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Atari 800 power adapter: Can I use DC? 5200 adapter?


CZroe

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I'd think that the resin would actually keep in heat.... I think it might be indeed electrical isolation (PSU's often need double isolation) and to prevent humming. My 1050 transformer definitely hums ...unless I turn it sideways and then back again....

It's not bad per-se....I have a UK Atari PSU which is also fully in resin but works fine. It doesn't feel warm at all at any time and I think it's bigger than the Ingot.

 

I had a look at the 400/800 PSU part schematic (which are the first PSU schematics I have ever seen to "go from right to left" instead of the other way around which feels much more natural for us left-to-right readers) but you definitely can NOT put DC in to make the 400/800 work because the RAM needs -5V and +12V. The -5V would never be created when you put in DC. Not sure what the voltage doubling diodes will do (which are needed to get the 12V).

 

 

[EDIT] Sorry...this was already pointed out by BillC in an earlier post......sorry ! :D

Edited by Level42
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I'd think that the resin would actually keep in heat.... I think it might be indeed electrical isolation (PSU's often need double isolation) and to prevent humming. My 1050 transformer definitely hums ...unless I turn it sideways and then back again....

It's not bad per-se....I have a UK Atari PSU which is also fully in resin but works fine. It doesn't feel warm at all at any time and I think it's bigger than the Ingot.

 

I had a look at the 400/800 PSU part schematic (which are the first PSU schematics I have ever seen to "go from right to left" instead of the other way around which feels much more natural for us left-to-right readers) but you definitely can NOT put DC in to make the 400/800 work because the RAM needs -5V and +12V. The -5V would never be created when you put in DC. Not sure what the voltage doubling diodes will do (which are needed to get the 12V).

 

 

[EDIT] Sorry...this was already pointed out by BillC in an earlier post......sorry ! [emoji3]

LOL! Yeah, I bumped my thread from years ago and then quickly derailed it with talk of the XL’s ingot PSU. [emoji4] The thing is, my 800XL has the beige PSU styled after the system itself, so I don’t even need this. This thread actually predates me even finding my 800XL.

 

I’m a lot more familiar with the internals and differences of both these days. Made repairs and upgraded both of them too and I’ve been breaking in my Atari Ultimate cart for a year and a half now. [emoji4]

 

Can’t believe what I was missing out on all these years!

 

Oh yeah: The resin probably doesn’t readily conduct heat like a metallic heat sink but it does increase the thermal mass and has as much surface area as the inside of the shell (almost as much as the outside). Probably a bit better than air enclosed in the case, since there are no vents.

Edited by CZroe
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I dunno about the stuff they used but its common for those eppxies to be heat conductive

 

As far as why its for buzzing transformers yes but more along of those things are going to have the shit kicked out of them and you do not want to dislodge components when it falls off the table the 17th time

 

Obiously its an optional design not all power bricks are potted

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As BillC stated, and I mentioned, you will get a voltage drop across diodes in the rectifier, and since you are only using 2 out of the 4 diodes within the rectifier, and it is expecting AC, you may get some big peaks and troughs in the output.

 

Since this is also a 36 year old computer, it is very likely to have tolerances that are much wider, and probably also lacks any capacitors for smoothing a DC input (I may be wrong here, I'm a bit of a lay engineer), and Atari were not notable for good circuit design, or for using the best components.

 

 

I don't like saying: you're wrong on about everything in these two lines because it doesn't sound nice but....you're wrong on about everything in these two lines :D

 

First: the tiny voltage drop across the diodes first of all also happen when applying AC to them. It wouldn't be a problem at all if DC was put in, in fact it helps lowering the DV voltage a bit (which might be needed depending on the actually applied DC voltage) I also don't see why a good regulated DC voltage input to it would create big peaks in the output.

 

Now....about the capacitors you really miss..... there ARE very big capacitors because AC voltages has a lot of ripple which needs to be eased out, which require rather big electrolytic capacitors....so....putting in a DC voltage....which should already by (almost) free of AC already....should be no problem at all.....IF Atari hadn't used 4116 RAM chips which require three voltages: +5V, -5V and +12V. If +5VDC was all that was needed inside the machine, it would be perfectly OK to put in a DC voltage.

