+tf_hh Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 nice finding... Not sure if this also explains my case... I sent you a photo of my 800xe (working) motherboard which also has QMEG/320kB mod (email from 5.5.2017). I may try to do a mod to my Sys-check module and eventually report back... btw. is the latest firmware 1.4? The current firmware is 1.4 - I got no email or PM from today, and emails from 2017... deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddtmw Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 The external solution Sys-Check V2.2 enables the following features: ... Sys-Check can also be used as an external operating-system switcher / enabler. You can easily enable the Old-OS (from 400/800) for old games or so - without changing anything inside your computer. ... Hi. I have been reading the manuals and have a question about the orginal 400/800 OS. The flash utility says the ROM file has to be exactly 16K, but the 400/800 ROMs are only 10K. Has someone created a 16K 400/800 ROM that would be compatible with the Syscheck flash rom? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 Hi. I have been reading the manuals and have a question about the orginal 400/800 OS. The flash utility says the ROM file has to be exactly 16K, but the 400/800 ROMs are only 10K. Has someone created a 16K 400/800 ROM that would be compatible with the Syscheck flash rom? Thank you. Just take the stock 10K Atari OS A or OS B ROM you want to use and pad out the extra 6K with a hex editor program. That's how I have an OS B ROM in my Ultimate 1MB machines. However, be advised that there are still a handful of titles that include checking the OS ROM and bombing out if it's not a stock OS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddtmw Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 Okay. I just figured someone may have already posted one somewhere. How can program tell if it's not a stock OS? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 Okay. I just figured someone may have already posted one somewhere. How can program tell if it's not a stock OS? Thanks. It can try writing to an address that's a shadow register or RAM location in a stock 400/800 but is part of the ROM address space on an XL; it can compute the OS checksum and compare to the stock values, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddtmw Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 So, do those programs also not work with the translator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 So, do those programs also not work with the translator? Some do, some don't I imagine. There are also different versions of the Atari Translator software, plus unofficial hacks and tweaks to those Translators too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 This appears to be a 400/800 OS padded to 16KB: http://ftp.pigwa.net/stuff/collections/atari_forever/ROM/OLD800.ROM(not sure what rev, pal or ntsc) You might be better off using a 400/800 compatible OS designed for the XL/XE. Ie: XLFIX http://ftp.pigwa.net/stuff/collections/atari_forever/ROM/Rom%20-%20OS/REPLACEM/MISC/XLFIX.ROM XL BOSS (and XL BOSS II) http://atariage.com/forums/topic/279956-anyone-have-the-xl-boss-os-rom/ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddtmw Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 This appears to be a 400/800 OS padded to 16KB: http://ftp.pigwa.net/stuff/collections/atari_forever/ROM/OLD800.ROM(not sure what rev, pal or ntsc) You might be better off using a 400/800 compatible OS designed for the XL/XE. Ie: XLFIX http://ftp.pigwa.net/stuff/collections/atari_forever/ROM/Rom%20-%20OS/REPLACEM/MISC/XLFIX.ROM XL BOSS (and XL BOSS II) http://atariage.com/forums/topic/279956-anyone-have-the-xl-boss-os-rom/ THANK YOU! The XL BOSS 2 looks like a winner. Is there any documentation on what XLFIX is? Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Is there any documentation on what XLFIX is? XL Fix was by CSS, touted as "the first to develop a translator program (called the XL FIX), which actually worked better than the one Atari later released." according to their remaining web page: http://nleaudio.com/css/products/history.htm It is also mentioned in the Atari 8-Bit FAQ, which covers many of the other commercially released replacement OS ROM's, its a good, still maintained, historical reference: https://mcurrent.name/atari-8-bit/faq.txt For the 600XL/800XL/65XE/130XE/800XE (not 1200XL/XEgs unless specified) ------------------------------------ XL Fix ROM, by Computer Software Services (CSS), 1984 - 400/800 OS translator - Access to 4KiB RAM at $C000 - Available for 1200XL or for 600XL/800XL - Board includes socket for standard XL OS ROM chip, and includes switch for selecting XL OS or 400/800 OS. - XL Fix by Computer Software Services (CSS), 1983 (ad Antic Apr84p102) - Commercial program released (originally) in disk and cassette versions - Also released in ROM version But later options like BOSS XL and OmniView XL/XE, had good 800 compatibility and more features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted May 10, 2019 Author Share Posted May 10, 2019 Hi. I have been reading the manuals and have a question about the orginal 400/800 OS. The flash utility says the ROM file has to be exactly 16K, but the 400/800 ROMs are only 10K. Has someone created a 16K 400/800 ROM that would be compatible with the Syscheck flash rom? This is a 400/800 operating system version B with the mandatory PORT_B patches to run at any XL/XE. It´s 16 KB, you can flash this file into your Sys-Check. OS_B_NTSC_16K.BIN 