Atari 1090XL Schematics?

[Dropcheck]

Can someone verify if on a 600XL PBI pins 47 & 48 are tied to +5V?

[evilmoo]

I was trying to think why when the computer can support 8 different PBI devices, the 1090XL only had 5 slots. The preliminary specs called for 2 RS232C and 1 centronics ports. But the pics you posted had no ports or circuitry for them. I wonder if they were left off as a cost cutting measure, assuming that some third party would fill the gap.

 

Maybe they were going to reside on a daughterboard.

[Dropcheck]

 

Maybe they were going to reside on a daughterboard.

 

There's no provision for a daughter board other than the 5 PBI slots.

[evilmoo]

 

There's no provision for a daughter board other than the 5 PBI slots.

 

Sorry, I meant a card that would reside in one of the five PBI slots. Are there any pictures of the back of a 1090? Were there holes (or even indentations) where they would reside otherwise?

[Dropcheck]

 

Sorry, I meant a card that would reside in one of the five PBI slots. Are there any pictures of the back of a 1090? Were there holes (or even indentations) where they would reside otherwise?

 

Not that I can see of the pictures I've collected.

[Rybags]

There's various pictures around. A few good ones I found here http://blog.3b2.sk/igi/post/Atari-1090-XL-Expansion-System.aspx

shows plastic retainers at front and PC-style removable slats at the rear.

[Dropcheck]

I understand the need for +5V, and +/- 12V. Does anyone know or can guess why there is a need for +10V in this box?

[Mathy]

Hello Lenore

 

Yes, the 600XL has +5DC on pins 47 and 48. 10VDC is "needed" on pins 1 and 2 on the connectors inside the 1090XL.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[gozar]

Is there a reason why the 1090XL was cancelled? It seems to be relatively cheap to produce, and would have solved a ton of Atari's issues at the time with expandability.

[flashjazzcat]

Well, there was nothing to put in it. I think Atari cancelled all the "serious" projects to focus on the gaming side, and PBI devices were a casualty. Atari never marketed a single thing which plugged into the PBI/ECI AFAIK (edit: aside from the 1064), and even dropped the ECI entirely on the US 65XE.

Edited May 15, 2016 by flashjazzcat

[Dropcheck]

Hello Lenore

 

Yes, the 600XL has +5DC on pins 47 and 48. 10VDC is "needed" on pins 1 and 2 on the connectors inside the 1090XL.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

Hi Mathy,

 

But what needs +10V? IBM-PC stuff?

[Bryan]

I'd guess the 10V (unregulated) line is there for devices that need extra power and/or will have their own regulators.

[Mathy]

Hello Lenore

 

But what needs +10V? IBM-PC stuff?

 

 

I have NO idea what they need(ed) +10VDC for. If you look close enough at the pictures of the cards, you might be able to follow the traces to see what's connected to the pins that provide +10VDC. Maybe for something that connects to the cards? Like an old telexmachine maybe?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

PS looking close enough at the pictures might also reveil of it would be possible to drop the +10VDC and use the pins for something more useful.

[Dropcheck]

Hello Lenore

 

 

 

I have NO idea what they need(ed) +10VDC for. If you look close enough at the pictures of the cards, you might be able to follow the traces to see what's connected to the pins that provide +10VDC. Maybe for something that connects to the cards? Like an old telexmachine maybe?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

PS looking close enough at the pictures might also reveil of it would be possible to drop the +10VDC and use the pins for something more useful.

 

 

I was thinking about using some of the reserved pins on the PBI for something else. Maybe some of the 130XE signals from the ECI/Cart slot. I don't know.

 

I just don't see why they are routing +10V to the slots. It's going to be low current. They also have +12V going to one or two pins, also low current.

 

I was actually thinking about having separate jacks for +/- 12V. Those jacks would be able to handle sufficient current for real HD's etc.

[kenames99]

the 10v is the raw b+ for the expansion cards, they have regulators on them to regulate the 10v down to what was needed. at the time that was 5v.

[Dropcheck]

the 10v is the raw b+ for the expansion cards, they have regulators on them to regulate the 10v down to what was needed. at the time that was 5v.

 

 

Okay...... kinda makes sense. Still the documentation only specifies 5V, +/- 12V. I guess another example of Atari not following their own specifications.

[sup8pdct]

Maybe it is a case of the latest specification not being out there yet.

 

 

If you look at some of the cards, you can see a regulator towards the front.

 

James

Edited May 16, 2016 by sup8pdct

[sup8pdct]

This should help you out a little. Is the tracks near power plug under some components.

 

James

[Dropcheck]

Update:

 

Well I've managed to put together a prelim schematic for the 1090XL Prototype board as far as the expansion part is concerned. It does not include the power supply part. I leave that to someone else (hint....hint....)

