Nobody Cares About Intellivision

[BassGuitari]

BTW, everyone in the Intellivision forums should "dislike" his video. Let's show him that we do care!

Are our egos that fragile?

 

Besides, it's not like we really *want* to be included or recognized by the Acolytes of Latter Day Classic Gaming. In fact, a few of us deliberately distance themselves from them.

 

Admittedly, it does feel a little frustrating being effectively boxed out of [what was once] our own scene. On the other hand, I think we're just mad that we're not the gatekeepers of retro gaming anymore. Time stops for no one, I guess.

[Keatah]

Wow, you're right! I even gave a "Like" to that post, but I totally forgot about it. I certainly wasn't intentionally trying to steal your words, but I'm sure that your post influenced my thinking, so I went back and added a citation to my earlier post.

 

I've been thinking along similar lines after talking with my college-age students about their perceptions of game history, and also after hearing Pat and Ian discussing in several of their podcasts why the pre-crash consoles are slowly being forgotten, both from a collector's (Pat) and a reseller's (Ian) perspective. I think there are several reasons why this is happening, and at some point I'd like to make them the subject of a new thread. As someone who remembers the pre-crash years pretty well, and as someone who still gets a lot of enjoyment out of the games from that period (including Intellivision games!), it's disconcerting to think that all of the excitement and innovation of those years could be flushed down the memory hole, as if they never happened.

 

The buck stops here. Any future digital archaeologist will have a blast and discover a treasure trove of information if they ever go through my time capsules.

 

Nothing on the internet is permanent. Long lived? Maybe. Sometimes. But sites that host manuals and documentation will drop off the radar over time as their webmasters keel over.

 

I've already run into many many instances where something was available 4 years ago, but not any more. And the only places that stuff likely exists is on select hard drives randomly scattered around the world. Vainly I'd like to think just mine, and mine alone!

 

Anyways, this stuff is being forgotten because the people that have sentimental attachment to it are now become pre-occupied with old-age stuff, like retirement and nursing homes and fighting who gets the shower next.

 

Ehh, I'm going to cross-post this into a new thread!

[+fdr4prez]

 

The buck stops here. Any future digital archaeologist will have a blast and discover a treasure trove of information if they ever go through my time capsules.

 

Nothing on the internet is permanent. Long lived? Maybe. Sometimes. But sites that host manuals and documentation will drop off the radar over time as their webmasters keel over.

 

I've already run into many many instances where something was available 4 years ago, but not any more. And the only places that stuff likely exists is on select hard drives randomly scattered around the world. Vainly I'd like to think just mine, and mine alone!

 

Anyways, this stuff is being forgotten because the people that have sentimental attachment to it are now become pre-occupied with old-age stuff, like retirement and nursing homes and fighting who gets the shower next.

 

Ehh, I'm going to cross-post this into a new thread!

Try and see if you can use the Wayback Machine to see if site has been archived.

 

But it is hit or miss, and no attachments...

[empsolo]

Accidental Post.

Edited June 5, 2016 by empsolo

[Keatah]

The INTV only holds any interest to me because I rarely saw one as a kid. Everyone had an Atari, and there was always just that one weird kid in the neighborhood that had an Intellivision. Once in a while, you'd go play it, so it was just "different". None of the games are any fun to me except Astrosmash, and the Atari version is even better.

 

I always thought the Intellivision to be more sophisticated than the Atari VCS. It was a great alternative to mindless shooting games or other repetitive games. The games were smart and in-depth and required some level of thinking.

 

 

As far as the NES- I already had a C64 for years when it came out, and an Amiga shortly after that, so who would care about the NES? It was just for little kids that didn't have computers.

 

Little kids that have now grown up and now make 7-figure incomes.

 

 

[empsolo]

 

As far as the NES- I already had a C64 for years when it came out, and an Amiga shortly after that, so who would care about the NES? It was just for little kids that didn't have computers.

