Jump to content
IGNORED

Need help with my computer


Sean39

Recommended Posts

Hi InTVnut

 

Thanks for the information and programs. I did find that the Ram Chip in the ECS is the TMM2016P-1 Chip which is a 2048X8 : 16K memory chip.

Basically it take 8 of these chips to give you 16K of Ram and the ECS only uses one of them.

 

I wish we could find a 4096X4 :16K memory chip.

Then I could stick one of them in replacement of the 2048 byte chip and have 4096 bytes . having 4K of RAM

Is there such a Chip and what would it number be. At least this would be a drop in Chip and the memory would double .

Having 4K of Ram over 2K would be alot better on writing short programs.

 

Toshiba made the TMM2016P-1 which is a 2048 X 8 Ram chip to give 16K of ram if 8 chips were used.

 

What I am thinking is that the chip would come off more like this

 

4096 X 8 to give a total of 32K of Ram with 8 chips. But I would only need to drop one in the ECS to get 4K of Ram

 

This is what intellivision did with the 2048 X 8 chip which would have gave 16K of Ram with 8 chips.

 

I did alot of research to find out this. They still sell the TMM2016P-1 chips and they call it a 2048 X 8 :16K ram chip set

So all I need to find is who has the 4096 bytes chip with the same pin out ,

 

Anyways this would give my daughter at least more ram and I could unsolder the 2K chip and repalce it with a 4K chip.

 

Any thoughts on this. It would be easy to do if I had the correct chip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Everyone

Please look and see if this chip would work

 

The ECS does use a Toshiba TMM2016P-1 chip for the 2 K of Ram

 

This is also a Toshiba chip but has 4 K of ram

 

Toshiba

I had the wrong chips listed and I removed them from the list.

 

 

Also there a chip made by Toshiba TMP47C420AF

There a Chip made by Sanyo LC87F7cc8A

Anyways just looking for that 4K ram chip and this is what I have found so far.

 

 

These are listed as 4K ram Chips.

 

Please and see if these are compatiable. If so this is one way the memory could be up graded in the ECS.

 

Thanks

Edited by Sean39
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Everyone

with alot of Research I found the Chip that has 4K of RAM made by Toshiba and I really wish they had paced this in the ECS. This Chip has 4K of RAM but has 28 pins instead of 24

pins like the TMM1610P-1 chip. This chip is made by toshiba. To bad they did not use this chip instead. There is no way to just drop this chip in place since it has more pins.

The bad thing is they only cost $2.90 aand that would be such a cheap up grade in memory. I am attatching a picture of the chip.

Well this shows the ECS cannot be upgraded by just changing out the existing ram chip to a larger memory chip. Looks like I am stuck

with 2K of RAM fpr my daughter., She will just have to write programs in that amount of space. I hope everyone enjoys the picture.

It did take me along time to find the 4K RAM chip very similiar to the 2K chip that is inside of the ECS.

Thanks

 

 

TC55257PL-10 - 32K x 8-Bit Static RAM -DIP 28 PIN

post-17711-0-29919700-1459235913_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not an electronics engineer, but it appears to me that possibly you could piggyback another TMM2016 onto the original one, if you have an additional line for chip select (?). I don't know the details, or whether the ECS would recognize extra memory anyway. Besides the expansion module probably would drop in value if you modify it, if that is any concern of yours.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi InTVnut

 

Thanks for the information and programs. I did find that the Ram Chip in the ECS is the TMM2016P-1 Chip which is a 2048X8 : 16K memory chip.

Basically it take 8 of these chips to give you 16K of Ram and the ECS only uses one of them.

 

I wish we could find a 4096X4 :16K memory chip.

Then I could stick one of them in replacement of the 2048 byte chip and have 4096 bytes . having 4K of RAM

Is there such a Chip and what would it number be. At least this would be a drop in Chip and the memory would double .

Having 4K of Ram over 2K would be alot better on writing short programs.

 

Toshiba made the TMM2016P-1 which is a 2048 X 8 Ram chip to give 16K of ram if 8 chips were used.

 

What I am thinking is that the chip would come off more like this

 

4096 X 8 to give a total of 32K of Ram with 8 chips. But I would only need to drop one in the ECS to get 4K of Ram

 

This is what intellivision did with the 2048 X 8 chip which would have gave 16K of Ram with 8 chips.

 

I did alot of research to find out this. They still sell the TMM2016P-1 chips and they call it a 2048 X 8 :16K ram chip set

So all I need to find is who has the 4096 bytes chip with the same pin out ,

 

Anyways this would give my daughter at least more ram and I could unsolder the 2K chip and repalce it with a 4K chip.

