2016 Flashback speculation thread

[privateers69]

The 100 games is the console, 60 games for the handheld. According to the pictures posted earlier.

Edited July 8, 2016 by privateers69

[nosweargamer]

So back in Feb, I actually guessed that there might be an Atari portable this year!

 

I also guessed that we might see new games on the Sega systems from a third party, dreaming of the possibilities with EA.

Could it be, since Konami is working with bringing Frogger to the Atari FB, that we might see some Konami games on the Sega systems this year?

(Contra HC, Castlevania BL, Rocket Knight, Sunset Riders and a version of Frogger? Probably not TMNT due to licensing. )

 

Of course, I'm also guessing Bill can't make any comments at this time

[privateers69]

Double

Edited July 8, 2016 by privateers69

[Bill Loguidice]

101 games on the console and 60 on the handheld. Yes, on the handheld paddle- and two player-centric stuff was removed. Of course, for our purposes (the "us" on this board), it could come with zero games and not be a major deal because of the SD card.

 

I can't go into details on the Sega stuff yet. There will be new games on there, but not really third party stuff. There will also be a new feature. We got one press release out today related to the Flashback Classics (finally!), I'm pushing to get the one related to the hardware out soon as well. We aren't revealing the game lists in that press release, but it does speak about some of the new stuff.

[Flojomojo]

Here are my guesses for the software lineup, based on the list of 100 titles on the Atari Flashback 6 and the additional known game, Frogger.

 

I've crossed off games that I think would be boring/superfluous/unplayable on a single-player portable with a digital controller. Early sports games that were obsoleted by RealSports games aren't needed. 2-player-only games like Combat and paddle-only games like Breakout shouldn't be on here because they'd be literally unplayable. I suspect homebrews and prototypes could be cut out, too. I've left the prettier prototypes in here because of my graphics whoredom bias.

 

If it were up to me, I would cut super old and primitive things like Air-Sea Battle, because, they're ugly and don't show well. I'd also drop M-Network sports games if I had RealSports. I had both of these groups crossed out but couldn't make it to 60 titles, so they're back in.

 

Cutting out 41 titles brings us down to the magic 60 number on the box. I assume that 60 games means "60 virtual cartridges," not the "112 video games" as variations and options were advertised on the box of many early Atari games.

 

The beauty of this device will be that even if our favorites aren't onboard, chances are good that they'll work via the SD card slot. That was certainly the case with the Genesis handheld. Not everything worked, but plenty did, enough to be lots of fun. I love the Parker Brothers and Imagic games on the VCS.

 

Note that this is pure speculation, I know nothing and am just a fan who is more interested in this than most people. Also, my count might be off because I'm pretty lazy and not very smart.

 

• Atari:
  01 3D Tic-Tac-Toe
  02 Adventure
  03 Adventure II
  04 Air·Sea Battle
  05 Aquaventure
  06 Asteroids
  07 Backgammon
  08 Basketball
  09 Black Jack
  10 Bowling
  11 Breakout
  12 Canyon Bomber
  13 Centipede
  14 Championship Soccer
  15 Circus Atari
  16 Combat
  17 Combat Two
  18 Crystal Castles
  19 Demons to Diamonds
  20 Desert Falcon
  21 Dodge 'Em
  22 Double Dunk <-- not sure if this or RealSports Basketball would be cut. We probably don't need 2 basketball games, and we certainly don't need 3
  23 Fatal Run
  24 Flag Capture
  25 Football
  26 Frog Pond
  27 Front Line
  28 Fun with Numbers
  29 Golf
  30 Gravitar
  31 Hangman
  32 Haunted House
  33 Home Run
  34 Human Cannonball
  35 Jungle Hunt
  36 Maze Craze
  37 Miniature Golf
  38 Missile Command
  39 Millipede
  40 Night Driver
  41 Off-the-Wall
  42 Outlaw
  43 Polaris <--- Bill, I think this should be Solaris, which is my favorite 2600 game
  44 Pong (Video Olympics)
  45 Realsports Baseball
  46 Realsports Basketball
  47 Realsports Soccer
  48 Realsports Volleyball
  49 Return to Haunted House (uses Adventure's source code and graphics)
  50 Saboteur
  51 Save Mary
  52 Sky Diver
  53 Slot Machine
  54 Slot Racers
  55 Space Invaders <-- this is actually the ARCADE version
  56 Space War
  57 Sprintmaster
  58 Star Ship
  59 Steeplechase
  60 Stellar Track
  61 Street Racer
  62 Submarine Commander
  63 Super Baseball
  64 Super Breakout
  65 Super Football
  66 Surround
  67 Swordquest: Earthworld
  68 Swordquest: Fireworld
  69 Tempest
  70 Video Checkers
  71 Video Chess
  72 Video Pinball
  73 Wizard
  74 Warlords
  75 Yars' Revenge

