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OPCODE GAMES announces: IntelliXpander - Castlevania & Goonies! RESERVE NOW


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Yes, but it was made 30 years ago. Try to make a "modern retro" console and see how much nostalgia it will muster. :roll:

 

That said, I don't know what this expander is, but if it bypasses the STIC and the CPU to get higher resolution, it's not really an Intellivision.

I'm afraid I would have to agree with dZ here. But an interesting question in general: how much "extension" can one add to the game before it is no longer an Intellivision game? Since JPL games have access to extra RAM, hardware accelerated mathematical operations, etc. aren't these games also crossing similar boundaries?

With all due respect for opcode, who probably enjoys designing hardware, I don't really care for these kinds of expansions. I'm more interested in what the stock systems can do with better programming. When you have to add an expansion module in order to play a game, it seems like that system could have not done so otherwise.

Just an opinion :-)

Carl

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I'm afraid I would have to agree with dZ here. But an interesting question in general: how much "extension" can one add to the game before it is no longer an Intellivision game? Since JPL games have access to extra RAM, hardware accelerated mathematical operations, etc. aren't these games also crossing similar boundaries?

With all due respect for opcode, who probably enjoys designing hardware, I don't really care for these kinds of expansions. I'm more interested in what the stock systems can do with better programming. When you have to add an expansion module in order to play a game, it seems like that system could have not done so otherwise.

Just an opinion :-)

Carl

 

I think that what JLP brings to the table was 'possible' back in the day. Just very expensive to do. So, I don't think that adding features to the cartridges is really 'cheating'....think 'Supercharger' for the Intellivision. The Atari 2600 had extra ram added through the supercharger. People still think of them as Atari games.

 

I don't think that an elegant upgrade can really be done for the Intellivision through a cartridge port. I'm willing to be proven wrong, however.

 

What I'd personally like to get done is a new Intellivision board that uses an FPGA and is backwards compatible with Intellivision cartridges but can also play Intellivision 3 spec'd games. Ideally, it would fit into a Flashback case.....use the flashback controllers and power supply and have HDMI capability. I'd like to put a group together to do this. I'm not so sure that having competing 'upgrades' is a wise idea however.

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What I'd personally like to get done is a new Intellivision board that uses an FPGA and is backwards compatible with Intellivision cartridges but can also play Intellivision 3 spec'd games. Ideally, it would fit into a Flashback case.....use the flashback controllers and power supply and have HDMI capability. I'd like to put a group together to do this. I'm not so sure that having competing 'upgrades' is a wise idea however.

The Zimba 3000 already supports the Intellivision, and HDMI support is already pretty much confirmed. Also, there are plans for an expansion port that will be used for cartridge adaptors, so if you want to "put a group together" and work on this, you could just contact Kevtris and see how you can help with creating an Intellivision cartridge adaptor for the Zimba. :)

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The Zimba 3000 already supports the Intellivision, and HDMI support is already pretty much confirmed. Also, there are plans for an expansion port that will be used for cartridge adaptors, so if you want to "put a group together" and work on this, you could just contact Kevtris and see how you can help with creating an Intellivision cartridge adaptor for the Zimba. :)

 

I haven't checked out the Zimba, but it sounds like it only brings HDMI capability to the table. Can it use real Intellivision controllers?

 

I'd like something to do Intellivision 3 games AND be backwards compatible.

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I think that what JLP brings to the table was 'possible' back in the day. Just very expensive to do. So, I don't think that adding features to the cartridges is really 'cheating'....think 'Supercharger' for the Intellivision. The Atari 2600 had extra ram added through the supercharger. People still think of them as Atari games.

 

Agreed. Pitfall II for the Atari 2600 used an extra chip to enhance graphics and sound and wasn't considered cheating. And now a modified version of that chip has been used to make some incredible homebrews like Space Rocks and Stay Frosty II. So, I'm all for hardware enhancements. My only wish is that the IntelliXpander could also be emulated for those of us who prefer to play in emulation, like Stella supports DPC+ games.

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We always try to keep our hardware authentic, in the sense of what could have been done back in the day. In fact except for glue logic (Mattel could have used small proprietary chips anyways), we always use old stock parts that were available around the time these machines were still being made, so no FPGAs and such here. If you think about, 64KB ROM cartridges with extra RAM could be technically possible back in the early 80s, which doesn't mean it was economically viable (too expensive). Mattel wasn't very willing to release anything bigger than 8KB ROM back in the day, so can you imagine they releasing a game with bankswitching ROM, extra RAM and a co-processor inside a cartridge? An expansion module is an one time buy proposition, so you don't have to pay premium prices on each game later. But in the end of day, what it is really important and rewarding is to sit in front of the TV with our Intys and play some nice new games.

The general response so far has been outstanding, so we are going ahead full steam. We have two team members taking care of hardware and software, and I will join them on a more regular basis later this year. Grazi is also engaged in some graphic duties.

Other than that, it is all deja vu...

