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Atari Flashback Classics for the XB1/PS4


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Remember the Game Room on XB360? It was too expensive, too late, but at least it had everything in one place. If the XB/PS frameworks allow you to build a hub world for launching content from other purchases, please consider it for the future.

 

Zen Pinball on PS4 does this, albeit in a super-clunky way -- you need to "import" prior purchases, and to get them on PS4, you need to buy them for PS3 or Vita or they won't be forward-compatible. And getting the individual purchases on Vita needs to happen via manually installed updates.

 

You know what? Separate volumes is probably OK. Sigh. icon_twisted.gif

 

I agree with you 100%. There's probably no perfect solution here. There are obvious downsides with that, but also upsides, certainly.

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Not the games, the list of achievements. :-D

 

Ah, no, sorry. We're working on the official press release now, but that won't go into specific features at this early date (and I can all but guarantee none of the future press releases will either). Once it's released, though, I'll see if they'll let me release the working list of achievements. That would be kind of neat to put out there.

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Ah, no, sorry. We're working on the official press release now, but that won't go into specific features at this early date (and I can all but guarantee none of the future press releases will either). Once it's released, though, I'll see if they'll let me release the working list of achievements. That would be kind of neat to put out there.

 

Thank Bill! I'm really looking forward to seeing those. Lots of opportunities to get creative.

 

And thanks to Moycon for reminding me of the Amazon Prime pre-order savings!

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You're either failing to understand the realities here or choosing to not understand the realities. Either way, it's not that complicated. If the retailers won't carry the product, there will be no product, period. We come up with the fully formed idea and then present it to retailers to see if they want to carry it. If they do (or if they do and want tweaks to make it something they'd feel more comfortable selling), the retail buyers agree to buy x number of units, which makes it possible for us to produce y number of units to meet that demand and any additional demand. So, like almost every other product, retailer input is critically important here. Obviously the hardcore Atari fans make up a portion of the audience for this type of product, but it's not the only audience. If $20 or less for 50 games is somehow an affront to hardcore Atari fans, then perhaps said fans can't ever be satisfied by a mainstream product.

 

Also, considering we have something like five months to develop the product and bring it to market, I think we might be cut just a little slack that the first two products consist of games that have been collected before. Again, it's not intended as the only volumes we bring out, but you've got to start somewhere.

 

Anyway, that's the last I'll say on this particular aspect of the subject. You can be offended, feel it's a rip off, feel like we don't have gamer interests in mind, etc. I'm part of it and telling you that none of that is true, which you can take or leave. I'm here because I care about the community, I care about the product, etc. Normally, you'd just be pissing in the wind here, just bitching with no context. I'm giving you rare context here, something I probably shouldn't even be doing, but I do because when I'm on the other side I love to know the "why" of things.

 

Yes, it's a business. Yes, they want to make money like every business. Yes, there are many other ways of presenting an offering like this, but no, none of those other options were practical at this time. You don't have to be happy with what is being offered here - and the simple solution to that is just don't buy it - but hopefully you can understand the difference between your lovely, idyllic vision, and the realities of business.

 

Bill, believe me, I appreciate your explanation, but I also understand the realities of the business already. There should be a way for my "lovely, idyllic vision" (as you put it) to meet in the middle with a sensible business plan. Remember that business is ultimately about satisfying consumer demands,

 

One point that you have continued to avoid addressing is why this isn't a single, unified collection for $19.99?

 

You already said that retailers resisted the proposed concept of selling a single pack for $40, because $20 is the "sweet spot". So, with that in mind, why didn't the publisher propose a single "complete" pack for $20...the same way it's being sold on PC right now...the same way it was sold 12 years ago on game consoles?

 

Did retailers balk and say, "Oh my gosh, you're offering too much value for the money!"? Why wasn't this a concern with the collections on PS2 and Xbox from 12 years ago?

 

You continue to miss the point that this compilation is regressive, that it offers less for the money compared to the offerings from two console generations back.

 

Other companies have no problem increasing the content and value when updating their products for successive hardware generations. Why is this product an exception here?

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I'll probably get these, as I'm a sucker for these collections. I wish there was a way to get the digital version at the preorder price retailers like Amazon have, as I much prefer not putting in a disc now.

