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Kickstarter -- New System Shock game


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Except for the part where one of the stretch goals is turning it into an RPG.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-01-how-will-system-shocks-reboot-differ-from-the-original

 

This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.

 

I don't really see any reason to be opposed to RPG elements on principle. After all, the sequel to this game did them and did them quite well. This is a remake, not an update.

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I don't really see any reason to be opposed to RPG elements on principle. After all, the sequel to this game did them and did them quite well. This is a remake, not an update.

 

This remake was originally marketed as strictly a "remaster"-- the original game, but with graphics and controls updated to modern standards. Many people were very happy about this (see the comments on the teaser trailer), because System Shock is one of the most influential, highly-regarded PC games ever... and is also infamous for its cumbersome, pre-mouslook controls. All they had to do was stick to the original design and reimplement it.

 

But no, this newbie game studio now thinks they can do better than the legendary Looking Glass. Original System Shock played perfectly well as a first-person Metroidvania. There is no reason to jump on the "make everything an RPG" bandwagon. So in addition to denying modern audiences the opportunity to play LGS's original design, they'll mostly likely f*ck it up as an RPG. Because a good, properly-balanced RPG is hard. Even SS2's RPG system is generally acknowledged to be a bit of an unbalanced mess, and that was coming from the guys who did Ultima Underworld.

 

So hopefully now you understand why any reasonable person should be opposed to System Shock as an RPG.

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This remake was originally marketed as strictly a "remaster"-- the original game, but with graphics and controls updated to modern standards. Many people were very happy about this (see the comments on the teaser trailer), because System Shock is one of the most influential, highly-regarded PC games ever... and is also infamous for its cumbersome, pre-mouslook controls. All they had to do was stick to the original design and reimplement it.

 

But no, this newbie game studio now thinks they can do better than the legendary Looking Glass. Original System Shock played perfectly well as a first-person Metroidvania. There is no reason to jump on the "make everything an RPG" bandwagon. So in addition to denying modern audiences the opportunity to play LGS's original design, they'll mostly likely f*ck it up as an RPG. Because a good, properly-balanced RPG is hard. Even SS2's RPG system is generally acknowledged to be a bit of an unbalanced mess, and that was coming from the guys who did Ultima Underworld.

 

So hopefully now you understand why any reasonable person should be opposed to System Shock as an RPG.

 

Even if that's true....which in this early stage I think is panicing....there's still Enhanced System Shock that came out last year.

 

Besides, that 'RPG' goal is a perhaps unconfirmed and unstated stretch goal which I'm not sure they will make, so no need to worry about it until it happens. :)

 

I do agree with you about the love for the original SS, though, and I enjoyed SS2 also even if it hasn't aged as well.

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Guest LiqMat

 

This remake was originally marketed as strictly a "remaster"-- the original game, but with graphics and controls updated to modern standards. Many people were very happy about this (see the comments on the teaser trailer), because System Shock is one of the most influential, highly-regarded PC games ever... and is also infamous for its cumbersome, pre-mouslook controls. All they had to do was stick to the original design and reimplement it.

 

But no, this newbie game studio now thinks they can do better than the legendary Looking Glass. Original System Shock played perfectly well as a first-person Metroidvania. There is no reason to jump on the "make everything an RPG" bandwagon. So in addition to denying modern audiences the opportunity to play LGS's original design, they'll mostly likely f*ck it up as an RPG. Because a good, properly-balanced RPG is hard. Even SS2's RPG system is generally acknowledged to be a bit of an unbalanced mess, and that was coming from the guys who did Ultima Underworld.

 

So hopefully now you understand why any reasonable person should be opposed to System Shock as an RPG.

 

I thought some of the people involved with this were from Looking Glass and also worked on the original SS. What I worry about, like others have said, is this version will be polluted with all these backers names and possible pictures on the wall, etc. I hope they do it in a tasteful way as to not ruin the atmosphere of the game. I backed the $150 big box. I do not need my name in the game that no one gives two craps about anyway.

Edited by LiqMat
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So a new update on the campaign went out today, which addressed the most common questions including what Zylon was concerned about....RPG elements.