• Frogger <-- new version for 2016

  M Network:
  01 Air Raiders
  02 Armor Ambush
  03 Astroblast
  04 Dark Cavern
  05 International Soccer
  06 Super Challenge Baseball
  07 Super Challenge Football
  08 Space Attack
  09 Star Strike
  10 Sea Battle
  11 Frogs and Flies
  12 Sword Fight

   

  Homebrews:
  01 Chase It
  02 Escape It
  03 Miss It
  04 Shield Shifter
  05 Strip Off

[Flojomojo]

101 games on the console and 60 on the handheld. Yes, on the handheld paddle- and two player-centric stuff was removed. Of course, for our purposes (the "us" on this board), it could come with zero games and not be a major deal because of the SD card.

 

I can't go into details on the Sega stuff yet. There will be new games on there, but not really third party stuff. There will also be a new feature. We got one press release out today related to the Flashback Classics (finally!), I'm pushing to get the one related to the hardware out soon as well. We aren't revealing the game lists in that press release, but it does speak about some of the new stuff.

 

Agreed on the Atari lineup. The thought occurred to me while poring over the existing list, "who cares? I'm not playing from the ROM, I'll be loading from the SD card." Still, having good stuff on the box helps with sales. You should lose the Tempest VCS game, because despite the name, it looks like underpants.

 

I saw your Armchair Arcade press release about the Flashback Classics and was disappointed it wasn't about the handheld which is 2600% more exciting to me. Roll on, October!

 

New feature, eh? Save states on the Genesis handheld would be a system-seller for me and probably many others. We could do without the 40 spam games on there, they should be Genesis only in my opinion. Wireless multiplayer would be neat but seems like it would be harder to implement than save states. I hope it's save states. Did I mention I'd like save states on there?

[Bill Loguidice]

This is actually the link to the Flashback 6 game list: http://armchairarcade.com/perspectives/2015/10/15/atari-flashback-6-the-official-game-list/

 

I haven't bothered to double-check, but I'm pretty sure for the 7 it's the same list plus Frogger.

 

Sword Fight wouldn't be on the handheld because that's a two player only game. The other guesses are pretty good overall.

 

I can tell you that save states are not in this year's Sega hardware, but that's good thinking for 2017 if they end up moving those products to a next gen hardware platform. It's a pretty good feature that's added for this year, but only affects a few of the games that will be included. I've already said too much...

[Inky]

 

I can tell you that save states are not in this year's Sega hardware, but that's good thinking for 2017 if they end up moving those products to a next gen hardware platform. It's a pretty good feature that's added for this year, but only affects a few of the games that will be included. I've already said too much...

Sonic and Knuckles being able to virtually piggyback Sonic 2 and 3?

[FifthPlayer]

I've crossed off games that I think would be boring/superfluous/unplayable on a single-player portable with a digital controller.

• 36 Maze Craze

 

 

I'm pretty sure Maze Craze is a two-player game, or at least it really needs two people in order to have an interesting game. You can probably cross it off the list.

[Atariboy]

Maze Craze can be fun solo. I bet it's on there.

 

The portable unit intrigues me but these things almost never show up here in Canada, at least my area of Southern Ontario.

 

Ever cross the border into New York State or whatever is closest to you? Dollar General always carries these each Fall and there seems like there's one on every street corner at times.

 

So drive 5 minutes after you cross and you'll likely find a Dollar General with them in stock when the day comes.

 

I see that the person who posted it is a Dollar Tree store manager. That chain has a long history with selling AtGames stuff.

 

I think you meant Dollar General. Dollar Tree is a dollar store and doesn't typically stock items over $1.

 

Yes, it's a portable Atari Flashback with SD card support.

 

 

I was betting on this. Nice to see it not only confirmed, but even better than I'd of guessed thanks to the SD slot.

Any chance they've improved the emulator this year? It has been far from perfect so far, such as my favorite example with Battlezone where the radar is virtually broken. Granted I haven't been able to test that example out in recent Flashbacks, but you've spoken like there has been no emulator changes in recent releases so I'd imagine the bugged radar remains in the latest model were Battlezone able to be played on it.

 

There's also TV out, although like with the Sega product, you have to purchase the cable separately.

Never had one of those. Is the cable proprietary or will a standard RCA cable suffice? Edit: Nevermind, a visit to the AtGames store gave me my answer.