You don't sell 61 million consoles world wide by appealing just to kids. The NES and the Famicom had a much more broader consumer base.

[+DZ-Jay]

 

I always thought the Intellivision to be more sophisticated than the Atari VCS. It was a great alternative to mindless shooting games or other repetitive games. The games were smart and in-depth and required some level of thinking.

 

 

 

Little kids that have now grown up and now make 7-figure incomes.

 

 

 

7-figures? wow! Them's a lotta figures!

 

Had you said 6-figures, I would have agreed. There aren't many 7-figured grown up video-gamer kids. As far as i can tell...

Edited June 5, 2016 by DZ-Jay

[AtariLeaf]

 

I always thought the Intellivision to be more sophisticated than the Atari VCS. It was a great alternative to mindless shooting games or other repetitive games. The games were smart and in-depth and required some level of thinking.

 

 

 

That is one area where I think the Intellivision controller is tolerable, on games that are slower paced or require more thought like board, puzzle or rpg games like D&D. It's twitch games, which are my favorites, where the controller becomes more of an obstacle to me.

[Keatah]

 

7-figures? wow! Them's a lotta figures!

 

Had you said 6-figures, I would have agreed. There aren't many 7-figured grown up video-gamer kids. As far as i can tell...

 

Both 6 and 7 figures. With the majority being 6.

[1980gamer]

Yes, 7 figures....

$12,500.97

[+fdr4prez]

Yes, 7 figures....

$12,500.97

I count that as 10 figures...

 

What, you don't count the dollar sign, comma and decimal as figures?

 

I guess they are just shapes then.

[Keatah]

Try and see if you can use the Wayback Machine to see if site has been archived.

 

But it is hit or miss, and no attachments...

 

First place I went to. Some of the pages are indeed archived. And some of the attachments, too. But not everything. Never everything.

[+DZ-Jay]

Yes, 7 figures....

$12,500.97

 

LOL! True dat!

[mr_me]

You don't sell 61 million consoles world wide by appealing just to kids. The NES and the Famicom had a much more broader consumer base.

I remember commercials for the NES; there was a robot and some spinning tops. I wasn't sure what it was but at the time I wanted a computer. Looks like it was first marketed as a toy. Don't underestimate the toy market, over 1 Billion barbies have sold. But you're right, the NES appealed to more than just kids.

[empsolo]

It was marketed as a toy initially because retailers didn't want to be burned by consoles again.

[freewheel]

I don't want to put too much blame on the #CUPodcast guys. The perspective that "nobody cares about the Intellivision" didn't originate with them, and it seems to be the new consensus that is emerging about all the pre-crash consoles, not just the Intellivision.

 

The prevailing view seems to be that the NES was the first video game console that really "got it right," and that the pre-crash consoles aren't any fun to play anymore. They're just the early failed experiments and evolutionary dead-ends of the video game industry, and as BassGuitari said in another thread about collecting, are only worth revisiting for the purpose of considering the necessary mistakes which made the NES possible.

 

You're very much correct about the pre-crash consoles fading from view. But if you ask me it's got very little to do with technology, and more to do with timing:

 

1. Look at the demographics. The Baby Boomers are the largest generation in Western history - and they, for the most part, weren't major gamers. Their children, the Echo or Ys, really weren't born until 1980 or so. This ended up being the second largest generation. What consoles do you think these kids grew up on? The NES, SNES, and Genesis, of course. Which are by far the 3 biggest consoles you see at retro shows and shops (they're now starting to get swamped by the Xbox/PS2 era, but bear with me). There's a reason for that. It's because there are metric assloads of these games out there, and the biggest gamer market, who are just now starting to eat into their Boomer parents' huge inheritances, just so happen to have the most nostalgia for the exact same systems. Us lonely GenXers get absolutely swamped by the market size and consequent disposable income of the Ys.

 

2. Look at the sales figures from back then. Because of the crash itself, we only really ever had one decent selling (by post-crash standards) console - the 2600. And it sold only half as well as the NES. And the next closest pre-crash competitor is our beloved Intellivision - at 1/10th the sales.