 

Any thoughts on this. It would be easy to do if I had the correct chip.

 

Just to be sure, even if you could replace the chips, you wouldn't be able to use them. It's not like the ECS has this flexible memory model where it takes whatever is available. It is coded with a specific memory map and the ECS BASIC lets you use up to about 1.5K for your programs.

 

You would have to also change the EXEC and BASIC ROMs, and if you're doing that, may as well replace the entire thing -- which by the way, you could do today already. Just saying'...

 

I think you're hung up in the amount of RAM available to BASIC programs as a limitation. I think you'll find that in practice, it is not. There are many things wrong with the ECS and its BASIC, and memory constraints for user programs is the least of them.

 

-dZ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi DZ

 

yes you are right and I was just trying to get some extra memory. I know the ECS was going to be expandable in memory but also it basic was going to be expanded on too.

As you know that project was cancelled.

 

For right now it good enough for my daughter to start out on.

If she likes it alot and then I will try and get a better computer.

 

I am going to ask this question because I really do not know. Ok we know the basic is not the greatest in the world and the memory is limmited.

You said the ECS had other problems, What kind of other problems does it have???

 

thanks

Edited by Sean39
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi DZ

 

yes you are right and I was just trying to get some extra memory. I know the ECS was going to be expandable in memory but also it basic was going to be expanded on too.

As you know that project was cancelled.

 

For right now it good enough for my daughter to start out on.

If she likes it alot and then I will try and get a better computer.

 

I am going to ask this question because I really do not know. Ok we know the basic is not the greatest in the world and the memory is limmited.

You said the ECS had other problems, What kind of other problems does it have???

 

thanks

 

Your daughter might want to save her work. That will require more hardware in a tape recorder or compatible device and the appropriate cables. The 20x12 character display is a somewhat limited interface, printing your work is possible but would require a special printer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mr Me

 

I do have a tape recorder and found all the cables accept for the small remote cable to come out of the ECS to the tape recorder.

I have the Realistic Model CRT 57 which said it was a really high quallity recorder and was possible to save programs. I tried it and it did save the programs. That was my next question, I have sinclair Thermal printers but they would not hook up to this device.

So what kind of printer do I need to buy that will work with the ECS ?

 

Now I did purchase the game Mr. Basic meets Bits N Bytes and it is complete in the box. Pretty much in mint condition because the lay overs

have not even been cut yet. I also bought Scooby Doo Maze and Mind Strike and that box is still sealed in the original plastic.

Anyways the big one was the Mr Basic. I have the onwers manual to the ECS and the Step by step guide to home Computing now.

I would like to get an original copy but a print off is ok for now.

 

I think you gave me a book I needed to buy as well for her to write functions in basic that not on the ECS., Math functions.

Anyways I have tons of Sinclair ZX80 books since when I was a kid my parents the intellivision was out and so was the Atari 800

computer both in 1979. Sinclair computer only cost $199 back then and every other computer was alot more.

So I had no sound,color,and very limitted graphics since the ZX80 did not program pixals. Graphics were on the Keyboard.

Lots of print statements to get your graphics or you had to use alot of machine language routines.

Anyways you look at it the ECS does not have graphics on the keyboard and CHR$ is out as well.

I have seen some limitations of the ECS but it has other abillities for sound and graphics. I notice you can grab graphics off of the

catridges and use them for detail sprites another thing the ZX80 did not have.

So I was around when this machine came out but I was stuck on a machine that had a 4K rom for basic and 1 K of ram.

Later on they did make it expandable to 16K of ram and also eventually you could change the 4 K basic rom out to an 8K rom

basic and you had to use a keyboard layover as well. Old programs you saved would not load up under the new Basic ROM.

So you had to re type them and save them under the new rom.

Anyways I just left my computer alone and later on Pick up a Sinclair ZX81 at a pond shop many years later.

So the ECS actually does more than the computer I started out with.

Ok back to my daughter. I have the tape recorder and it works great. Printer is where I am stuck at. What printer works best with this

ECS ? I see it only has a phono jack output.

Now the owners Manual for the ECS says use an AQURIUS printer It say to plug it into the AUX jack on the ECS.

Is this the only printer that works with the ECS or are there others as well ?

What the model number on the Aqurius printer that they are talking about ?

 

Anyways any help with this would be great.