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This thread has gone virile here, I believe there will be a great following and backing for this as much as there can be due to the age of our Intellivision players.

 

Very exciting stuff, I hope for myself and others this comes to fruition. Move forward and make great stuff happen...... :thumbsup: and.........thank you! :)

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Mattel wasn't very willing to release anything bigger than 8KB ROM back in the day, so can you imagine they releasing a game with bankswitching ROM, extra RAM and a co-processor inside a cartridge?

 

 

The biggest games from Mattel are 16k and Chess had extra RAM on it.

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I'm afraid I would have to agree with dZ here. But an interesting question in general: how much "extension" can one add to the game before it is no longer an Intellivision game? Since JPL games have access to extra RAM, hardware accelerated mathematical operations, etc. aren't these games also crossing similar boundaries?

With all due respect for opcode, who probably enjoys designing hardware, I don't really care for these kinds of expansions. I'm more interested in what the stock systems can do with better programming. When you have to add an expansion module in order to play a game, it seems like that system could have not done so otherwise.

Just an opinion :-)

Carl

I think extra RAM and minimal hardware-accelerated libraries are fine, since the game still uses the CPU for core game logic and flow control, the same RAM that was available originally, and the video and sound circuitry. In general, it's still the same platform.

 

It's when you start replacing core components like those that it changes, essentially, into something else.

 

However, this is just in general. We don't have any hardware specifications or technology descriptions describing this "expander," other than marketing copy.

 

I find it hard to believe that you could include the announced features and still maintain the integrity of the platform, but who knows.

 

Personally, as a programmer, I would still target the stock Intellivision; and the only expansion I would support is extra RAM, flash storage (for high scores and configurations), the ECS, and Intellivoice.

 

dZ.

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Yeah, started digging a little bit there.

 

I agree that speculation is fun! Faulty as my memory is, I'm reasonably certain I read somewhere about the 1149 KC overlaying text onto the graphics from the STIC. For example, I believe that's what we have here.

 

Now, just *how* that text overlay is accomplished, and how sophisticated the graphics can be, I have no clue. I.e. can you put whatever you want in there, as long as it's white, like the KC text overlay? Or is it more rich than that?

 

This will be interesting to follow!

 

EDIT: Fixed word order and clarified overlaying graphics question.

Yeah, the keyboard component had a monochrome 40x24 text only graphic display that could overlay (not underlay?) the regular Intellivision graphics. There are no graphics characters in the font unfortunately. Here's some info. http://wiki.intellivision.us/index.php?title=TMS9927_CRT_Controller

 

That page also mentions that the intellivision colour chip has a video input but is never used.

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I'm afraid I would have to agree with dZ here. But an interesting question in general: how much "extension" can one add to the game before it is no longer an Intellivision game? Since JPL games have access to extra RAM, hardware accelerated mathematical operations, etc. aren't these games also crossing similar boundaries?

With all due respect for opcode, who probably enjoys designing hardware, I don't really care for these kinds of expansions. I'm more interested in what the stock systems can do with better programming. When you have to add an expansion module in order to play a game, it seems like that system could have not done so otherwise.

Just an opinion :-)

Carl

i have to agree with gfyi on this. Games with extra ram and all kinds of other stuff is not out of the norm. Nintendo games started doing this on the nes as the system aged. The ecs is an expansion module itself. So was the intellivoice. And yes the system changer was an add on completely bypassing most of the intellivision but still let you use the controllers. I think the crash and mattel selling changed all that. Intv corp didnt do enough to really do the intellivision any favors. Sure they brought out some more games but nothing like mattel would have done in my opinion. The r&d would have to be there. However i have to wonder if the controller would have changed on the intellivision 3 or 4 (whatever it would be) after companies like nintendo and sega going to a pad instead of a joystick. Atari ended up selling a pad for the 7800 but not in the u.s. Its kind of weird how the trend of american companies is to give things to other countries and screw the u.s. Even microsoft does this. How many rare xbox consoles can the u.s. not get. Edited by pimpmaul69
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I also think that minimal upgrades like expanded ram are fine if they're within the realm of what the Intellivision might have realistically received within its already long lifespan, had it been successful enough to dominate the market.

 

But even modest upgrades through an expansion unit will always feel like another dedicated branch of games which aren't as real as those based off stock hardware.

 

So, although I still welcome a product like this, I would very much like to see bi-compatible games, which have a standard mode and SGM mode. Otherwise I'd prefer devs to save their time and effort for stock hardware games.

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Everybody seems to have their own biased opinion on what should be allowed or not, or considered or not as an Intellivision game. I have gone through all of this before releasing the ColecoVision SGM and guess what, after 700 modules nobody cares anymore.