 

Happy 4th of July! Jason here again. What an amazing week this has been! Thank you all so much for your continued support. Once again, you folks are great! :-D

As most of you have seen, the volume of feedback we’ve been getting has been HUGE. We’ve all been reading through a lot of your questions and concerns, and we’re doing our best to keep up with all of it. In case we missed your question or comment, please go to our Reddit forums and post there if someone hasn’t already asked your question. That’s the best place for us to organize and respond to feedback right now: https://www.reddit.com/r/systemshock/

Common Questions

Before getting into patch stuff, I’d like to quickly answer the biggest questions I’ve been seeing:

  • Pixelated / low-res textures - In the current demo, some textures look “pixelated” up close. This actually has nothing to do with their texture resolution. Before video cards became commonplace in the late 90s, textures did not get filtered. We’re doing the same thing to have a bit of a retro touch. In the next demo update, we’ve switched from no filtering to trilinear. Some screenshots are below in the patch preview section
  • Orchestral vs. electronic music - We’re going to have an audio update written by Jonathan, our audio engineer and composer, to go over this stuff in more detail some time this week. Until then, the short answer is that the final score will definitely be more cyberpunk than just straight orchestral. Also, the full orchestra stretch goal will not change the music style. It will make all orchestral elements crisper while maintaining the electronic pieces.
  • Story / plot changes - We won’t be deviating from the main story or plot from the original. We will be rewriting most of the text (well, when I say “we”, I actually mean my good friend, Mr. Chris Avellone). The overall story will be the same, but we might change some details/wording here and there for the sake of consistency and pacing.
  • RPG elements - We understand this is a pretty vague term and has been confusing to backers. The original System Shock was ahead of its time and introduced a lot of new elements to gaming. We want to preserve that innovation and present a game we feel modern gamers will enjoy. Our goal is to have the gameplay somewhere between System Shock 1 and System Shock 2, with sprinkles of BioShock on top (rich melee attacks and ranged weapons, vending machines, upgrades, and damage types). If there’s enough of a demand, we’ll add a “Classic Mode” to one of the stretch goals that disables all RPG stuff as an option.
  • Engine - Our pre-alpha demo is in Unity, and that is the technology the team has been using for the past several months. However, we are familiar with other engines and are open to exploring options that make sense. Changing engines during a project is a pretty big risk and not a choice to be taken lightly. At the end of the day, we will use the technology we feel is best suited to deliver the highest quality game with the resources we have.

Right now the campaign has slowed some from the major shot it had when started, at about 790k. But that's normal for KS campaigns.

I'll reserve judgement on the RPG aspects. It sounds okay to me as I love the BioShock games.

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I tried the Pre-Alpha demo out a few days ago and tried it again today seeing this thread- I was and still am stuck looking at the ground spinning in circles after starting the game, so I didn't exactly get to play the game. I will say though, I had a good bit of fun with the original two games - if I can get the stupid thing to work right and I like it, I may think about backing the kickstarter.

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Ther

 

I tried the Pre-Alpha demo out a few days ago and tried it again today seeing this thread- I was and still am stuck looking at the ground spinning in circles after starting the game, so I didn't exactly get to play the game. I will say though, I had a good bit of fun with the original two games - if I can get the stupid thing to work right and I like it, I may think about backing the kickstarter.

 

There's a new version of the demo coming out soon also which will address some bugs and issues people had, hopefully that one will work for you.

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Right now the campaign has slowed some from the major shot it had when started, at about 790k. But that's normal for KS campaigns.

 

I may wind up bumping up my contribution in the coming weeks.

Truthfully though I'm pretty sure it'll get funded. It's like 90% funded and has 3 weeks to go. I think a lot of people hold off till the last minute and make sure it's going to get funded before taking the plunge.

As far as adding RPG elements, I'm all for it. I wouldn't mind seeing a "classic" mode for the die hard fans though, anything that helps keep grown men from whining on internet forums is an awesome addition in my book.

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Guest LiqMat

 

I may wind up bumping up my contribution in the coming weeks.