 

I didn't do this alone. James (sup8pdct) was gracious enough to verify my crude attempt at a beginning schematic and correct my errors.

 

To date this appears to be the only known schematic in the wild. Curt supposedly has the full schematic as well as additional info, but he has not responded to either an IM or a email to the address on his website. So take that for what it's worth. It may mean nothing.

 

Prelim 1090XL Schematic.pdf

 

My idea is this:

 

I would like to recreate the purpose of the 1090XL, not necessarily the physical box, with a modern well filtered and mannered power supply. . With the advent of SMD technology and MCU's of the modern era, there should be no need for the big hulking box the actual 1090XL was. I know too much modern here.

 

I propose a open framework box that will be compatible with the Atari 600XL/800XL with PBI's and 130XE with ECI through an adapter. This framework will function as a standard interface to the computer's parallel port. Much like the original design of the 1090XL this framework will provide power and signals to allow at least five and possibly the full eight individual pbi devices allowed in the original Atari OS design specs.

 

Of the known PBI devices so far, it seems most can be easily converted to the framework standard interface. This will in some cases simplify their design and parts count and eliminate the problem of housing the device for the developer. For new designs as well.

 

Right now I know this is long on idea, but short on facts. I wanted to gauge the interest. And get input on what signals will need to be present on the individual PBI slots for the greatest range of expansion cards. Keep in mind this is not a hack job on the inside of the computer. At most we would be picking signals off the pbi/eci bus for manipulation. ie on the 800XL running an adapter to pick off the cartridge signals.

 

Now you say what about the Black Box.....? .... what about the MIO? ..... what about XYZ? These are all fine interfaces in and of themselves, but they are not open. And are mired in legacy restrictions of the original design and bios of their time. Expansion is problematic as well. I don't believe the Black Box is being made anymore, and while MetalGuy66 is still trying to keep the MIO alive again it is a closed system with a steep price tag for an unboxed/unpopulated version. Not to gain say MetalGuy66, he has put a lot into the production of that system and should be able to recoup his costs.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

Dropcheck

[evilmoo]

I would be interested in one, especially if it had cards supporting I2C, USB or ethernet. I could also conceivably help with firmware.

[Lynxpro]

Yeah, and what would you do with more than 8 anyway? Not to mention past that, you're going to be having potentially major bus loading and timing issues anyway.

 

*80 Column Card, eliminating the "need" for the later XEP80.

 

*CP/M Card with Z80. Rather pointless today but it was an interest then and this is a hobby for almost all of us anyway. Would work with the 80 Column Card.

 

*Networking. It would've been that Alan Kay Net thingie back then that the Atari folks were developing. Ethernet today.

 

*I/O Card. Parallel and Serial ports. Multiple SIO ports? SIO 2.0?

 

*Sound cards. Back then, perhaps maybe multiple POKEYs, AMY, GI AYAs like the Mockingboard, Yamaha, Speech Synthesis, etc.

 

*CPU Card for adding Intel 80186 or 286 chips for PC compatibility. The other Ted Hoff at Atari Inc was a big time Intel supporter.

 

*Androbot development card.

 

*Internal AtariLab cards for school district purchases.

 

*Analog controller ports. Most likely supporting the 5200 but third-parties could've supported PC Gameport or Apple II analog ports.

 

*MIDI.

[+Allan]

How about a newer printer card so I could use Printshop on my Epson inkjet printer or a modern laser printer?

 

Allan

[Dropcheck]

Of the 7 signals present on the 130XE Cart/ECI pinout not on the 600XL/800XL which would need to be buffered?

 

D1XX

 

HALT

 

RD4

 

RD5

 

S4

 

S5

 

CCTL

[Dropcheck]

How about a newer printer card so I could use Printshop on my Epson inkjet printer or a modern laser printer?

 

Allan

 

I am thinking along the lines of a builtin 'card' that will have 1 standard parrallel port and 2 DB9 standard centronics ports. It would take at least 1 of the 8 possible card ids.

 

Originally the 1090XL was supposed to have that. It obviously got dropped prior to the prototype being manufactured. No circuitry is there for it on the board.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Dropcheck

[Mathy]

Hello Lenore

 

It shouldn't be to difficult to make the BlackBox willing to share the bus. Both Guus Assmann and Matthias Belitz told me so. Bob Puff told me that the BlackBox used 4 of 5 PB IDs (the lower ones). If no other software, used for/in the BlackBox, accesses the other IDs, the BlackBox can be made to free up the bus when it's not in use. Parts needed wouldn't cost more then 50 cents, Matthias told me. The only thing they didn't want to tell me is how to do it.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy