5200 Newcomer Troubleshooting

[mikey.shake]

Hi, gang!

 

New to the 5200. Experienced 2600 user.

 

I picked up a 4-port console for a deal (untested, but with warranty, at $20 plus two games). Missing the switch box and the good-shape controllers are still at the store waiting to be picked up (they were renovating the place, so they got shuffled around). I buy the switchbox, plug everything in, and I get nothing. Just to save time, here's how things look:

 

 

Well, not "nothing". I get the red LED powering on the console (!), and snow, but no real change in the A/V, though I feel like it might shift a little bit when I cycle the power on and off. The LED tells me means there's power coming into and out of the switchbox and up into the console. Other than that, it's just static on the TV (an early-2000s Trinitron, works great with everything else, including the console plugged into "Input B").

 

I've checked to make sure the console is set to channel 3 and the switchbox to "normal". No amount of gentle jostling of the cables is fixing anything.

 

The following threads seem similar, but it's hard to say if it's the same thing:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/202486-my-5200-stopped-working/

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/199871-4-port-switch-box-broken/?do=findComment&comment=2552665

I (finally) bought a multimeter in the hopes that I can get this up and running. I'm not experienced, but I can follow directions. Can anyone give me some dumbed-down help on places to poke around? It sounds like that IC in the switch box might be the culprit, but since I don't have other decks to swap it, I'm having trouble isolating the problem.

Help?

[tdididit]

the best what you can do is mod your console and throw away switchbox.

 

https://repo.palkeo.com/repositories/mirror7.meh.or.id/ebooks/Hardware%20Hacking%20Have%20Fun%20While%20Voiding%20Your%20Warranty.pdf

 

on page 268

[mikey.shake]

Thanks for the link! Yeah, I definitely plan to mod it in the near future.

 

For the moment, I guess I'm trying to figure out whether I have a faulty switchbox or a faulty console. If the 5200 is a dud, I'd rather return it and get my money back (or put it toward another one), rather than work at modding a console I don't know works.

 

Would cracking open the switchbox and testing that chip be the way to go?

[mikey.shake]

Since I don't know whether the switchbox is faulty or if the console has a problem, is there a way to test the switchbox before I attempt to replace the IC? I have a multimeter, but don't wanna fry anything!

[CRTGAMER]

My 5200 4 port switchbox was acting up a while back, resoldered the RCA Jack to the PCB was the solution. A side note, always make sure the power brick is not plugged into the wall until the RF cable is hooked up between the switchbox and 5200.

 

I noticed you have run the output side to a manual switchbox. No need for that once you repair the 5200 auto switchbox, it has an auxiliary RF input.

[chas10e]

I know this is a silly question , but is there a game in it ?

 

did you clean the cart & wiggle that around ? ...

 

that was the problem with my 4 switch , just the cart slot was dirty ( or the game )

[mikey.shake]

My 5200 4 port switchbox was acting up a while back, resoldered the RCA Jack to the PCB was the solution. A side note, always make sure the power brick is not plugged into the wall until the RF cable is hooked up between the switchbox and 5200. I noticed you have run the output side to a manual switchbox. No need for that once you repair the 5200 auto switchbox, it has an auxiliary RF input.

 

 

Thanks for the tip on the power hookup, it really is good advice. My wife's a video editor and tech coordinator and has trained me well. A bad choice on not being careful about power inputs once fried a beautiful vintage guitar effect I had (not my fault, either! but a valuable lesson either way...). Took me ages and cost a bundle to get it fixed back up.

 

And thank you also for the tip on the auxiliary input/antenna... you know, I saw it there, but didn't think to use the switchbox as a pass-through for another system! It saved me needing to rig up another two A/B switchers into a convoluted "bank A / bank B", or buy a 4-input one or whatever... but more on that in a sec.

 

 

I know this is a silly question , but is there a game in it ?

 

did you clean the cart & wiggle that around ? ...

 

that was the problem with my 4 switch , just the cart slot was dirty ( or the game )

 

 

Not a silly question, haha. Frankly, thanks for asking. Sometimes it's easy to overlook the simplest explanation. I tried it with 4 different carts, and cleaned them first, just to make sure. But glad to hear you solved your own issues!

 

AND THE GOOD NEWS... IT WORKS!