I'd love to see the SD slot migrate to the console counterparts eventually. Hope that's possibly in the cards.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Atariboy

[Flojomojo]

Yes, you're right --- Dollar General is the one. I don't have that store within an hour's drive so I can never remember the name.

 

Atari sold off Battlezone in their last bankruptcy filing so it won't be on this thing -- problem "solved." I wonder how usable the radar will be on a small screen? I guess we will find out when we load the ROM. Maybe someone will be able to mod the ROM to make it work better. Until then, hopefully we can still play Robot Tank.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

Any chance they've improved the emulator this year? It has been far from perfect so far, such as my favorite example with Battlezone where the radar is virtually broken. Granted I haven't been able to test that example out in recent Flashbacks, but you've spoken like there has been no emulator changes in recent releases so I'd imagine the bugged radar remains in the latest model were Battlezone able to be played on it.

 

I'd love to see the SD slot migrate to the console counterparts eventually. Hope that's possibly in the cards.

 

 

The hardware is improved on the handheld and the emulator tweaked, but I have not tested if Battlezone is 100% now. Unfortunately, my early test unit has a broken SD card slot.

 

The SD card slot is unlikely on the Genesis console due to the cartridge slot, plus the fact that AtGames sells its own flash cart. However, the Atari Flashback Console has no such slot, obviously, so I'd say that's ripe for such a feature, particularly as they struggle to differentiate that year after year. I'll definitely be suggesting that assuming the Portable is the type of success I think it will be.

[bugcatcher88]

This is actually the link to the Flashback 6 game list: http://armchairarcade.com/perspectives/2015/10/15/atari-flashback-6-the-official-game-list/

 

I haven't bothered to double-check, but I'm pretty sure for the 7 it's the same list plus Frogger.

 

 

If the list is the same as last year (but now with Frogger), I'm guessing Secret Quest must still be included. I remember reading that Secret Quest on the Flashback 6 wasn't fully playable (no color/BW switch or button). Is there now a work-around to address this for this year's Flashback or has the game been removed again?

Edited July 8, 2016 by bugcatcher88

[Bill Loguidice]

 

If the list is the same as last year (but now with Frogger), I'm guessing Secret Quest must still be included. I remember reading that Secret Quest on the Flashback 6 wasn't fully playable (no color/BW switch or button). Is there now a work-around to address this for this year's Flashback or has the game been removed again?

Yes, it's functional through a key combination now on the console, so it really is 101 fully playable games. On the handheld, every switch is accounted for so there's no need for the button combo method.

[+DamonicFury]

The SD card slot is unlikely on the Genesis console due to the cartridge slot, plus the fact that AtGames sells its own flash cart. However, the Atari Flashback Console has no such slot, obviously, so I'd say that's ripe for such a feature, particularly as they struggle to differentiate that year after year. I'll definitely be suggesting that assuming the Portable is the type of success I think it will be.

 

Glad to hear that! A Flashback 8 that allowed the use of original controllers (as do Flashbacks 2-7) plus an SD card slot would be very desirable. As nice as the portable sounds, it clearly won't be usable for paddle or keyboard controller games.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

Glad to hear that! A Flashback 8 that allowed the use of original controllers (as do Flashbacks 2-7) plus an SD card slot would be very desirable. As nice as the portable sounds, it clearly won't be usable for paddle or keyboard controller games.

 

My personal wishlist is to get the consoles on HDMI first and foremost, but yeah, SD card support is a close second. Unfortunately, there are certainly challenges with getting HDMI to work with the technology.

[Flojomojo]

that's ripe for such a feature, particularly as they struggle to differentiate that year after year.

 

after year (2013) after year (2014) after year (2015) after year (2016)

 

Thank goodness for the Portable!

 

 

Yes, it's functional through a key combination now on the console, so it really is 101 fully playable games. On the handheld, every switch is accounted for so there's no need for the button combo method.

 

 

I like the inclusion of a black&white/color switch just for old-timey retro purposes, too. I'm glad it's there!

[awhite2600]

 

All I'll say is it's the next generation of what has been used in previous Atari Flashbacks. It's the usual proprietary stuff. It's actually highly compatible with excellent performance. The only possible disappointment to hardcore fans is that it's not designed to support cartridge images that relied (or rely) on special chips.

 

And yes. SD cards equals playing anything Atari 2600-based that you want, with some aforementioned exceptions. I'm sure there will be some homebrews and maybe even other original titles that don't happen to use special chips or add-ons that may not work as well for whatever reason, but compatibility testing has been good to this point.

