4 VR game developers more under the hood, but if Sony go for an all-in-1 PS4.5, VR headset, Camera and Move bundle, pricing will be the factor to watch, as doubt it'll come cheap and then your loosing a key factor over rival, more powerful still VR systems....

Edited by Lost Dragon
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The last major uproar i seem to recal from the Nintendo crowd was over the non-backlit GBA screen, but that was years ago and seems to of been forgiven as quickly as the 360 Red Ring Of Death/E74 Error/PSN Hack, people just moved on from it.

 

 

I don't know if people "just moved on" from things like that so much as weren't affected by it and/or made precautions against them.

 

I didn't even know about the non-backlit GBA until loooong after. Mainly because I only had one backlit GBA unit - that apparently was frontlit - and had nothing to compare it to other than the oldest GBAs that had no lighting at all. (I do have a backlit SP now along with 2 frontlit SPs so I can really see the difference.)

 

With the red ring of death, I responded by not picking up a 360 until long after the slim was released and it seemed the issue was mostly patched up. To this day I'd still never touch a phat model of the 360 if I saw it used, regardless of the price because it'll probably get hit with the issue if it hasn't already.

 

With the PSN hack, which happened prior to me getting a PS3 as well, had the effect of no gaming console ever getting a credit card number out of me. If they want me to spend money on their stores, they'll supply prepaid cards I can buy and redeem. (Which I've done, particularly on the PS3 - although my spending on them went sharply downhill after a DLC screwup happened that prevented me from using what I had paid for until they fixed the issue - 2-3 months later. As a result they've pretty much sworn me off of DLC (which I didn't buy much of to begin with, but now I don't have any impulse buy issues. :P) and I've only bought maybe 3-5 things in sales since last summer.

 

Certainly the complaints fall silent eventually, but that's more often just because everything that needs to be said has been said. The people affected by the issues simply don't bother reiterating it on a daily basis and will only bring it up if asked. Case in point: The Sony rootkit issue from like 2005 or whenever it was. When they were putting exploitable software on audio CDs that would silently install onto your computer if you put it in your cd-rom drive. That had the effect of me never buying from Sony Music (ie: audio cds) ever again. I don't bitch about that openly anymore, or haven't for a long time. But. I still don't buy their CDs. (Helps that they haven't released a single thing I'm interested in that I absolutely must listen to since before 2005 I guess. Certainly cost them a few impulse buys though.)

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That was pretty much what I meant, it didn't really harm the sales in the long run.

 

The PSN hack just saw me switch to using pre-paid cards, where as before my debit card details had been stored, I've since bought a PS4,so I didn't abandon Sony because of it.

 

I had an early Elite model 360, no issues with red rings or E74 errors, yet XB1 simply didn't appeal, so I've jot bought it, I never had any fears over reliability that made me think twice about buying another MS console.

 

There did appear to be an inital outcry over GBA screen, but looking at how GBA, DS and 3DS sold, it didn't do any long term harm.

 

Will a revised PS4 aimed at higher end of the market, for those looking for more demanding VR games harm Sony?

 

I'd expect not, as existing PS4 hardware will probably drop in price

and sell even more and before you know it, speculation will start over what will be in the PS5...

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I think this is a serious problem. If this happens to be the case, Sony and Microsoft would be following the smartphone model which might work for companies like Apple or Samsung, but I think this would be terrible for consoles. First, people use video game consoles differently than phones. Second, most of the people who buy consoles want a closed system (I know I do.) Third, I have no idea how many people are that interested in shelling out $400 a 4K PS4 2.0, but I don't think there are that many. Finally and the most important thing I can say, think about all those users who bought a current generation console and were thinking that that box would work for the next seven years. They'd feel betrayed. Also, if this is true, who in their right mind would buy a PS4 right now?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Found info on the newer model PS4, good news for existing owners or still bad news for existing owners depending on your state of mind.:

 

http://www.destructoid.com/new-playstation-4-is-codenamed-neo-buffs-cpu-gpu-and-ram-356213.phtml

 

noe-noscale.jpg

 

source

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/sources-the-upgraded-playstation-4-is-codenamed-ne/1100-5437/

 

 

 

Seriously? After reading that article and those mildly upgraded specs the new model PS4 is simply being made to sell 4K TV's....oh pardon me, as Sony would say it: support 4K TV's.