 

I got sick of the catch-22. I couldn't gauge whether or not the switchbox was in working order, because I didn't know whether the console was working. And I couldn't know whether the console was working without knowing whether the switchbox was doing its job. I didn't want to return either because I didn't know which one was the problem. "Why send back a perfectly good 5200 for $20 if the switch is the problem?" "Do I really want to pay another $6-$8 to ship the power supply BACK to the online seller and sink even more money into this?" It was getting really frustrating. I didn't want to just dive into modding the console if it didn't need to be, and I wasn't in a hurry to tear open the switchbox and swap the chip if I was going to send it back anyway. That seems like a shitty thing to do, even if I was being honest about everything. How would a hypothetical seller know I didn't fuck it up? Just wouldn't seem like good karma.

 

I'd paid $20 for the console, another $10 for a working power supply (the one included, i found, was a dud), $30 for the switchbox from online. So I'm $60 in on a setup at this point. Already above what I figured I was signing on for when I impulse bought. And this wasn't even controller problems.

 

I had a pretty good hunch it was the switch, because there was zero audible "click". Reading on the internet didn't exactly tell me how loud it would be, so I didn't know if it was just real quiet. But I wasn't hearing anything. So that was a good sign.

 

Incidentally, I got locked out my apartment for three hours this morning. Went down to the corner to get coffee, came back, and froze my butt off. It was 90 in Boston yesterday, it was about 55 this morning. Good timing, Mikey. But I had lots of time to scour any thread I could find with references to 5200 switches, clicks, and power input issues. Lots of time. LOTS.

 

So, in a fit of pique, I went down to the local electronics store (decent selection, terrible experiences with the staff), and was able to get the LM393 (well, the NTE equivalent, the NTE943M), and thanks to experience with modding fuzzboxes (mmmm the LM308 Rat), I replaced the chip (socketed, of course!). I'm mostly clueless beyond knowing what parts look like what. Other than that it's solder/unsolder by numbers with the guidance of folks like you.

 

My wife helped me hook everything back up carefully, and lo and behold, there was Q*bert! So thanks everyone for helping out. I appreciate it. I've wanted one of these since I was a little kid. The first comic book I ever bought. Marvel Team-Up #147. The inside front cover had the "comic panel" ad for Mario Bros (which I'd loved in the arcade, and I think I had just barely played Super Mario Bros by this point). And the back cover was an ad for Star Wars: The Arcade Game. They advertised the 2600 and 5200 versions. Clearly, this machine was superior . [i had fond memories of that SW ad until someone pointed out on here about a year ago that you can see a big ol' booger up that guy's nose. I can't un-see it.]

 

Now I'm just waiting for the store to call me about those controllers. They say if they can't find them (having been shuffled around during a recarpeting), they'll order some, so I guess now it's just a waiting game. (Unless anyone in the Northeast wants to help a new guy out with a deal. )

 

And last night I picked up a set of shelves at Target to re-arrange my home office. It's nice to see the whole family together like this.

 

 

Excited to be joining Team 5200! Thanks for all the help!

Edited May 29, 2016 by mikey.shake

[CRTGAMER]

The first party controller buttons are bad, you might want to look into modded controllers with the gold inlay flex circuit. If you can find 5200 Wicos on the cheap, purchase immediatly. The 5200 has great Arcade classics and there is even the Official 5200 Tempest cart released decades later right here on Atari Age. One game that is not a well known is 5200 Ball Blazer, a great game with the floaty analog sticks!

[mikey.shake]

Just in case anyone was interested, I did finally get the controllers from the store, but they weren't in the best shape, play-wise. Cosmetically, though, they can be cleaned up!

 

I took them apart, following guides and suggestions here, and got them both working quite well. One had some of the contacts lift from the plastic as I was cleaning them (even before the eraser, I was just using a cotton swab and alcohol), but I tried to straighten and re-place them under where the button should press and it seems to be fine, for now. Ehhhh, a little crumply, but should act fine as a "Player 2" until I get another one to repair. The pencil eraser trick was impressive -- the contacts went from carbon-black to shiny copper with a little gentle elbow grease! Not "like-new" or anything, but every button seems to be easily functional now, and aside from a little squeaking, the sticks work fine. (Despite my having to get used to them.)

 

I've only got a few games so far (Mario Bros, Pengo, Q*Bert, and Centipede), but I'm definitely enjoying them. I get why people love this console so much, because beyond the questionable controller issues (not playability, but reliability) it seems to be nothing but good solid arcade ports from the early '80s, and who can complain about that?

 

A Wico controller with a Y-cable is likely my next hardware stop for this one. I've read the threads, but as of the current moment, does anyone have one they suggest?