 

3. Think about how long consumer electronics stay in people's houses before going to the trash, and when people started collecting retro stuff heavily. I've been doing this longer than many, and I remember when you could still find a lot of 2600 stuff floating around. But it wasn't at retro game stores or conventions. It was at comic shops and thrift stores at best. And you never saw NES/SNES games in these places, because those were still the current systems! Used games were being sold at Blockbuster. The entire idea of a retro game store, where you could actually resell this stuff for a profit, didn't even exist (at least in most cities) until the NES-era collecting crowd had come about. And by then, most people had long since thrown out their 2600s and Intellivisions because no one would give any money for them. I remember picking up a 2600 with 50 games for $5-10 at garage sales. Several times in a single summer. It was madness. By the time the NES hit garage sales, people wanted at least $25 for a system with 10 games. Still cheap as dirt, but by comparison? And that lasted for about 5 years tops, before retro shops (and the early days of Ebay) started snapping up the inventory. By that point, the pre-crash stuff was mostly thrown away - who the hell keeps a video game console around for 20 years other than us nutters?

 

It's no wonder that there's little memory of anything pre-NES. By today's standards, hardly anyone owned one, and hardly anyone ever kept one. The great irony about all of this is that NES/SNES era games are insanely common. For every Astrosmash cart out there, there are at least 100 Super Mario Bros. Yet somehow CIB Astrosmash can be had for a buck, but people pay $10-20 (no, seriously) for a loose SMB/Duck Hunt.

 

I saw this in the comics business. For a time, people really turned their noses up at actual rare comics. They wanted, well, what everyone else wanted. And they viewed earlier material as "primitive" or "old fashioned" or "failed attempts". Of course that little bubble burst - HARD - and now the only things worth money are the legitimately rare items. We'll see what happens with retrogaming.

 

[IntellivisionDude]

And for the record i didn't take the comments from Pat about Intellivision during the video too serious. Just thought it would make a good discussion and it has. I still enjoy the podcast and watch it all the time. Second best podcast next to The Intellivisionaries

[+BBWW]

Crap I better sell my collection fast....

[m-crew]

Nobody Cares about anything nowadays .. oh the sorrow!! lol

[+DZ-Jay]

 

You're very much correct about the pre-crash consoles fading from view. But if you ask me it's got very little to do with technology, and more to do with timing:

 

1. Look at the demographics. The Baby Boomers are the largest generation in Western history - and they, for the most part, weren't major gamers. Their children, the Echo or Ys, really weren't born until 1980 or so. This ended up being the second largest generation. What consoles do you think these kids grew up on? The NES, SNES, and Genesis, of course. Which are by far the 3 biggest consoles you see at retro shows and shops (they're now starting to get swamped by the Xbox/PS2 era, but bear with me). There's a reason for that. It's because there are metric assloads of these games out there, and the biggest gamer market, who are just now starting to eat into their Boomer parents' huge inheritances, just so happen to have the most nostalgia for the exact same systems. Us lonely GenXers get absolutely swamped by the market size and consequent disposable income of the Ys.

 

2. Look at the sales figures from back then. Because of the crash itself, we only really ever had one decent selling (by post-crash standards) console - the 2600. And it sold only half as well as the NES. And the next closest pre-crash competitor is our beloved Intellivision - at 1/10th the sales.