 

New 3DS all over again.

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Seen the news about PS4 NEO...

 

TLDR; All new games will still run on the basic hardware and have a "NEO mode" where they can add enhancements that make use of the updated hardware. It still won't be 4K resolutions because Sony expects NEO games to run the same frame rate as the normal PS4. This is probably ment more for VR stuff without requiring an add-on box.

 


 

Seriously? After reading that article and those mildly upgraded specs the new model PS4 is simply being made to sell 4K TV's....oh pardon me, as Sony would say it: support 4K TV's.

 

New 3DS all over again.

 

More likely support 4K movies than games. Even on powerful PC's, 4K at 60 fps is still unatainable unless you use two high end GPU cards.

 

Besides, people trade in old systems for new ones all the time and still keep their games...

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Doesn't seem to include support for UHD 4k Blu-Ray's. I was thinking half the reason they were supposedly doing this was to support the new Blu-Ray standard.

 

As someone that wanted to buy a PS4 this year, this news just might make me wait and see how things pan out. I don't want to pay a premium for features I very well might not utilize or could at least do without, but I also don't want to buy an expensive standard PS4 and realize a year later that I made a mistake in not going with the PS4k.

 

I want to make sure that it's the PS4's equivalent of the New 3DS or DS Lite rather than the Game Boy Color...

Edited by Atariboy
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Should be a decent boost on 2K game developement also

 

Just wondering if this is going to confuse consumers, since the PS4 brand has the VR also coming out

I'm always confused by this: What resolution do people call 2k? cause 2k would be 1920x1080. That's half the linear resolution of 4k..

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I'm always confused by this: What resolution do people call 2k? cause 2k would be 1920x1080. That's half the linear resolution of 4k..

 

Generally speaking, you're right, although there are some standards that consider 2K 2048×1080. For television purposes, obviously, all we really need to be concerned about is the usual 1920x1080p and 3840x2160p (4k).

 

In regards to the earlier comments, although right now I only have a 4k TV in our bedroom, if indeed this new PS4 does come out, I'll probably move the family room PS4 (which is hooked up to our Panasonic 1080p plasma) to our bedroom and put the new PS4 in the family room. That where it would see the most use, and even though I wouldn't see a resolution bump, obviously, I'd still welcome the performance/detail boost.

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Yeah I have yet to buy a PS4 or Xbone although my son is totally ready to spend on the Xbone. I have read much of the news covering the possible changes in the works and upgrade possibilities and wonder how well it would work for the average user.

 

Would you buy the kit per say and have to install it yourself?

 

Take it to an authorized dealer or representative (could be a boon to the company that snags that hoping it wont be Walmart)?

 

And then I know its still fairly new but interesting but what about Steam Machines?

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Yeah I have yet to buy a PS4 or Xbone although my son is totally ready to spend on the Xbone. I have read much of the news covering the possible changes in the works and upgrade possibilities and wonder how well it would work for the average user.

 

Would you buy the kit per say and have to install it yourself?

 

Take it to an authorized dealer or representative (could be a boon to the company that snags that hoping it wont be Walmart)?

 

And then I know its still fairly new but interesting but what about Steam Machines?

 

There almost certainly won't be upgrades for either console. If they do anything (and right now, it only seems Sony's is extremely likely) it will be a stand-alone console release. If you're in no rush, definitely wait until the holidays. Not only will there be aggressive deals, but you'll also see if you'd rather own the upgraded console or the original version. Personally, if I were buying new, I'd always go for the upgraded console rather than save some money on the original version, simply because the upgraded console will play all the old stuff as well as all the new stuff coming out better.