 

Thanks for the tips, everyone. It took about 30 years, but I'm glad I got one.

 

EDIT: Oh, one last question. What are your expert thoughts on replacing the mylar flex circuit? In the controller with the thrashed contacts, it seems like a good, cheap alternative fix. Is it worth it? It is just a matter of unsticking the top sides and unclipping from the wiring port? Let me know. I'm considering grabbing a few...

Edited June 1, 2016 by mikey.shake

[CRTGAMER]

I've only got a few games so far (Mario Bros, Pengo, Q*Bert, and Centipede), but I'm definitely enjoying them. I get why people love this console so much, because beyond the questionable controller issues (not playability, but reliability) it seems to be nothing but good solid arcade ports from the early '80s, and who can complain about that?

 

A Wico controller with a Y-cable is likely my next hardware stop for this one. I've read the threads, but as of the current moment, does anyone have one they suggest?

 

Thanks for the tips, everyone. It took about 30 years, but I'm glad I got one.

 

EDIT: Oh, one last question. What are your expert thoughts on replacing the mylar flex circuit? In the controller with the thrashed contacts, it seems like a good, cheap alternative fix. Is it worth it? It is just a matter of unsticking the top sides and unclipping from the wiring port? Let me know. I'm considering grabbing a few...

 

Get the gold flex circuit I mentioned earlier, Google for the best price. Be sure you pop the cover off the top three buttons BEFORE removing the screws from the bottom shell. Personally I prefer the Wicos, so much better and have an option of mechanical lockout of the centering springs. Look for the 5200 Trakball as well, it has the regulation "pool table" sized Cue ball and no issues of the button controls.

 

The 5200 sound chip is phenomenal, duplicates the 80s Williaims Arcade cabinets perfectly. A shame the newer 7800 console downgraded the sound chip due to costs and 2600 compatibility. Look for the article here on Atari Age concerning Tempest and the sound chip. Or see my Tempest Thread:

 

Atari 5200 Tempest Review / 5200 Trakball Repair - http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=293108#p293108

Edited June 1, 2016 by CRTGAMER

[CommodoreDecker]

On 6/1/2016 at 8:39 AM, CRTGAMER said:

 

Get the gold flex circuit I mentioned earlier, Google for the best price. Be sure you pop the cover off the top three buttons BEFORE removing the screws from the bottom shell. Personally I prefer the Wicos, so much better and have an option of mechanical lockout of the centering springs. Look for the 5200 Trakball as well, it has the regulation "pool table" sized Cue ball and no issues of the button controls.

 

The 5200 sound chip is phenomenal, duplicates the 80s Williaims Arcade cabinets perfectly. A shame the newer 7800 console downgraded the sound chip due to costs and 2600 compatibility. Look for the article here on Atari Age concerning Tempest and the sound chip. Or see my Tempest Thread:

 

Atari 5200 Tempest Review / 5200 Trakball Repair - http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=293108#p293108

 

Hi! Pardon my late party crashing!   

 

Awesome link and info, thanks!

 

All the Wicos I've found for sale have mechanical lockouts that no longer work. Is there an easy fix? 

 

Seconded on the gold flexcircuit, either v9 or the improved v10 that is a lot easier to insert into the controller (longer edge and is more secure...)

 

In repairing my 5200 controllers, I removed the top button cover before reassembling but after disassembly. The flexcircuit comes out easily enough, putting it back in renders the circuit a crinkled nonworking mess - but maybe it's easier to pop off before unscrewing the bottom? Or is it preferred to remove the top button cover first just so one doesn't forget and ends up ruining the flex in a way a former owner of a joystick I bought did by accident? ($7 plus shipping to replace, it's a nominal problem... or $20 if one goes for the gold...)

 

The trakball has a replacement board with gold button contacts too, though most of its board for the keypad and start/pause/select use gold already. Weird...  

 

I wonder if Williams used POKEY for their games' sounds, many of which are close if not identical...  

 

I recall reading the 7800 was originally going to have the same POKEY sound chip put in, but to save on (a small amount of) cost they backtracked and made it at cartridge-level. A silly mistake IMHO as most games didn't want to add the expense, which customers don't want either.  I'm grateful that even two games used it... With modern day demos simulating Zelda and other games of 1986, there's no reason the 7800 couldn't have succeeded. Atari wasn't wrong in sticking to the arcade hits, but for whatever reasons they didn't do too many original titles of the successful feel and scope that Zelda and SMB had.   A shame on that as well, since it could handle sprites in the way NES couldn't, and far more of them.