 

And then comes the last comment which _really_ triggered me to respond..........

 

On what basis do you write that Atari was not notable for good circuit design ?

 

Sorry....but this is an outrageous insult of the people who created the first arcade videogame, created the first commercially successful home console and created countless of firsts in the videogame technology. You really think they were unable to design a decent power supply ?

 

The PSU designs of Atari are simply according to common PSU designs of that time. They still work today. Which also brings me to the second accusation you put out there saying Atari wasn't using the best components. OK...unlike the arcade department, the consumer/homecomputer devision didn't use Nichicon caps.....but even so.....I have worked on many Atari 8 bit machines and I always measure all caps on them. I have yet to find ONE bad cap.

Also...you have to think what the design goals were for those little computers. I bet they didn't intend them to still work after 40 years....and yet....the design of Atari's 8 bit computer VLSI chips is so good that they run cool and reliable even now.....yes of course sometimes chips die.....but they certainly have a low failure rate.

 

So....now go and wash your mouth with soap and say nice things about Atari's brilliant engineers.

 

Mmmmm....I wonder.....maybe you mixed up Commodore's engineers with Atari's ? Now THEY did a piss-poor job on PSU's AND their VLSI chips which are HOT HOT HOT and are becoming extinct in these days....and yet they outsold three-fold compared to Atari 8 bit computers...so you would expect many more SID's and VIC(2) chips to be available....but they are rare and expensive now....

 

 

 

Now....don't take this all too seriously.....I like a bit of drama sometimes..... but I did find I had to stand up for Atari's engineers :D

Edited by Level42
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I don't like saying: you're wrong on about everything in these two lines because it doesn't sound nice but....you're wrong on about everything in these two lines :D

 

First: the tiny voltage drop across the diodes first of all also happen when applying AC to them. It wouldn't be a problem at all if DC was put in, in fact it helps lowering the DV voltage a bit (which might be needed depending on the actually applied DC voltage) I also don't see why a good regulated DC voltage input to it would create big peaks in the output.

 

Now....about the capacitors you really miss..... there ARE very big capacitors because AC voltages has a lot of ripple which needs to be eased out, which require rather big electrolytic capacitors....so....putting in a DC voltage....which should already by (almost) free of AC already....should be no problem at all.....IF Atari hadn't used 4116 RAM chips which require three voltages: +5V, -5V and +12V. If +5VDC was all that was needed inside the machine, it would be perfectly OK to put in a DC voltage.

 

And then comes the last comment which _really_ triggered me to respond..........

 

On what basis do you write that Atari was not notable for good circuit design ?

 

Sorry....but this is an outrageous insult of the people who created the first arcade videogame, created the first commercially successful home console and created countless of firsts in the videogame technology. You really think they were unable to design a decent power supply ?

 

The PSU designs of Atari are simply according to common PSU designs of that time. They still work today. Which also brings me to the second accusation you put out there saying Atari wasn't using the best components. OK...unlike the arcade department, the consumer/homecomputer devision didn't use Nichicon caps.....but even so.....I have worked on many Atari 8 bit machines and I always measure all caps on them. I have yet to find ONE bad cap.

Also...you have to think what the design goals were for those little computers. I bet they didn't intend them to still work after 40 years....and yet....the design of Atari's 8 bit computer VLSI chips is so good that they run cool and reliable even now.....yes of course sometimes chips die.....but they certainly have a low failure rate.

 

So....now go and wash your mouth with soap and say nice things about Atari's brilliant engineers.

 

Mmmmm....I wonder.....maybe you mixed up Commodore's engineers with Atari's ? Now THEY did a piss-poor job on PSU's AND their VLSI chips which are HOT HOT HOT and are becoming extinct in these days....and yet they outsold three-fold compared to Atari 8 bit computers...so you would expect many more SID's and VIC(2) chips to be available....but they are rare and expensive now....