 

As for Steam Machines, they're not worth bothering with in my opinion. If you want a console, get a console. Otherwise, you're limited to what will run on the Steam Machine (and only what's in your Steam library, and then only a subset of that), and performance does vary wildly. Certainly the Steam Machines that are closely in price to a PS4 or Xbox One have modest specs (for a PC) at best.

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Yeah the concept of upgrading existing hardware was talked about back with 3DO when the M2 was code named Bulldog, but if memory serves hardware was too different and unit would of been hampered by 3DO's slow CD Drive etc, so that never happened.


What have we had since then?


Sega talking of how Dreamcast could of been expanded as newer graphics cards came out, talked of modular nature of hardware -nothing but talk..



Sony etc want to sell you new hardware, stand alone systems are the best means.


You want best looking PS4 VR games? you'll need the PS4.5.


Your existing base PS4 dies, out of warranty? either pay Sony for a refurb, or spend a bit extra, get a Ps4.5 and another 12 months warranty.


Maybe they'll do what Atari did with the ST range...phase out existing hardware over time.


It wasn't all that long after i'd bought the 520STFM Discovery Pack, before press annouced it was being phased out in favour of the STE as the entry level ST in the UK market.

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Found info on the newer model PS4, good news for existing owners or still bad news for existing owners depending on your state of mind.:

 

http://www.destructoid.com/new-playstation-4-is-codenamed-neo-buffs-cpu-gpu-and-ram-356213.phtml

 

noe-noscale.jpg

 

source

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/sources-the-upgraded-playstation-4-is-codenamed-ne/1100-5437/

 

 

 

Seriously? After reading that article and those mildly upgraded specs the new model PS4 is simply being made to sell 4K TV's....oh pardon me, as Sony would say it: support 4K TV's.

 

New 3DS all over again.

New 3DS all over again ... or perhaps the revision of the PSP that allowed a little overclocking, from 233 to 266Mhz I believe. I am not sure if any software other that Star Wars Battlefront Renegade Squadron supported it. New 3DS has some exclusive games. New PSP never did.

 

I think that's probably a safe, sensible approach. Give a little more overhead to games that can use it, but don't split the marketplace by shutting out people who don't want to buy a whole new system. I know I don't play enough PS4 to care about marginal differences in performance, and I'm not going to touch anything to do with VR, so from where I sit, this makes sense to me.

 

If Xbox goes a similar route, no harm no foul. They can turn the graphics shaders on old Xbox one to "better" and new Xbox one to "best" and only the whoriest of graphics whores would care. Perhaps the games press would make a big hairy deal about it, but I doubt the game-buying public would care very much.

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Just pay attention to the 36 CUs. That's the number of processing units in the card. This means they doubled the ammount of units while still rasing the clock. You're getting over double the ammount of raw processing power. That's a lot for now, since we haven't been seeing leaps in performance for graphics processing yet. When HBM2 comes out maybe it will change things around a bit, but for now progress is slow. Specially on the AMD side.

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And judging by what I've seen from Eurogamer's Digital Foundry for several titles that they've analysed, the PS4 is GPU limited.

 

So not only have they upped the power all around, it should be a much more balanced platform thanks to the significant boost in this area in particular.

 

I don't think we'll see 4k/60 fps AAA titles of course, but I bet that the developers that choose to support this revised hardware will have little trouble hitting 1080p/60 fps targets and more closely rivaling PC hardware in performance.

Edited by Atariboy
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PSP CPU started out capped at 222 Mhz to improve batt.life, Sony then unlocked it to full 333Mhz and God Of War on PSP was 1st title i knew of, to take advantage.

 

Both PS4 and XB1 have seen firmware updates that un;locked extra Core's for developers to tap into...

 

So i guess now upgraded hardware is only route left?.

 

If nothing else, i'd expect PS4.5 versions of games to run it native 1080P where as PS4 versions use Dynamic Scaling or whatever it's called, to change resolution on the fly.

 

Seen it used since the PS3 days with Wipeout HD and belive XB1 and PS4 versions of Doom 4 use it, in order to maintain the 60 fps frame rate.

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