 

I'm hoping that if these do well and we see future versions, there might be an opportunity to visit some of the unique games from the 8-bits and 5200. I'd love to be able to play the original Star Raiders on my XBox One, as well as Coutermeasure, Final Legacy, 8-bit Dark Chambers, 8-bit Caverns of Mars and Food Fight. Unfortunately, it looks like many of the best 8-bit and 5200 games were based on non-Atari licenses, although given AtGames licensing success with Taito for the Flashbacks, that would open up Jungle Hunt and Space Dungeon.

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I don't know. This is hard stuff. This seems to be that kind of stuff, where the community is supposed to support the product and all, but I also don't understand why this couldn't be 20 dollars for one disk with 100 games. 1080p? seriously... Is the online play code brand new, or is it something being reused? Trophies are not really a feature you can claim will cost you money to implement.

 

I sincerely do't really see good will from Atari here. I don't see them making an effort to release the best possible. So as a response I don't think anyone should go out of their way to support it.

 

Maybe I'm wrong. I haven't really seen any explanation given that justifies asking a premium for the game. 40 dollars is the price of a new large budget game. The discs themselves cost in the realm of cents. That's not really that relevant.

 

To each their own. I'm not seeing the justification for it. 40 dollars for a collection that sells for 20 on steam? On one side people will say they want to have the physical copy of thema, but on the other side the only thing this brings to the table is online functionality, so a physical copy is irrelevant, since once the servers are down it doesn't really matter anymore.

 

An Atari Flashback costs 45 dollars with what, 80 games?

 

This really is a hard pill to swallow.

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Trophies are not really a feature you can claim will cost you money to implement.

 

 

 

 

I'm obviously out of touch, but I fail to see the appeal of trophies in a game designed decades before the concept. If it costs money to implement them, don't spend the money. Instead, spend the money on including more games.

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I'm obviously out of touch, but I fail to see the appeal of trophies in a game designed decades before the concept. If it costs money to implement them, don't spend the money. Instead, spend the money on including more games.

I think you HAVE to slap trophies on your game to publish them on these consoles, but I'm not 100% sure. This really is a to each his own thing. I don't see the point in trophies in any game.

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Did retailers balk and say, "Oh my gosh, you're offering too much value for the money!"? Why wasn't this a concern with the collections on PS2 and Xbox from 12 years ago?

 

Actually, at one point the PC collection was briefly available as a free pack-in with a box of cereal. That's how I got mine. The value for money was very high with that purchase!

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Actually, at one point the PC collection was briefly available as a free pack-in with a box of cereal. That's how I got mine. The value for money was very high with that purchase!

Just a couple weeks ago, if so long, the 80 games atari collection for pc, DRM FREE, was around 5 bucks on the humble store. I got that one.

 

But that one doesn't have achievements and online I think.

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I think you HAVE to slap trophies on your game to publish them on these consoles, but I'm not 100% sure. This really is a to each his own thing. I don't see the point in trophies in any game.

 

Yes, I think that's part of the review process, just like controller compatibility and region localization. Most people like trophies and achievements. It makes playing the old games a bit more purposeful.

 

 

Seriously? What has happened to this world?

 

We are continuously working to improve your user experience.

 

 

Actually, at one point the PC collection was briefly available as a free pack-in with a box of cereal. That's how I got mine. The value for money was very high with that purchase!

 

I remember when the graffiti versions were promotional items at Taco Bell.

 

Just a couple weeks ago, if so long, the 80 games atari collection for pc, DRM FREE, was around 5 bucks on the humble store. I got that one.

 

But that one doesn't have achievements and online I think.

 

They have the Atari 80 Classic Games (DRM free) for $10 now

and the Atari Vault (online multiplayer, leaderboards, Steam controller support) for $20

 

But before anyone dumps on Bill again, remember that AtGames had Atari Vault on discount with free Colecovision and intellivision packages on their Direct2Drive site. That was a nice deal!

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One last time... You can't compare this to a digital only Steam PC release. You can't compare this to a mobile release. You can't compare this to a release from 2003 that involved different developers and publishers. I mean, you CAN do all that (and I'm sure it will be pretty much non-stop here and elsewhere from a vocal minority), but it doesn't change what the reality is. The economics of 2016 on a physical and digital console release are what they are now. These economics apply to the present developers and publishers, not what past developers and publishers were able to do on unrelated platforms. Again, if you see NO value in 50 games for $20 (or less) for any reason whatsoever, so be it. Plenty of other people will. And for those who don't see the value, hopefully you'll see the value in the next batch of 50 games for $20. If not, there's not much else that can be done. Sorry. It's not like anyone is prohibiting you or discouraging you from playing these (and future) games on any other platform where you'll get the value you crave.