 

 

 

Now....don't take this all too seriously.....I like a bit of drama sometimes..... but I did find I had to stand up for Atari's engineers :D

Speaking of... I had to wait almost a year to get my SwinSID Ultimate for my C64 after the SID was fried. I took precautions and ordered a C64 Saver and tested the PSU before attempting to power up the first time, but I still managed to instantly fry my SID. D:

 

I got my C64 Saver in the mail the night before and left for work early enough to stop by my twin bro and hook up our C64 for the first time (shared collection). Unfortunately, he was preparing to leave in just minutes... and we had just realized that there was no place to plug it all in where we had stashed it. I didn’t want him to miss it booting for the first time so I made a frantic dash to get power strips, power supply, C64 Saver, et al plugged in to the opposite side of the room. While I was under the table getting the plugs sorted he was moving the C64, monitor, drives, etc. While still under the table, I passed him the power cable with the C64 Saver on the end while he passed me the Commodore 1702 monitor AC cord and I suddenly realize I had to re-do everything.

 

While I was redoing it all, he complained that none of the ports were labeled and asked me where to plug the power in. Knowing that there was only one port shaped correctly for it, I told him “the only one it fits.” He popped it in and complained that he also couldn’t find the monitor port, prompting me to quickly plug in the AC side and come out from under the table to assess what was next.

 

Oops.

 

Turns out, 270° and 262° DINs don’t need any force at all for the two pins to deflect into the only holes that don’t perfectly line up. He had plugged power into the monitor port, and I had dealt the death blow by plugging the other end into the wall. :(

 

Early C64 breadbins didn’t have port labels on the back and Commodore made it that much worse by not choosing a completely different connector that can’t be mixed up. Sucks! The world lost another SID.

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It was the right adapter [for non-XL original Atari 800]... C014319, I think. It does look surprisingly like a 5200 adapter, but it’s definitely not.

c0ad0ae8ec2d91d2292354f9a6826ea1.jpg

OK, it was actually CO17945, but these supposedly shipped as a replacement for CO14319. Either way, I’ve happily used it with my original 4-port 800 just fine and it’s officially compatible. [emoji4]

 

Was surprised to find exactly what I needed, locally, and for a much more reasonable price compared to eBay.

Edited by CZroe
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c0ad0ae8ec2d91d2292354f9a6826ea1.jpg

OK, it was actually CO17945, but these supposedly shipped as a replacement for CO14319. Either way, I’ve happily used it with my original 4-port 800 just fine and it’s officially compatible. [emoji4]

 

Was surprised to find exactly what I needed, locally, and for a much more reasonable price compared to eBay.

I think ebay is becoming place of last resort, I don't find much reasonable there... glad you dealt with real reasonable people in person and got a reasonable price. :)

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While the CO14319(only 15.3VA) is enough for a 16K machine which is the maximum the 400/800 initially shipped with, it is not really enough for a machine with 48K using 4116 DRAM(3 x 16K RAM cards) which is why Atari later switched to using the 810(31VA) power supply.

 

I blew the fuse in a CO14319 after I upgraded an 8K 400 to 64K, with a Mosaic 64K RAM Select board which has 32 x 4116, no issue with the power supply prior to that.

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While the CO14319(only 15.3VA) is enough for a 16K machine which is the maximum the 400/800 initially shipped with, it is not really enough for a machine with 48K using 4116 DRAM(3 x 16K RAM cards) which is why Atari later switched to using the 810(31VA) power supply.

 

I blew the fuse in a CO14319 after I upgraded an 8K 400 to 64K, with a Mosaic 64K RAM Select board which has 32 x 4116, no issue with the power supply prior to that.

Yeah. The FAQ says as much. Atari must have under-estimated the amps required for a decked-out 800 at the time... even though I read that many of them shipped with 48k.

 

Mine came with 48k installed with full cartridges. The colors of the labels on the additional carts don’t match the base memory, implying hat they were produced later. I’m told that they stopped using carts and just installed bare boards when they were shipping them fully populated anyway.

 

IOW: Mine might be user-upgraded and the original PSU didn’t work properly anymore, hence it was not included from the pawn shop I found it at. Guess I’m lucky the replacement I found happened to be the 31VA model. :)

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