 

Thanks

Edited by Sean39
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Aquarius model 4210 printer is a thermal printer and needs compatible thermal paper. I don't know if there are differences in thermal paper for different printers that would make them incompatible. Unbelievably a search found a couple of rolls of official Mattel model 4216 thermal paper available. I wonder if still works after 33 years. According to this web site ( http://archive.kontek.net/aqemu.classicgaming.gamespy.com/aqfaq2.htm) the Mattel thermal printer was an OEM Alphacom 42 thermal printer.

Edited by mr_me
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Certainly the investment for an ECS compatible printer of any sort could be better spent at some low end PC, and then bring USB memories to school or wherever there is a printer for your daughter to use? I understand you would want to make use of the equipment you already purchased, but getting more antiquated gear that might not work well sounds like a money pit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Certainly the investment for an ECS compatible printer of any sort could be better spent at some low end PC, and then bring USB memories to school or wherever there is a printer for your daughter to use? I understand you would want to make use of the equipment you already purchased, but getting more antiquated gear that might not work well sounds like a money pit.

You could say the same thing about the sealed Mind Strike.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Guys

 

Ok I understand. The sealed mind strike game probably still works since it only a rom chip inside of a cartridge case and has never been open since it was made.

I was only going off of Mr Me on the printer and I thought he had a really good ideal to get one. I have tons of thermal paper still sealed shut. It worked on my

Printer for the Sinclair ZX81 computer and that computer is about the same age as this one. The paper stiil works.

Anyways she really does not need the printer but it would be helpful to print her programs out. She can save them now on tape.

Yes I have alot of money invested in this, She now has many games to play on the intellivision and she has books for the ECS for the basic programing.

I even saw people were selling new games made up in 2015 and 2016 for the intellivision. Some even say they require the ECS keyboard.

I bought her the older Master component because I read that some games and programs had issues on the Intellivision II. Some programs were

listed they did not even run on the second one made.

This is due to them changing the EXEC Rom chip for protection against outside production of cartridges.

Anyways Thank you for the model number on the printer. The computer I am on now goes back to my cousin when I am done.

I was trying to get something simple for my daughter to learn programing on ,yet she could also play games on. I think the intellivision did that.

She is having fun with it. That was the whole ideal behind this. You and I want a serious computer that we can write some serious programs on.

I program in basic,assembly language,Pascal,Fortran and so many others.

Remember I am a computer electronic engineer and I worked for Raytheon,NASA and retired from the military.

I had to get something on her level that she could handle. She has never programed a computer in her life. This will at least give her an introduction to basic in a very simple way but she will learn some things out of it. Then over time I can get a much better computer and bring her up to a higher level of programing when she can handle it. She stil dealing with the death of her mom and grandmother .

This was done to get her mind off of everything and it is working. I was hoping there were some good books she could read

to help her program on the ECS but I am guessing that the owners manual and Step by Step Guide to home computing is the only books that were produced for this ECS. I am guessing there are no other books that can help her learn programing techniques for this ECS. Thank you again for the model number for the printer . I will try and get one that very close to being new and sometimes you can get them in a box still in mint condition.

Most likely it will have very litlle use. I am hoping that Mr Basic meets Bits N Bytes will help her also. Then I can adance her up to a higher basic program

to learn.

 

 

Thank you everyone for your advise. It really did help. Mr Me thank you for the help on the printer.

DZ you been a real help to me. Buying another computer is out for now. A thermal printer is not going to cost what

a PC computer will cost. Plus I live in the middle of no where in Texas. So old and used computers are not here to buy.

I have had everything shipped into me for what I did get my daughter,so it going to have to do for now.

Trust me I can tell what the ECS is missing and it missing alot when it comes to the basic language but it works for my daughter

who is learning from it. It makes her happy and that is what I wanted.

 

On a positive not we could not find a way at first to replace the CHR$ function. I spent last night trying to find a way to get to the CHR$ strings.

I found a way and this is the program I came up with so she could see them

 

10 SET A$=" "

20 C=0

30 CLR

40 FOR X=0 to 63

50 A$(1)=X

55 PRIN C

60 PUT A$

65 C=C+1

70 NEXT X

 

This is in no book but I found a way to bring up the Character set

Most computers have 255 Characters,but the ECS has only 0 to 63 Chracters.

 

Still this gives a way to use CHR$ when it shows up in other programs.

So the statement

 

A$(1)=10

PUT A$

 

would be the same as

PRINT CHR$(10)

 

Anyways this will help my daughter with programs that use that CHR$ command.

 

I attatch the Character set for the ECS and it did not have any graphic symbols but it did have some Characters not found on

the keyboard. A limitted Character set in the ECS but it does have one at least that can be gotten too.

