What did you get rid of that you wish you hadn't?

Scooter83 · January 5, 2017

I haven't gotten rid of anything on the a8 that wasn't a duplicate the 2600 5200 and 7800 there are items I wish I had back. But luckily I've bent stubborn not to let you a8 stuff go.

toddtmw · February 20, 2017

This. This thread. What this thread represents keeps me up at night

I got an Atari 800 for my Birthday when I was a Freshman in high school. January 27, 1982. Atari had just changed the 800 to default to 48K of RAM. It had 3 of those giant 16K modules in the back. I got the 410 cassette with it. Then I eventually got a Rana 1000. Then when the 130XE came out, I got one of those and an Indus GT. I kept both computers and I built a switch box to switch the SIO for the drives (And my Okimate 10 color printer) between the 800 and the 130XE. This switch box was a work of the best shoddy soldering you've ever seen. I got this giant switch with enough leads on it and it was round, so I mounted it in a Campbells soup can.

When the ST's came along, I sold my Atari 800 and 130XE. But for some reason, I kept the Rana and the Indus. (I really have no recollection of the series of events that led to that, but that is what I had left.) My Wife's family had an Atari 800XL. It stopped working, I suspected it was the power supply, so I took it and put it in the same box with the floppy drives and all of my disks.

3 years ago, we were getting ready to move. (This part should sound familiar to pretty much everyone here, right?) I had a box with my A8 stuff and a box of Atari ST disks. The storage room would look much better (and the house would be easier to show) if that stuff wasn't there, so it went out to the curb.

I'm not sure I really miss the hardware that much. (Altirra is a REALLY good emulator, overall a MUCH better experience than a real Atari ever was.) I don't even miss the disk with commercial games on them or the cartridges, although I do miss the Track and Field controller I had... What I miss the most is all of the disks that had all of the software I had written in BASIC over the years. I even submitted an app to Antic Magazine. It was an app I used to make inserts for cassette cases that listed the songs on both sides and the name of the cassete on the spine. Interestingly, even though they rejected my app, they released one that was similar (and admittedly better) than mine a couple months later.

I have spent the past couple of weeks re-writing a crappy little game I made back then. It turned out pretty much exactly like it did 30+ years ago. Still just as crappy, but at least I have that back...

Todd

Keatah · February 20, 2017

I'm not sure I really miss the hardware that much. (Altirra is a REALLY good emulator, overall a MUCH better experience than a real Atari ever was.)

Yes. Altirra provides a superior experience. It easily replaces all the hardware we had as kids back in the day, and then some. Not to mention the high level of accuracy, reliability, and consistency. This is the premier way to run all the 8-bit software.

john_rm_1970 · February 21, 2017

I personally find a complete disconnect when sat infront my my I7 6700k, 16Gb Ram, and nvidia 1070 PC when using Altirra. It just feels so empty and fake.

Plus, if you want reliability then why not get a SIO2SD device ? They're fast, reliable, and you can store every single Atari game/util on a small SDCard.

You can't beat sat infront of the REAL thing, a decent CRT monitor, a decent joystick, and a SIO2SD device. I have a 800XL, SIO2SD, 1010 Tape Deck and 1050 Disk Drive - if required. Philips 8833 Mk1 CRT, TAC2 & Competition Pro microswitch joystick, and emulation just doesn't come close to the experience of the real thing.

I find Altirra good for times when I'm on ebay and I see a tape or disk game I have never heard of, I can then quickly fire up Altirra for a quick look at what the game looked like and get a general feel while still on ebay.

Frankie · February 21, 2017

My Percom AT88 SPD drive with an extra slave drive.

fujidude · February 21, 2017

I personally find a complete disconnect when sat infront my my I7 6700k, 16Gb Ram, and nvidia 1070 PC when using Altirra. It just feels so empty and fake.

Plus, if you want reliability then why not get a SIO2SD device ? They're fast, reliable, and you can store every single Atari game/util on a small SDCard.

You can't beat sat infront of the REAL thing, a decent CRT monitor, a decent joystick, and a SIO2SD device. I have a 800XL, SIO2SD, 1010 Tape Deck and 1050 Disk Drive - if required. Philips 8833 Mk1 CRT, TAC2 & Competition Pro microswitch joystick, and emulation just doesn't come close to the experience of the real thing.

I find Altirra good for times when I'm on ebay and I see a tape or disk game I have never heard of, I can then quickly fire up Altirra for a quick look at what the game looked like and get a general feel while still on ebay.

I think emulation beats it because I don't even have room for all of that; not to mention I lost my old gear to water damage anyway.