Truthfully though I'm pretty sure it'll get funded. It's like 90% funded and has 3 weeks to go. I think a lot of people hold off till the last minute and make sure it's going to get funded before taking the plunge.

As far as adding RPG elements, I'm all for it. I wouldn't mind seeing a "classic" mode for the die hard fans though, anything that helps keep grown men from whining on internet forums is an awesome addition in my book.

 

2016 has seen a sharp decline in video game pledges on Kickstarter according to this analysis after people getting stung with bad projects. So seeing this get funded at all is good although I would like to see this reach its stretch goals as well. It definitely is slowing down a bit.

 

http://www.polygon.com/2016/7/2/12087460/kickstarter-declines-2016-funding

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Newsdee, on 05 Jul 2016 - 07:16 AM, said:

There's a linked article that's also very good reading:

http://www.openrice.com/en/hongkong/r-chee-kei-central-guangdong-congee-r95900/photos

 

 

Did you mean to link to photos of a Chinese place there? :lol:

 

But yes, that's very good advise about Kickstarter. I've had good luck with games I've backed -- a couple refunded in part, a couple more that are limbo -- but everything has come out, although often late (which is the norm and I totally understand). I do some research before backing a game and never back more then $20. In fact, this game here and the Ultima one are the ONLY ones I've broken that rule with.

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I tried the Pre-Alpha demo out a few days ago and tried it again today seeing this thread- I was and still am stuck looking at the ground spinning in circles after starting the game, so I didn't exactly get to play the game. I will say though, I had a good bit of fun with the original two games - if I can get the stupid thing to work right and I like it, I may think about backing the kickstarter.

 

Don't know if this may be the trouble you're having, but I have run into some games not liking a controller plugged in. There were a couple games in the past where I had that issue, unplugged my controller and the issue went away. Of course it may not be the issue you are having, just a thought though.

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Another update was sent out to backers today, mostly concerning sound and music -- Also the campaign is at 830k of 900k needed to get funded.

 

System Shock Music & Sound Design plans

Hey everyone! I'm Jonathan Peros; I'm handling the audio efforts on System Shock. I've been working with Nightdive Studios on this demo since it started. The Shock games have always had some of the most immersive sounds for its time and it's been my job to make sure that our game hits the same benchmark of quality.

Just so you guys know where we are coming from, I'd like to start by posting the "Purpose" section for the audio from our own internal audio design documents that we refer to when making decisions:

The Shock series’ greatest strength was always the intense atmosphere present in the game; the isolation, the tension, even the outright horror. The purpose of the score of System Shock is, more than anything, to strengthen the immersion and atmosphere of the game. Secondary goals of the score are to structure the narrative and represent characters/environments, increase tension in extreme stress (such as combat), and using diegetic music in the world to tell the story of Citadel Station through its own environment.

Plenty of restraint will have to be used on the score, to keep the atmosphere of the game intact. It is important to avoid a more arcadey, extreme approach like other games (see DOOM), but there are points in the game in which it could fit, if used sparingly.

We have received a lot of feedback when it comes to the balance of electronic and orchestral elements in the soundtrack, and fans who feel very strongly about both directions. I'd like to clear things up and put fans' minds at ease. We are planning to have many more electronic elements in the score for the final game than we have in the demo. While we feel that porting the original music over would run counter to our vision, we don't intend to lose the Cyberpunk feeling of the game by neglecting to reflect that Cyberpunkness in the music. We believe it is possible to retain a strong atmosphere, while incorporating many synthetic elements in the soundtrack. Check out the first minute of my Intro remix with zircon for reference:

https://soundcloud.com/nightdivestudios/system-shock-soundtrack-zircon-jonathan-peros-ethical-constraints-removed-ss-intro-remix

We believe it is possible to blend these elements with orchestral elements to great effect. While the synthetic elements provide a great setting for Citadel Station and make the game feel like a System Shock game, orchestral layers can provide a level of emotional tension and immersion that is more primal and psychological when it comes to creepy atmospheres. It is a delicate balance, but one that we think will give System Shock a very unique flavor in contrast to most modern FPS games - something that is both very "System Shock", but also stands today as a score for a modern game.