Anyways my daughter has started to read the books and began to start to learn the basic programing and she is having fun even

with this very limitted machine.

It a a start for her and I know a better computer could have been done but I have invested alot of time setting it up for her and I also

have put alot of money into it. So for right now the ECS is all I have for her. I hope that DZ others offer for help still stands.

Seems like some are frustrated that I have this really limitted computer for my daughter. I know some of you used the ECS as Kids.

I would like to hear about what you found when programing it. I know that when I had a Sinclair ZX80 computer I found ways to do things

that were never listed in any book. It was more on trial and error experience to find things I could do with also a very limitted computer.

 

 

 

 

Thanks everyone for your help

 

 

 

post-17711-0-51505200-1459355778_thumb.jpg

Edited by Sean39
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To Everyone

 

I want to thank you all for all the time that you have spent helping me out. I will eventually get a better computer for my daughter to program.

It just cannot happen right now. Trying to get medical cost paid off.

I do not want to waiste your time anymore on this. Everyone has been a great help and maybe one day I can get a real PC.

 

Now with your help th Master component is working with the ECS and it is saving programs to the tape drive and it loads them right back up.

So all the equipment is working correctly. The only thing I lack from having a complete computer for her is the printer. If I have that she has

a complete working computer to program on. I know the ECS is super limitted but for my daughter it work really well and she is laughing and

smiling. Also on a great note she is having alot of fun with it.

So you all helped me to bring this computer alive for her.

 

All I can say is Thank you very much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi

 

Is everyone angry with me I have heard nothing back from anyone.

Please let me know

 

Thank you

some days the programming section can go without any responses. Weekends strangely can be really dead for the intv forum as a whole. But i think you are all good. It would take a lot to make the people here angry.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A$(1)=10

PUT A$

 

would be the same as

PRINT CHR$(10)

 

That's certainly one way of doing it. Another way is to use an ASCII table to translate the code into a character and just print that. For example:

REM I know ASC(65) is the letter "A"
REM So PRINT CHR$(65) is the same as...

PRINT "A"

(Note: Ignore the lines starting with "REM". ECS BASIC does not support REM comments.)

 

Here's a handy ASCII table:

http://ascii-code.com

 

Unfortunately, there aren't even PEEK and POKE commands for you to play around with character ROM and the background table.

 

-dZ.

Edited by DZ-Jay
Link to comment
Share on other sites

HI DZ

 

Hey the ECS does have REM in it Basic. I told my daughter not to use it since it just eats up memory that she cannot afford to give up.

I just looked it up in the owners manual to make sure it had the REM Statement. I cannot find ASC listed in the Owners manual or Step by step guide.

Most books show you in the back the codes for the Characters. I am going to try the ASC even though it shows nothing about it in either book.

That maybe one of the functions it just left out.

 

DZ I attatched in one of my post above the ASCII table I came up with. I also listed the program I used to get it. The ASCII table is not in my books,

but I think it is much different from others.

 

 

Ok DZ I just got what you were doing. I got the ASCII table now and that will help translate other programs that use the CHR$ and ASC

codes.

 

The ESC does not even have the function ASC or CHR$. I used that simple program above to see what the computer had for ASCII codes.

 

In a way I guess you could call the A$(1)=33

a form of ASC

 

by the way 33 is the code for Letter A

I did attatch above a entire list of code for the ECS

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

Thanks

Sean

Edited by Sean39
Link to comment
Share on other sites

HI DZ

 

Hey the ECS does have REM in it Basic. I told my daughter not to use it since it just eats up memory that she cannot afford to give up.

I just looked it up in the owners manual to make sure it had the REM Statement. I cannot find ASC listed in the Owners manual or Step by step guide.

Most books show you in the back the codes for the Characters. I am going to try the ASC even though it shows nothing about it in either book.

That maybe one of the functions it just left out.

 

DZ I attatched in one of my post above the ASCII table I came up with. I also listed the program I used to get it. The ASCII table is not in my books,

but I think it is much different from others.

 

 

 

Thanks

Sean

It looks like the first 64 cards/characters in GROM. Too bad you don't have access to the rest of the GROM.

see http://wiki.intellivision.us/index.php?title=Graphics_ROM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HI DZ

 

Hey the ECS does have REM in it Basic. I told my daughter not to use it since it just eats up memory that she cannot afford to give up.

I just looked it up in the owners manual to make sure it had the REM Statement. I cannot find ASC listed in the Owners manual or Step by step guide.

Most books show you in the back the codes for the Characters. I am going to try the ASC even though it shows nothing about it in either book.

That maybe one of the functions it just left out.