+mytek · February 21, 2017

I think emulation beats it because I don't even have room for all of that; not to mention I lost my old gear to water damage anyway.

Best of both worlds...

http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/atari800/

- Michael

Keatah · February 21, 2017

I personally find a complete disconnect when sat infront my my I7 6700k, 16Gb Ram, and nvidia 1070 PC when using Altirra. It just feels so empty and fake.

Plus, if you want reliability then why not get a SIO2SD device ? They're fast, reliable, and you can store every single Atari game/util on a small SDCard.

You can't beat sat infront of the REAL thing, a decent CRT monitor, a decent joystick, and a SIO2SD device. I have a 800XL, SIO2SD, 1010 Tape Deck and 1050 Disk Drive - if required. Philips 8833 Mk1 CRT, TAC2 & Competition Pro microswitch joystick, and emulation just doesn't come close to the experience of the real thing.

I find Altirra good for times when I'm on ebay and I see a tape or disk game I have never heard of, I can then quickly fire up Altirra for a quick look at what the game looked like and get a general feel while still on ebay.

I think emulation beats it because I don't even have room for all of that; not to mention I lost my old gear to water damage anyway.

True there is some disconnect. In the modern microprocessor there's several layers to go through to get to the microcode. And then you have a complex OS with a million layers of API - just say'n. So yes there is a bit of a blandness, an "appliance-y" feel to it, as opposed to opening up a gearbox and seeing the shapes of gears and things meshing and moving.

The richness in the i7 and PC ecosphere (for me) comes from all the software applications and not the hardware. Much of the hardware and bare-metal feeling has been abstracted away. And that's a good thing. Instead of coaxing bulky and recalcitrant hardware to do things, you play in software.

The richness of the Atari environment is captured nicely by Altirra and all the options. The bare-metal part perhaps less so. Just the nature of the beast. In many ways it is so much better though. So many amenities (gosh I'm tired of saying that)!

Furthermore, I can get free tune-ups and checks every now and then with updates straight from the developer. Make sure my virtual hardware is running at speed and all that.That's cool. To do this with real hardware would mean several days on the bench.

---

I lost most of my Atari gear to a bunch of crazies (zombies for all practical purposes) and a variety of other natural and man-made causes. Theft. Stuff mysteriously disappearing. Stuff sold off. Trades. Shit like that.

john_rm_1970 · February 21, 2017

I think emulation beats it because I don't even have room for all of that; not to mention I lost my old gear to water damage anyway.

So, just because YOU don't have room for it then thats a reason for emulation to beat it ? What pure nonsense. Do you live in a shed ?

Altirra is good, but you can NEVER beat the real thing.

fujidude · February 21, 2017

So, just because YOU don't have room for it then thats a reason for emulation to beat it ? What pure nonsense. Do you live in a shed ?

Altirra is good, but you can NEVER beat the real thing.

So... just because you think the real thing can never quite be beat, then that means it is a universal fact for everyone? Sorry, try again. That's a fairly arrogant attitude. First of all, it isn't even a fact to start with; it's only an opinion that you have. It is shared by many, but there are also many who are in disagreement too. Because it is a matter of taste or opinion, that leads to the next point; there is no right / wrong, correct / incorrect, superior / inferior position on it. It's a personal preference. Please have some respect for others to have their own, along with their own reasons for it.

I respect your right to your opinion and preferences. I'm not going to try and convince you why your preference is bad and mine is good, because it's just preference. I will however, raise my hand and interject though when someone else does that about their own position. You for example. I understand where you are coming from, it's just that it isn't the same for me. I'll throw out my reasons why I have a different take. Just take them for what they are; my reasons in my situation. I'm totally fine that you like what you like best.

Okay, so here's why emulation of the Atari8 is a better option than the real thing for me:

FACTS

I no longer own my (once substantial) hardware collection.
I can't justify spending the time and money to obtain another set of hardware.
Even if I had all my old stuff, or someone was willing to give me replacements for free; I do not have the room for it to be set up in what I consider a properly usable way.