We also have plans to bring back old System Shock music as often as we can while still keeping it in the atmosphere in the station. Some clever fans have found an example of this in our game files: the original music for the elevator, redone to sound like music that would actually be coming from the speakers on the walls of an elevator:

https://soundcloud.com/nightdivestudios/system-shock-ost-elevator

As much as I want to talk more about our musical plans, I've got plenty that I want to talk about on the sound design front as well!

Many of the same principles apply to the soundscapes of the game as the music. More than anything, we want to promote a strong oppressive atmosphere (have I said that word enough?) for the player. This is where the old System Shock games (System Shock 2 in particular) really excelled. The sound design in the old games were as much a part of the emotional experience for the player as the music. We intend for the same in System Shock: Heavy and oppressive atmospheres, the feelings of isolation, pacings and breaks from the oppression where the player can take a breath (like the elevator) before being buried under the weight of Citadel Station and SHODAN again.

Some of the sounds in the demo are very good and some are temporary sounds, standing in until we reach full production and we can replace them. I'd like to share a few plans about our foley system, to give some insight into our dedication to sell a compelling experience to our players. Once the game reaches a point in production where we can get a full list of all of the foley sounds needed, we are going to have full custom foley for the game (no library sounds). We intend to mic this foley at different angles and distances, so that at the game's runtime we can dynamically mix these elements for the player (i.e. as a mutant is further away, you hear more of the far mics in the mix than the close mics and vice-versa). We are planning systems in which the foley responds very dynamically and closely with the engine to make the sound fit exactly what is going on in the game, both in sounds and mix. Things like speed, acceleration, movement type, changes of direction, etc, will all impact what the player hears during gameplay, making the player feel like this is actually their body. This is only one small system out of dozens and dozens that we are planning or have already created and implemented, and I hope that this helps to demonstrate our commitment toward making the sound work for the player to make the game as compelling and immersive as is available in games today.

A few people have asked about VO for System Shock. Yes, Terri Brosius is reprising her role as SHODAN, and yes, she still sounds spot-on for the part after 20 years. Just listen to her voice in the Kickstarter video! We have also been working with some new talent for the project. In the demo you heard Rachael Messer, a newcomer to the Shock series, acting wonderfully as Rebecca Lansing. The original System Shock was one of the first games with full VO, and in the same vein we don't want to settle for anything less than exceptional acting in System Shock.

System Shock Remix Album (stretch goal)

Lastly, I'm very excited to talk about the remix album stretch goal for the project. We have a roster of talented musicians on board to help us remix the original System Shock 1 OST.

The first artist that I would like to reveal that we are working with is none other than Robotkid (Josh Randall) of the original System Shock 2 music team. We know that there are a ton of fans of the System Shock 2 music and of Robotkid's style throughout it.

I have been working with the programming department in the game to try to get this remix album in the game as an alternative or unlockable mode for the game. Nothing confirmed on this yet, as it is a lot of programming work to make it happen, but do know that we are trying to make this work for people who want a more nostalgic experience than a modern one.

We are going to continue to announce more musical artists that are taking part in the remix album as the project gets closer to being funded at that stretch level! Please help share the project around so that we can reach that goal and give you guys this awesome soundtrack!

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  • 2 weeks later...

An update that will be of interest to people without an Xbox One or a Gaming PC....

 

When we launched this Kickstarter, supporting PS4 was a possibility, but we hadn’t started talking to Sony just yet about it. We were all focused on wrapping the demo up and prepping the Kickstarter. We already had strong contacts at Microsoft from prior projects, so supporting XboxOne was less of an unknown. After we saw the overwhelming demand for PS4, we reshuffled our priorities and focused on talking to Sony about making that happen. After a few weeks and lotttts of emails, we are officially on track for bringing System Shock to the PS4! No stretch goal for it. We’re adding it in as a thank you to our backers that put their faith in us.

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Just put in a pledge for the Big Box.. Hope they can meet some of those higher stretch goals, but I'm skeptical.. Would love to see things like a full orchestral score.

 

..Al

Ha that was what I was hoping for also. I'm a sucker for game and movie scores.

Seems too far out of reach. I wonder if they will include it as an add on item?

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