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I've been working on two 130XE's that each have their own memory issues. The first was diagnosed quickly with the Sys-Check, showing U14 of the first 64K bad, and got the system to function with 64K by doing the R110/R111 resistor crossing for now. The second 130XE has good base 64K, but bad memory in the extended 64K. Since XE's have no sockets, knowing exactly which chip is bad is nice because of the extra work needed to desolder. In the case of the 130XE with the bad XRAM, I will have to swap R110/R111 so the Sys-Check will tell me which chip(s) of the extended RAM bank is bad. Maybe a small feature request to consider: to also test the extended 64K of a 130XE, and identify bad chip(s) since it is a known "standard" factory configuration. It would not be required to support any other 3rd party memory upgrade since there are too many variations, except maybe to say that there is bad RAM. Adding a check for 130XE extended bank would avoid having to do the R110/R111 resistor crossing for diagnosis of the 130XE extended bank. Thanks for your consideration! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tane Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 6 hours ago, Nezgar said: avoid having to do the R110/R111 resistor crossing for diagnosis of the 130XE extended bank Extended RAM Test 0.21.0.atr Extended RAM Test 0.21.0.xex Memory Tester (BP).atr Memory Tester (BP).xex SysInfo 2.16.atr Simple System Check 0.1.atr XL Test 1.4.atr XL Test 1.4.xex SysInfo 2.16.xex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 2 hours ago, tane said: [Attachments] All of these conventional testers only tell you the byte address or bank of extended memory that is faulty, which is not useful to identify which specific RAM chip is bad. (U26-U33 in the 130XE) This is one of the killer features of the Sys-Check software for the main bank (U9-U16). (and @shoestring's tester for that matter too) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 On 10/18/2019 at 8:38 AM, Nezgar said: Maybe a small feature request to consider: to also test the extended 64K of a 130XE, and identify bad chip(s) since it is a known "standard" factory configuration. It would not be required to support any other 3rd party memory upgrade since there are too many variations, except maybe to say that there is bad RAM. This is already planned (partly started) and on my roadmap. The V2.0 Sys-Check firmware will test expanded memory and more stuff. I will include some basic hardware tests (with the need of some patch / test cables, of course) for joystick ports, SIO etc. My "problem" is: writing software costs much more time then developing the hardware. I´ve too much irons in the fire since months (some would say... years) and only a limited free time for hobby related stuff. Unfortunately retirement is over 15 years in the future ? But some day in the next few months I will publish the next firmware with extended memory test. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 On 10/18/2019 at 6:16 PM, Nezgar said: All of these conventional testers only tell you the byte address or bank of extended memory that is faulty, which is not useful to identify which specific RAM chip is bad. (U26-U33 in the 130XE) This is one of the killer features of the Sys-Check software for the main bank (U9-U16). (and @shoestring's tester for that matter too) Probably already mentioned. But if you criss cross a certain line on the xe-mmu you swap base mem with extended mem. Then you could check it and get insight in which chip is faulty. Simply add 17 to the chipnumber syscheck reports (so if it sais chip 09 is faulty you will have to check on 26) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 11 hours ago, tf_hh said: This is already planned (partly started) and on my roadmap. The V2.0 Sys-Check firmware will test expanded memory and more stuff. Thanks for the update! I am in absolutely no rush, just wanted to suggest it for "whenever" it comes. 3 hours ago, Marius said: Probably already mentioned. But if you criss cross a certain line on the xe-mmu you swap base mem with extended mem. Then you could check it and get insight in which chip is faulty. Simply add 17 to the chipnumber syscheck reports (so if it says chip 09 is faulty you will have to check on 26) Yep I did. Swapping R110/R111 achieves this. I've had to do it on two 130XE's now - first one had bad memory in the primary bank, and swapping it got the machine usable. The second had bad memory in the extended bank, so I had to do this swap so that I could diagnose which of U26-U33 were bad. The resistors look like they're in a loving embrace. I was able to identify the bad chip at U30 marked with the Red X, when Sys-Check indicated U13 with the resistors crossed: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Been having fun with another 130XE... seized power switch replaced, sys-check diagnosed 2 bad RAM chips in the main bank and I replaced those, but SDX claimed there was no extended memory. Swapped R110/R110 to test the extended 64K with sys-check, and it indicated U15 (so U30 since it's swapped), so I desoldered, socketed and replaced that one too. Now, re-testing the extended bank with R110/R111 still reversed Sys-check would go all the way through the first 48K, then freeze with a green screen part-way through testing $C000-FFFF with the rainbow screen. It did this for 4 tries, but then started completing successfully reporting the usual "ram is good" on further tries after that. Anyone seen this behaviour before? Of course all those remaining MT DRAM's can't really