PREFERENCES (though it is a fact that I have these preferences, and they are just as valid as anyone Else's preferences):

I really, really like my mechanical PC keyboard. It kicks the crap out of even the very best A8 keyboard (the 1200XL IMHO). I've used nearly all of them at one time or another, with the exception of the 65XE, 800XE & XEGS.
I prefer modern hi-res flat LCD screen monitors to the lo-res CRTs of the A8 era. So you may find this fact surprising; strictly based on the technologies involved, I think CRTs can offer a superior picture to LCD, provided the tube is of high quality, has a flat (both X & Y) display, high resolution and refresh rates, and is in proper calibration. I think any LCD would have a tough time looking better than that to me. The problem though is size and the tendency for calibration to be crept out of over time. Of course the ultimate in display tech thus far I think is OLED.
Emulation such as Altirra, let me "use" all of the best hardware I used to have, plus just about anything else my 8-bit heart desires! All while using no additional storage space (or any storage space at all actually).
Software development; doing it on the real thing is absolutely silly in comparison to the advantages of doing so in emulation.
Speed. I can crack up the clock (way up to 20MHz) on my emulated A8, or God forbid, engage "Warp" speed and let the A8 run as fast as my host system can run it. This is useful for when the A8 is busy processing a lengthy task. Oh yeah, and peripherals are also mega fast as well.
Lastly, back in the day when I was actively using my A8 hardware, I would have jizzed myself if I could have had Altirra like I have it now.

john_rm_1970 · February 21, 2017

Yawn, you obviously live in a cardboard box, and you're poor.

Here is a FACT for you. emulation will NEVER beat the real thing. Ever.

You cannot recreate the feeling of using the real thing, holding the real controllers, while using a device, CRT, it was meant to use, not some LCD TV rubbish.

You like Altirra ? fine, but don't go posting shite about emulation is better, it's not. As for the rest of your shite, I couldn't be arsed to read that shite.

PhoenixMoonPatrol · February 21, 2017

LOL

Emulation is awesome. Hardware is too but when you own too much of it upkeep is a pain.

gilsaluki · February 21, 2017

I have 99.99% of all my Atari stuff (800/XL/XE, 2600, 7800, Lynx). But I did sale a 400 in perfect condition for a fiver (I got it at a thrift store for $2.99). Now you cannot find any Atari hardware at thrifts. Crap!. I am a pack rat (to my wife's chagrin), so I have all the Antics and most of the Analog mags, and others as well. I still read through them occasionally.

kiwilove · February 22, 2017

Emulation is simply there for those who want to make use of it.

I would not like to rate emulation as being 'better' than the original old hardware - and convenience is more apt to describe it?

And there is some irony in using modern hardware to have it emulating what is regarded by others as an obsolete computer system.

That you have a choice - is better for everyone.

I personally would not like to be stuck back in the 80s' - though there's something to being attached to the 400/800/etc hardware - that there's always the potential there, to see what could have been - had the resources etc would put into it, to see what was really possible to do with it. It can't do the impossible but maybe it can be pushed to it's limit(s) for those prepared to do so...

Harvey

Timothy Kline · February 22, 2017

I think the topic title says it all.

I don't think I've ever heard someone say that they wished they hadn't got rid of a particular Atari emulator. :grin:

But we have an entire thread full of people talking about the real hardware that impressed itself on our hearts and minds through a generation of advancing technology. We were there when you didn't have to click on pictograms on a screen like we do now. We programmed our systems, we played games endlessly with them. We were the groundbreakers of BBSers long before the days of "You've Got Mail" when you connected to AOL.

We experienced a significant moment in computing power as well. Look how swiftly home computers went from 8-bit to 32-bit. The 16-bit stage passed so swiftly.

And we were there for that, too. So, in my mind, it makes perfect sense to lose or give up something that connects us to that period in our lives. In my case, it was the Atari XL and 130XE. I passed up the whole ST and Amiga competition and opted for a PC clone because I could see that's where things would go next for home computing. Didn't make it any easier to sell my Atari hardware... everything except my Atari book collection. THAT I have kept from the very beginning. Sure, one day my Atari collection that I have rebuilt and expanded on this past year will cease to function. And I obviously have emulators like Altirra and Atari++ but without the books teaching me all the things I can do with Atari, real or virtual, I'd be lost.

--Tim

fujidude · February 22, 2017

Yawn, you obviously live in a cardboard box, and you're poor.

Here is a FACT for you. emulation will NEVER beat the real thing. Ever.

You cannot recreate the feeling of using the real thing, holding the real controllers, while using a device, CRT, it was meant to use, not some LCD TV rubbish.

You like Altirra ? fine, but don't go posting shite about emulation is better, it's not. As for the rest of your shite, I couldn't be arsed to read that shite.

First you suggest I live in a shed. Now you call me poor and say I live in a cardboard box. Then you say that my polite, friendly, and reasoned postings on this are shit.

You're wrong to think your opinion is a fact. You're wrong about all the other playground inspired vitriol also. But I'll tell you this; I would rather be sodding poor in money, than to be so bankrupt in personality as you.

Good day.