 

3. Think about how long consumer electronics stay in people's houses before going to the trash, and when people started collecting retro stuff heavily. I've been doing this longer than many, and I remember when you could still find a lot of 2600 stuff floating around. But it wasn't at retro game stores or conventions. It was at comic shops and thrift stores at best. And you never saw NES/SNES games in these places, because those were still the current systems! Used games were being sold at Blockbuster. The entire idea of a retro game store, where you could actually resell this stuff for a profit, didn't even exist (at least in most cities) until the NES-era collecting crowd had come about. And by then, most people had long since thrown out their 2600s and Intellivisions because no one would give any money for them. I remember picking up a 2600 with 50 games for $5-10 at garage sales. Several times in a single summer. It was madness. By the time the NES hit garage sales, people wanted at least $25 for a system with 10 games. Still cheap as dirt, but by comparison? And that lasted for about 5 years tops, before retro shops (and the early days of Ebay) started snapping up the inventory. By that point, the pre-crash stuff was mostly thrown away - who the hell keeps a video game console around for 20 years other than us nutters?

 

It's no wonder that there's little memory of anything pre-NES. By today's standards, hardly anyone owned one, and hardly anyone ever kept one. The great irony about all of this is that NES/SNES era games are insanely common. For every Astrosmash cart out there, there are at least 100 Super Mario Bros. Yet somehow CIB Astrosmash can be had for a buck, but people pay $10-20 (no, seriously) for a loose SMB/Duck Hunt.

 

I saw this in the comics business. For a time, people really turned their noses up at actual rare comics. They wanted, well, what everyone else wanted. And they viewed earlier material as "primitive" or "old fashioned" or "failed attempts". Of course that little bubble burst - HARD - and now the only things worth money are the legitimately rare items. We'll see what happens with retrogaming.

 

 

Bravo! You have articulated it beautifully. I agree.

 

There is one more piece of the puzzle that I think is important, but that you dismissed from the start: the fact that the NES has a direct and palpable lineage to modern games. In this way, it heightens the feeling on kids that it was the first console to "get it right," whether accurate or not.

 

Here's what I mean: The Atari VCS, Intellivision, ColecoVision, Odyssey^2, Telestar, Home Pong, etc.; were all manufactured during the early days of video games and there was much experimentation in the type of hardware and software that would be useful and desired. Those weird controllers (trust me, joysticks are weird nowadays!) are only the surface; there's also the strange and primitive games themselves (what, no platformers or first-person-shooters? wtf?), the minimal marketshare, etc.

 

You put all that together -- especially far removed from their contemporary context -- and you can see how some people may take them as failed attempts at early gaming. Yet, the NES has a controller that feels closer to the "real thing": it is held in two hands, has multiple ergonomically placed buttons, a "D-Pad," etc. The NES also has the early versions of recognizable game mechanics -- not to mention, well renown franchises that still exist to this day -- such as platformer games, dungeon crawlers, fighting and flying games, etc.

 

That's also a big part of the reason. For a "millenial" just coming across an NES and an Intellivision, side-by-side, it shouldn't surprise anybody when he regards the Intellivision as some weird freak, a cul-de-sac in the evolutionary path of video gaming.

 

Of course, we see past all this and recognize the first and second generation consoles as what they are, and place them in their proper historical context -- but they cannot. How could they? The differences are greater than the similarities, and the history is written by the victors.

 

If it is hard for even dyed-in-the-wool retro-gamers that like the Intellivision to recognize that the "weird disc" is the unsung and solemn grand-daddy of the D-Pad, and that the common Atari Joystick is pretty much gone and forgotten in the modern lineage (except on flight simulators; but then flight sticks are a different beast); what chance do the younger generations have?

 

-dZ.

Edited June 7, 2016 by DZ-Jay

[wolfy62]

I love what I have, I love what I collect, but yes the fact is as an Intellivision collector I am pretty old and outdated.

 

That will not stop me from collecting for it, though I realize the collection I have is most likely going down in value.

 

Do I want to keep up and chase, buy and play a lot of games for more recent systems? Probably no. It gives me more time to go to sporting events with my Son, spend time with my Daughter and take my Wife on Vacations.

 

Most importantly, everyone ........have a great day!

[Keatah]

The intellivision or any other game console is intrinsically worth nothing. It's only the perceived demand by other collectards which assigns X value to it..

 

And most people when they start getting older place less emphasis on small tedious things like videogames.