I just want to clear up a couple of points:

1) we are NOT replacing any Inty component, we are adding, just like the IntelliVoice and ECS added functionally to the base system. Those are officially released Mattel modules, so expanding the Intellivision isn't something new

2) we are NOT releasing dual mode games for the same reason Mattel didn't release dual mode IntelliViice and ECS software. There is no point releasing an expansion module and then doing games that actually doesn't require it

 

The reason why we announced now was to gauge interest. To get a module like this made is a huge undertaking from a homebrew perspective, and believe me, the investment of time and money is quite considerable, so we needed to know if we were doing the right thing, and judging by the response we got (and thanks everyone for the support and warming welcome), we are convinced that we are in the right path. So we will go silent for the time being and hopefully when we are back we will have something relevant to show.

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I completely get what people are saying when they ask "At what point is the upgrade no longer really an Intellivision?" It was my first thought as well. But the more I think about it this is no different than us getting to see what the Intellivision III could have been and the games will still be done in the Intellivision style.

 

Someone above wondered how releasing a retro-style console would do. Well I think if someone released a working Intellivision III unit using the stated specs it was to have back then, I think it would sell like hotcakes. Especially if it was getting a new era of games designed for it.

 

Either way, I welcome this expansion unit and hope it comes out in Intellivision II style/colors as well. Although I'll be just as ecstatic with just the brown version too :) :thumbsup:

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I'm going to take a guess as to what the enhanced graphics will be. People who are more knowledgeable about Intellivision hardware and/or the IntelliXpander might find this a good laugh. :)

 

I'm guessing that this will add video co-processing capabilities to the Intellivision. In other words, rather than replacing the existing video hardware (the STIC chip, GRAM, GROM), it will add functionality that make feeding data into the existing hardware easier. Think of it as being able to feed data into the IntelliXpander, out comes 64 tiles/cards, which are then copied to the existing hardware's GRAM.

 

Alternatively, perhaps the "enhanced graphics" just means there is a bunch of non-video enhancement (ex: fast square-root, fast divide, etc, etc) which leaves more execution time for the CPU to do a better job with the existing STIC-based hardware.

 

Here are my guesses as to what is unlikely to occur. All three of these are theoretical ways to replace the STIC-based hardware with something far more powerful.

  • It seems unlikely that they are creating new video hardware with an HDMI port out of the back of IntelliXpander.
  • Sending video though the cartridge port over pin 8 (what the Keyboard Component) could be done with the Intellivision I and with the Intellivision II but there are analog differences in their circuits. Full color could be overlayed over a black background but colors would likely be different between Intellivision I and II. If this is implemented, it likely is white-only (similar to the Keyboard Component).
  • Sending video though the cartridge port over pin 2 (what the System Changer did) could be done but Intellivision I's would need to be hardware upgraded. Seems like potential customers would scared off by this upgrade and sales would be limited.

Again, these are just guesses.

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I thought I read video input on cartridge pin 8 was disabled on the Inrellivision II. If that were the case than any use of cartridge based video input would be incompatible with some Intellivisions.

 

I think adding audio through the catridge port shouldn't be a problem. Did the keyboard component and system changer use the same method input for audio?

Edited by mr_me
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Q: Does the IntelliXpander include a new video chip?

A: No, it doesn’t.

 

The thing I remembered about the STIC that it could do higher vertical resolution but it was constraint by the amount of 16-bit System RAM. And 128 GRAM cards could be use, but limited to 64 cards due to the amount GRAM. Some later Intellivision system I think Intellivision III had the extra GRAM, but it wasn't used. And the video chip couldn't receive instruction while the screen is being drawn, or the CPU and STIC can't access the system RAM at the same time, so you couldn't do split screen trick or sprite multiplexer tricks like you see in C64/NES. I might be wrong on this, but it was based what I remembered what intvnut and DZ-jay wrote on the programming forums. So that why I thought that the Intellixpander is going to add a video chip to the system to get around the constraints.

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The thing I remembered about the STIC that it could do higher vertical resolution but it was constraint by the amount of 16-bit System RAM. And 128 GRAM cards could be use, but limited to 64 cards due to the amount GRAM. Some later Intellivision system I think Intellivision III had the extra GRAM, but it wasn't used. And the video chip couldn't receive instruction while the screen is being drawn, or the CPU and STIC can't access the system RAM at the same time, so you couldn't do split screen trick or sprite multiplexer tricks like you see in C64/NES. I might be wrong on this, but it was based what I remembered what intvnut and DZ-jay wrote on the programming forums. So that why I thought that the Intellixpander is going to add a video chip to the system to get around the constraints.

By Intellivision III you must mean INTV System III. I think the Intellivision II had the extra GRAM as well. According to Intvnut, to make use of it you'd have to make some hardware modifications inside the Intellivision and it might break backward compatibility with some games. It would give you 128 cards instead of 64 but 240 cards needed for a frame buffer. Its still at 96 line resoltion. The unfinished Intellivision III and its updated STIC was suppose to address full 192 line resolution and more.

 

The System Changer, although it had its own controller ports, was also suppose to use the controllers through the master component. Did this work well? Just wondering if a system changer type enhancement add-on would work well with master component controllers.

Edited by mr_me
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