Keatah · February 22, 2017

I think both camps can be right. If you're looking for the touchy-feely vibes of real hardware then that is what's required. Real hardware. With all the advantages and disadvantages which accompany it. With time and age the disadvantages could outweigh the advantages.

Emulation for me was(is) like a dream come true. The dream of an all in one machine that could run any piece of 70's and 80's software in one box. On top of that it's a second chance to enjoy the ambiance of the Atari Experience like I had when I was a kid. Only it's better because emulation brings an unprecedented level of reliability and convenience factors to the gig.

While I can appreciate a 70's wood hutch and reading room alcove decked out with 8-bit Atari material.. Real hardware is too much of a burden for me and my style of working because there's too many systems I want to set up. Real hardware can't do what I want. So I decided to focus on a kick-ass emulation station. (Never mind the worn out cliche.)

Keatah · February 22, 2017

Didn't make it any easier to sell my Atari hardware... everything except my Atari book collection. THAT I have kept from the very beginning. Sure, one day my Atari collection that I have rebuilt and expanded on this past year will cease to function. And I obviously have emulators like Altirra and Atari++ but without the books teaching me all the things I can do with Atari, real or virtual, I'd be lost.

--Tim

Apple II had the best manuals. The Atari 8-bit lineup was right behind it at a close #2.

Manuals and books can add immensely to the emulation experience. Make no mistake on that issue.

Rob Mitchell · February 22, 2017

The 32k board I built in 1982 to expand my 800 to 48k

+FujiSkunk · February 22, 2017

Yawn, you obviously live in a cardboard box, and you're poor.

Here is a FACT for you. emulation will NEVER beat the real thing. Ever.

You cannot recreate the feeling of using the real thing, holding the real controllers, while using a device, CRT, it was meant to use, not some LCD TV rubbish.

You like Altirra ? fine, but don't go posting shite about emulation is better, it's not. As for the rest of your shite, I couldn't be arsed to read that shite.

How old are you again?

Keatah · February 22, 2017

Thing with emulation is it is different. Not a lot different, but different. Not bad, not good. Just.

Just like the variances in the auras surrounding the 400/800 vs the XL vs the XE series of computers. Each one has a unique personality due to the differences in hardware, how they power up, how they look, how the keyboard sounds, things you can and cannot do.. connectors.. things like that.

Well whadda'ya know? Emulator Altirra is yet but another computer in the line-up. It happens to be virtual, and based off of 32/64 bit hardware. It has tweaks that aren't found on original hardware, and likewise the reverse.

When all is said and done there's a good solid overlap between real and virtual. Enough that they're interchangeable in the vast majority of situations.

+kheller2 · February 22, 2017

I wish I hadn't given up moderator privileges to my own thread.

Can we please take the BareMetal vs Virtual Hardware conversation up in another new thread?

fujidude · February 22, 2017

I wish I hadn't given up moderator privileges to my own thread.

Can we please take the BareMetal vs Virtual Hardware conversation up in another new thread?

Hey bud, making a thread about regrets of what you got rid of in this kind of setting (classic gaming/computing site), is very likely to bring out stories about lost classic hardware. That in turn, just begs discussion about ways to recapture the value that was lost. Emulation is one of the most accessible ways to do that, so it's very natural to be discussed. It should have been pretty easy to anticipate that.

BTW: Being a topic starter does not make one a topic owner. The topics are owned by the community in the participation sense, and by Albert in the administration sense. If you want control of what people can and cannot discuss and where, you should start your own forum site. Then you would be appropriate in calling it "my" site etc. I'm sorry if that comes across harsh, it's not meant to be, really. It's not unnoticed that you are politely asking though, so thanks for that. But I hope you will accept that casual, social discussion often meanders and takes some of its own turns, and doesn't conform to the rigidness that formal or official discussion does. Now I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm here for a casual and social experience, and not a formal one.

Keatah · February 22, 2017

Having topics that drift away from the original subject is part of being creative. Many threads do this. At the same time I think that certain threads should stay on-topic, like ones related to programming or troubleshooting issues. And those tend to do exactly that be default.

My continued evangelical rants about emulaterzz and such may inspire someone to try out an emulator for real and discover the rich debugging environment. That in turn may inspire them to create the next Tempest or Missile Command. Job done! Ohh if it were only so.

In the meantime, at one time I wished I never ever ever got rid of any of my early videogames. None of them. But, now today, with different focus and renewed interest it isn't so bad. And having done so I would not have made my all-in-one box. Trade one thing for the other and hope it turns out good.

Trivia: I still have the TIA from my original VCS puchased in September 1977. It's the grey AMI package version. It seems to be the only thing of Atari hardware I have. Maybe someday I'll get period hardware and fire that sucker up.