[freewheel]

 

There is one more piece of the puzzle that I think is important, but that you dismissed from the start: the fact that the NES has a direct and palpable lineage to modern games. In this way, it heightens the feeling on kids that it was the first console to "get it right," whether accurate or not.

 

Very true. And I didn't intentionally dismiss it, I just kinda got long-winded enough and left it out. Many of the modern genres were established in the NES era. Pre-crash was 95% arcade coin gobblers, but the NES brought in fully-realized RPGs. Puzzle games. Things that just weren't possible in 4KB ROMs (but are starting to see the light of day with homebrew, which is awesome). And of course like you say there are the franchises - Mario and Mortal Kombat and a hundred others that still exist. No matter how many times someone tries, no one really has made Pac-Man successful since 1983 or so.

 

Mind you, I'm noticing something with the youngest of adult gamers now - they look at the NES exactly the same way as 30 year olds currently look at Atari. Let's face it, platformers haven't been big in a while (modern retro styles notwithstanding). FPS games didn't really exist on the NES. Touch/casual type games certainly didn't. And they're even making the same comments about controlles: wires? wtf! 2 Buttons? How the hell can you play anything remotely interesting with only 2 buttons?? Where's Halo? Portal? CoD? Plus the thought of actually purchasing physical media that contains a game is becoming... antiquated to some people. Sad to me, but that's progress I guess.

 

It'll be interesting to see if the trend continues. Because to me, the NES and Inty aren't all that far separated. The former has a higher resolution, a bit more memory, and larger ROMs. But fundamentally they're really the same thing. But that's cuz I'm ooooooooold.

[HunterZero]

It comes down to the stage of life that people who have nostalgia for these old devices are currently going through, and how much time and money they have to devote to reliving their childhood.

 

If you grew up with a particular console or spent a lot of time with it in your youth, you are going to remember it fondly and have disproportionate nostalgia for that console.

 

When you reach your late 20's to early 30's, you are at a golden age of your life where you start earning reasonable money and have disposable income, but probably don't yet have the financial commitments of mortgage and children.

 

Most people who grew up with the Atari 2600 and Intellivision are now 40+. These people now very likely have children and partners to spend their time and money on, if they hadn't already left these games behind.

 

Those who are under 40 are more likely to have been gifted an NES, or Genesis/Megadrive, or Super NES or even N64. They might remember a parent or grandparent having an older console, but the attachment to it won't be as great.

 

With the rise of the YouTube star, the first generation of "retro game hunters" shows focus heavily on the NES, since that's what the video makers were most nostalgic for at the time. In the USA in particular, Nintendo the NES has a huge pop culture relevance. And Nintendo are still around, which makes people curious about their past consoles. This adds to the collectable status of the console and games. The NES was not so prevalent here in Australia, I remember seeing more kids with SEGA Master Systems.

 

Pat was born in 1980, prime territory to have the most childhood nostalgia for the NES.

 

With substantially less nostalgia for pre-crash consoles within the current YouTube crowd, and perceived low quality compared to the "saviour of the home console industry" NES, it's no wonder the older consoles get less attention.

Edited June 8, 2016 by HunterZero

[Nebulon]

Three words, "TRON Deadly Discs". Seriously, if that doesn't get your attention.... The Intellivision had a cross-section of games that no other system did (plus the running humanoid animation was pretty dope).

 

Starting console history with the NES is a mistake of epic proportions. While I respect the NES, I find that it's also the beginning of the trend toward a very limited number of gameplay types dominating a platform. I've been working my way through hundreds of NES games in the past decade and I'm noticing that there's a huge amount of repetition in genres on that system. Side-scrollers and plan-view adventure games take up the bulk of the titles.

 

Contrast that with the sheer variety in the titles released for the earlier systems.

 

If someone wants to give a console credit for "getting everything right", I'd vote for the TG-16. That's the epitome of a hardware configuration that truly brings home the 80s arcade experience with almost no compromises.