 

DZ I attatched in one of my post above the ASCII table I came up with. I also listed the program I used to get it. The ASCII table is not in my books,

but I think it is much different from others.

 

 

 

Thanks

Sean

 

I don't think you understood my comment. ASCII is the American Standard Code for Information Interchange, and it defines a set of numeric codes for data. For your purposes, it defines the standard codes for letters, numbers, and printable symbols.

 

When you use "CHR$(x)" in other BASIC dialects, the number you use is the ASCII code for a particular character. The inverse of this function typically is "ASC("x")," which returns the numeric ASCII code for the character argument.

 

ECS BASIC has neither "CHR$" nor "ASC" functions. However, if you look up the character for a specific code in an ASCII table manually, you can then use "PRIN" to print that character directly.

 

Therefore, instead of having to waste memory and cycles assigning a character to a string and then calling "PUT," in order to replace the "CHR$" function; you could just consult an ASCII table, find out which symbol the argument code is supposed to be, and then "PRIN" that.

 

Here's an example. My BASIC source from some book says:

  PRINT CHR$(60)

I then look the code "60" in my handy ASCII table and it shows it is a less-than character ("<"). So I translate this in my ECS BASIC code to:

  PRIN "<"

And we're done.

 

Note that this only works on printable characters. That means there will be some characters that you will not be able to translate, such as the so called "control characters" (e.g., Backspace, Tab, Carriage Return); but with a little creativity you can work around this. For instance, if the source calls for a "Tab" character, just print a few spaces; if it calls for a "Carriage Return" just print a blank line, etc.

 

-dZ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

by the way 33 is the code for Letter A

I did attatch above a entire list of code for the ECS

 

Those are not ASCII. ASCII is a global standard. Those are internal character codes for the ECS, most likely their index into the character ROM cards (GROM).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi DZ

 

You are correct. Mr Me showed me this and it has all the Chracters on a chart but I cannot get access to all of them.

 

This has all the Chracters and boy I wish I could get access to them even the graphic ones. Take a look.

 

http://wiki.intelliv...le=Graphics_ROM

 

I am going to change my program to cover 0 to 255 and see if anything else will show up but I notice

after 63 I kept getting the same character. I just stopped it.

This chart shows alot past 63 should be there.

 

Also thanks for the help. Once you see the chart you will see why I would want access to the graphics part.

 

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mr Me.

 

Thanks for that Chart on the GROM. Wow I wish I had access to the entire thing.

Everything from 0 to 63 shows up and everthing from 64 on up will not show up.

You would think if I could see the first 64 Chracters that I could see them all.

Well it did not turn out that way. It would have been great to get to the lower case

letters as well some of the graphic symbols. Those graphic symbols would have helped in teaching my daughter

to program simple graphics. She pulls them off the Cartridge now with that grab function.

Still it would have been nice if she could use those graphic symbols to come up with her own

graphic design by combining them to draw pictures.

I am still looking everthing over to see if I can gain access to them

 

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi DZ

 

You are correct. Mr Me showed me this and it has all the Chracters on a chart but I cannot get access to all of them.

 

This has all the Chracters and boy I wish I could get access to them even the graphic ones. Take a look.

 

http://wiki.intelliv...le=Graphics_ROM

 

I am going to change my program to cover 0 to 255 and see if anything else will show up but I notice

after 63 I kept getting the same character. I just stopped it.

This chart shows alot past 63 should be there.

 

Also thanks for the help. Once you see the chart you will see why I would want access to the graphics part.

 

Thanks

 

I am familiar with the GROM. My guess is that it's the screen colour mode: Foreground/Background Mode supports only the first 64 characters of GROM; the rest can come from GRAM. Color Stack Mode supports all 256 GROM characters.

 

I believe there is a way to switch modes in ECS BASIC.

 

dZ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi DZ

Well if you know a way to switch it please let me know so I can get access to the other codes.

Now I do have a question. On the intellivoice. Since I have the ECS should the intellivoice go before the ECS or follow after.

This is hooking the entire system together in the correct way.

Anyways If you know what I need to change modes to to get access to the other chatacters please let me know.

 

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi DZ

Well if you know a way to switch it please let me know so I can get access to the other codes.

Now I do have a question. On the intellivoice. Since I have the ECS should the intellivoice go before the ECS or follow after.

This is hooking the entire system together in the correct way.

Anyways If you know what I need to change modes to to get access to the other chatacters please let me know.

 

Thanks

intellivoice goes in the middle

Edit: accidently said ecs.

Edited by pimpmaul69
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...