be trusted, so another might still be marginal, but curious if it might be something else like MMU. Edit: issue persists after a few hours off. This time was a "grey" stop screen. But reset key will restart the test. Guessing maybe more bad RAM in the under-OS area. I tested with SpartaDOS 3.2, which I believe uses that area for i/o buffers, and found that any DIR command was showing corrupt directory entries on any disk. *weird*. Anyhow, will swap R110/R111 again in a few days when I can get back to it and test some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 On 10/25/2019 at 7:39 PM, Nezgar said: Edit: issue persists after a few hours off. This time was a "grey" stop screen. But reset key will restart the test. Guessing maybe more bad RAM in the under-OS area. I tested with SpartaDOS 3.2, which I believe uses that area for i/o buffers, and found that any DIR command was showing corrupt directory entries on any disk. *weird*. Anyhow, will swap R110/R111 again in a few days when I can get back to it and test some more. When I have to gamble... try to replace the MMU first. This behavior could happen if something around PB0 (os/ram selection, pin 9 of MMU) or mirror selftest enable PB7 (pin 6 of MMU) is defective. Mostly dependend on scratched traces etc., when somebody before tried to install a memory expansion. Watch the traces around PIA, if there are any cuts or patched cuts. Next is the PIA itself. Sometimes the portbits have only 3 volts or so in "high" state. Sometimes less. Could be end up in toggling and cause this error. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Thanks, tonight I removed and socketed the original MMU. I replaced it with an equivalent GAL16V8D, and the symptoms were the same. PIA portB PB0 is 144mV with OS OFF, 5.07V with OS=ON I swapped the R110/R111 resistors back to the original positions, and now Sys-check passes "Good" for 10 times now.. and XRAM test of extended memory passes also. I think this is down to "MT" memory quality and timing - not good enough to use as primary RAM. Remember Atari didn't use MT RAM for the first chip in the main 64K from the factory (in this case NEC), possibly to improve stability to the poorer quality MT chips..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Nezgar said: I think this is down to "MT" memory quality and timing - not good enough to use as primary RAM. Remember Atari didn't use MT RAM for the first chip in the main 64K from the factory (in this case NEC), possibly to improve stability to the poorer quality MT chips..... This is a good reason... I also always ask myself why Atari mostly use ONE different RAM chip in the 130XE series... After all, I strongly suggest to every owner of computers to repair sent to me to replace ALL MT-DRAMs at one time. Even when you fix the machine by replacing one defect Micron DRAM, the next will follow within some months. That´s my experience. Today a desoldering gun is not so expensive anymore, so it´s a good thing to remove them all (cut the pins), use good sockets and this machine is serviceable for the next century ? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Laser Lynx Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Hi guys, would it be possible to play 130XE homebrews, like for example Laura and Crownland with the standard Sys-Check V2.2 on a 65XE or 800XL? I mean are the games compatible with the RAMBO format? Does it matter if the games are loaded from tape, floppy or cart for them to work (if they work with Sys-Check)? I'm frantically looking to get an Atari 8-bit computer mainly for those games (as a starter of course), that's why I'm asking. I've really gotten excited about the A8's ? Thanks for any help! Edited October 30, 2019 by Turbo Laser Lynx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 5 hours ago, Turbo Laser Lynx said: Hi guys, would it be possible to play 130XE homebrews, like for example Laura and Crownland with the standard Sys-Check V2.2 on a 65XE or 800XL? I mean are the games compatible with the RAMBO format? Does it matter if the games are loaded from tape, floppy or cart for them to work (if they work with Sys-Check)? I'm frantically looking to get an Atari 8-bit computer mainly for those games (as a starter of course), that's why I'm asking. I've really gotten excited about the A8's ? Thanks for any help! One of the sys-check's modes does exactly what you need for a stock machine. With the sys-check in extended memory mode, it defaults to 576K "RAMBO" compatible. (64K internal + 512K extended on sys-check: PIA bits 2,3,5,6,7) It is software re-configurable to "Compy shop 320K" with independant ANTIC banking supported for maximum 130XE compatibility (PIA bits 2,3,6,7) or no extended memory. The programs are posted somewhere earlier in this topic. A few caveats to watch out for: - Some 65XE's do not have a ECI port next to the cartridge port, so cannot be used with sys-check. - Some games & demos like Crownland only support a PAL machine, not NTSC. But that may be less of an issue since your profile indicates you are in Finland. But it's something to check for if you are purchasing online. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overgrouth Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 How many of these are left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 40 minutes ago, overgrouth said: How many of these are left? Click the link in the signature of any of tf_hh posts, the PDF includes stock levels and when last updated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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