 

Bill, how far does the compatibility / emulation go? You state that special chips are not supported. I take this mean that there will be no support for the DPC chip in Pitfall II. What about things like the Super Chip used in some of the later Atari games, RAM+ used by CBS, the complex bankswitching used in BurgerTime, etc? Are all of the various bankswitching methods (that don't use extra ram or hardware) supported?

 

In theory, all of the above should be possible because the handheld is just running an emulator. Have certain capabilities (like DPC) been excluded on purpose to keep the original license holders happy?

[Flojomojo]

Bill, how far does the compatibility / emulation go? You state that special chips are not supported. I take this mean that there will be no support for the DPC chip in Pitfall II. What about things like the Super Chip used in some of the later Atari games, RAM+ used by CBS, the complex bankswitching used in BurgerTime, etc? Are all of the various bankswitching methods (that don't use extra ram or hardware) supported?

 

I think we can make an educated guess, based on this list of Atari 2600 bankswitching methods.

 

Crystal Castles uses the Super Chip, Crystal Castles is in the current Flashback 6.

We can assume that if Crystal Castles is in the Portable, the onboard emulator can run the game equally well from ROM or SD card.

If it can run Crystal Castles from either place, it can likely run other things with the Super Chip, too.

 

Atari's 'Super Chip' is nothing more than a 128-byte RAM chip that maps itself in the first 256 bytes of cart memory. (1000-10FFh)

 

Millipede, Sprintmaster, and Secret Quest are there too. I'd guess with 95% certainty that other games such as Dig-Dug, Dark Chambers and Stargate will work, too. If they don't, well that's just a small subset of what this thing will actually do and my life will go on.

 

I would think that things like DPC have been excluded to keep things simpler for the emulator developer, not having to emulate a whole chip just to support a single game.

[Bill Loguidice]

Flojomojo is on the right path. Unfortunately, at the moment, I only have an early test unit with a faulty SD card slot, so I can't do proper testing. The results have been good from other testers, though, and I suspect it will only be a handful of original titles and some of the more advanced homebrews that will present issues. I'll prioritize that type of testing when I get a unit off the final production set.

[Bill Loguidice]

So back in Feb, I actually guessed that there might be an Atari portable this year!

 

I also guessed that we might see new games on the Sega systems from a third party, dreaming of the possibilities with EA.

Could it be, since Konami is working with bringing Frogger to the Atari FB, that we might see some Konami games on the Sega systems this year?

(Contra HC, Castlevania BL, Rocket Knight, Sunset Riders and a version of Frogger? Probably not TMNT due to licensing. )

 

Of course, I'm also guessing Bill can't make any comments at this time

 

No new third party additions on the Sega hardware this year, although that's always being evaluated for the future. There are new first party games in the mix, though, and the aforementioned addition of a nice feature that affects a couple of those games.

[Flojomojo]

Flojomojo is on the right path.

 

 

If I can see farther, it is only because I have been standing on the shoulders of giants like Bill Loguidice.

 

(If I suck up to you enough, can you get me an early version? I'll write an exhaustive review ...)

[Bill Loguidice]

 

 

If I can see farther, it is only because I have been standing on the shoulders of giants like Bill Loguidice.

 

(If I suck up to you enough, can you get me an early version? I'll write an exhaustive review ...)

 

If any opportunity presents itself, the sucking up will be noted.

[Flojomojo]

No new third party additions on the Sega hardware this year, although that's always being evaluated for the future. There are new first party games in the mix, though, and the aforementioned addition of a nice feature that affects a couple of those games.

 

It occurs to me that "save states" is separate and distinct from "cartridge saves" or "battery saves," which is really all we need to play RPGs as we did on the original systems. It would be nice to be able to play things like Phantasy Star II and Shining Force on an inexpensive, dedicated handheld.

 

(racking my brain to think what else it could be ... Sega CD and Sega 32X are out, save states are out, bigger/better screen isn't really game-dependent. SVP chip support for Virtua Racing would be a bizarre thing to include if 32X doesn't work)

[Emehr]

I haven't been interested in Flashbacks since the FB2 (of which I bought 2 at retail and another at a yard sale) but now my interest is re-invigorated with this portable. That really is the logical path for this product and I'm surprised it took any amount of convincing. The SD slot was also a smart move. I can see the portable replacing the console unit if it's successful enough. In future revisions, allow the portable to utilize the wireless controllers, add a switch to turn off the LCD screen, and there's the console unit. Maybe add a DC plug if it doesn't have one already. Spend some money and have a designer come up with a more unique case for it that allows portable use and still retain that classic 2600 style. Anyway, looking forward to the portable!