 

As for Trophies and Achievements, I personally love them. It's satisfying getting that little pop-up saying I accomplished some goal or another. And in looking at the list of potential Trophies and Achievements it can give you new ways to play/new targets to shoot for. Like Leaderboards, it's another way to show off your prowess, hearkening back to the old days of arcade high scores. It's a pure value-add. And yes, features like that are an absolute requirement to get published.

Edited by Bill Loguidice
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Remember the Game Room on XB360? It was too expensive, too late, but at least it had everything in one place.

 

Oh geeze yes. That was cool, in fact I fired it up about a week ago. Of course nothing is available to purchase now, but I could still decorate rooms, and I had about a dozen games purchased, including a couple Atari 2600 games (Haunted House and Adventure) at $3 a game , I think you could upgrade the games at $5, but can't recall the specifics. (Yes even something like 3-D Tic-Tac-Toe was at least $3!) the price to have everything in one place was pricey in that case. I looked it up, there were 88 Atari 2600 games released for the game room, if you bought them all that would come to $264.

 

These collections at around .32 a game are a much better value I think even if you have to swap disks sometimes.

 

The achievements are awesome in my opinion. The fact the games were released before achievements were a thing seems unimportant. They are games, and there can be goals placed on the gameplay. I do understand that some people find achievements silly and unnecessary, which is great, love em or hate em, just goes to prove everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if no-one else in the world agrees or even cares about it. Luckily they're easy to ignore if you're a hater.

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So this is definitely NOT the same people who did Atari Vault on PC? I think I missed some posts here.

 

Yes, it's the same developers. The economics are different on a PC digital only release on Steam versus a digital and physical release on PS4 and Xbox One. The publishing setup is also different, with additional parties involved on the console side. Again, even though the foundation is the same, the specifics are quite different. That's the same reason why you'll have the same game release at the same time on PC and console at different price points and have different sale and price drop schedules. They're effectively completely different markets. The PC market is almost always a race to the bottom in terms of price point, while the console market tends to sustain pricing.

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With the license situation not helping later Atari platforms, I hope that they consider making more of their arcade catalog available that's already free and clear, later on.

 

Food Fight on Game Room and Sprint on Atari Vault were a breath of fresh air after the otherwise excellent pair of DS collections just maintained the exact same arcade lineup as Atari Anthology had, minus the excellent Tempest Tubes (How'd that earlier collection escape the criticism of going to a two volume format with ~50 games each?).

 

They weren't exactly opening the vault to add new lots of new content each time, but we had always gotten several new additions when a new release happened like when AA added Black Widow, Liberator, Lunar Lander, Major Havoc, Red Baron, and Space Duel to the stuff that had already been emulated on the PS1 era collections.

 

I want to see Fire Truck, Night Driver, Food Fight (While I can sadly see why the microprocessor B&W era before Asteroids is all but ignored, I'm sad that this one wasn't carried forward), Football, Video Pinball, Monte Carlo, Qwak, Super Bug, Tank 8, and many others.

 

Also, it's a bit more glaring now because these first two volumes are just Atari 2600 and arcade games.

 

Was there ever any consideration towards making a separate arcade and 2600 volume? I don't subscribe to much of the criticism from Agent X, but I do think that this would've been a more appropriate divide at least for those of us around a place like AtariAge.

 

I'm sure that marketing concerns and wanting to be able to promote that each release has 50 games overruled it though, not to mention potential confusion when someone remembers loving Missile Command but inadvertently buys the wrong volume with the version that they weren't seeking out.

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Was there ever any consideration towards making a separate arcade and 2600 volume? I don't subscribe to much of the criticism from Agent X, but I do think that this would've been a more appropriate divide at least for those of us around a place like AtariAge.

 

I'm sure that marketing concerns and wanting to be able to promote that each release has 50 games overruled it though, not to mention potential confusion when someone remembers loving Missile Command but inadvertently buys the wrong volume with the version that they weren't seeking out.

 

No (plus, there weren't that many arcade games available for the first two volumes, and we want to have no fewer than 50 games per volume (not counting any DLC)). These are envisioned as game-driven, not necessarily platform driven. Future volumes have potential to feature three or more different platforms in some cases. From an emulation standpoint, many older arcade machines can be considered their own platform (although don't take that to mean I'm applying that to my statement in the last sentence; for those purposes, arcade is arcade) since sometimes the only thing in common between it and another machine may only be the microprocessor that it uses.

 

Anyway, for these first two volumes I did my best to group like games. To use the Missile Command example, I didn't want a fan of that game to have to buy both Volume 1 and Volume 2 just to play the Atari 2600 version on one and the arcade version on another.

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Thanks Bill

 

If they ever do anything with classic arcade racing games, I hope that you talk them into wheel support. More so than ever before, wheel accessories have a strong foothold in the console marketplace today. So such games don't need to be crippled like they once were when they were a niche item at best.

 

Doesn't help with free spinning wheel games like Sprint and I doubt that VCS Night Driver would've benefited much, but if they ever did a Midway compilation for instance, it would be nice to see for games like Roadblasters and Hard Drivin'.

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For chrissake....I saw this coming as soon as Bill said he's involved with these:

 

I decided to fork some money down from today's paycheck. $32 bucks to have this set on a console with classic cover art. There, I did it. (again).

 

But I demand a Colecovision collection too. Come on Bill ;)

 

pac%20sucker.jpg

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But I demand a Colecovision collection too. Come on Bill ;)

 

Let's just say there are lots of options on the table. For a hypothetical ColecoVision one, though, it wouldn't just be that platform since that wouldn't be sustainable by itself.

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I hope Activision comes to their senses and lets you guys have a crack at their library of classics at a fair price one of these days.

 

And I know it's all but certainly wishful thinking, but the thought of a controller adapter to allow VCS accessories like AtGames' own Flashback accessories is an entertaining thought. They're already halfway there by virtue of what they manufacturer for their plug and plays...

 

Too bad that platform holders lock everything down in the accessory department these days. Then they could've maybe snuck in USB Stelladapter support like Atari Anthology almost got years ago. :(

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Let's just say there are lots of options on the table. For a hypothetical ColecoVision one, though, it wouldn't just be that platform since that wouldn't be sustainable by itself.

How about a collection of Exidy, Universal, and the other B-list arcade games that were ported to Colecovision, home and arcade versions side by side?

 

I'd probably buy that. Twitch your left ear if I'm describing something that is similar to what AtGames is planning, Bill!

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One last time... You can't compare this to a digital only Steam PC release. You can't compare this to a mobile release. You can't compare this to a release from 2003 that involved different developers and publishers. I mean, you CAN do all that (and I'm sure it will be pretty much non-stop here and elsewhere from a vocal minority), but it doesn't change what the reality is. The economics of 2016 on a physical and digital console release are what they are now. These economics apply to the present developers and publishers, not what past developers and publishers were able to do on unrelated platforms. Again, if you see NO value in 50 games for $20 (or less) for any reason whatsoever, so be it. Plenty of other people will. And for those who don't see the value, hopefully you'll see the value in the next batch of 50 games for $20. If not, there's not much else that can be done. Sorry. It's not like anyone is prohibiting you or discouraging you from playing these (and future) games on any other platform where you'll get the value you crave.

 

 

Fair enough, although I still don't understand why the collection needed to be split up, unless Atari's own licensing fees are exorbitant.

 

I truly feel that the publisher should have pushed harder to make a single "complete" collection possible at something closer to that $20 price. I know you're saying that there are different sets of challenges here, working with different developers and publishers, yet numerousbother companies somehow manage to "get it done" without excuses. I've never heard of retailers pressuring other game developers/publishers to break up games or strip out content.

 

I'll accept that "it is what it is", but I can't say that I'm happy about it.

 

Just one other question: Isn't there any concern from Atari and/or the publisher about how this product would review? I can't help but think that the video game media will inevitably compare this collection to the one on Steam now, or prior PC/PS2/Xbox offerings, and savage it on the value proposition. Atari should be interested in building their brand, and poor reviews here could cause lasting brand damage. They really need to put their best foot forward here, and after weighing the evidence so far (including rushed development schedule, lack of 5200/7800/etc. content, egregious "selection" in segregating the volumes with nearly no regard for chronology/genre consistency) I don't get the impression that they're doing that.

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